American Gun Laws

[Senkaku]

It always bothers me when people say they have their gun to "protect themselves". Are you carrying it everywhere you go? If you have other people living in your house, or children, are you just leaving it out so you can access it quickly? If it's in a gun safe at home or locked in a compartment in your car, it's probably not gonna be much help. Sure, after getting mugged or something you might think "well if I'd have a gun I could've shown that fellow what for, hmmm?", but the reality is even if you own a gun you're not gonna be carrying it around with you everywhere, because doing so is not just impractical but also paranoid and a bit dangerous.

Why would it bother you so? Why does a law enforcement officer carry one? (just to preempt) why is his/her life more important than that of another that isn't law enforcement?

What a stupid analogy and a completely false equivalency. Your average LEO is not your average civilian. They carry them because they are law enforcement and need force to apply the law in some cases (force that is supposed to, in most cases, be more than your average petty thief or dickhead making a scene in a restaurant is going to be packing). They're supposed to maintain public order, defend the peace, blah blah blah, and you don't do that by strolling along with a pocket full of posies. Your average person, meanwhile, is probably going about their lives relying on said officers for most of their security. If in a perfect world the officers are the only ones who have guns, citizens are probably gonna end up safer (as, by the way, will cops).
If we're doing this equivalency, I might as well ask why every state in the Union doesn't have an independently controlled nuclear deterrent. Are some states and by extension their citizens' lives more important than others? It's a completely different subject.

Does someone who has fire extinguishers/smoke-fire detectors, in the kitchen/garage/ other areas, make one paranoid of a fire?

How often are smoke detectors picked up by children and then used to accidentally shoot a parent? A smoke detector is not a gun. Neither is a fire extinguisher.

I usually do carry where I go, and where acceptable. Yes, I do have other people living here, and yes there are children. Currently my sidearm is out, the rest are in a safe.

I'm glad to hear you have a safe. People who are responsible and keep their guns in a safe don't bother me terribly. As for "where acceptable", I would personally take this to mean if you're going to a cruddy neighborhood or maybe going there at night or something like that (not, for example, taking public transportation or going for a run in broad daylight or going to a party or a restaurant).

If having your gun out makes you feel safer, that's fine (though I struggle to imagine the constant concern about one's safety that it would take to constantly have a gun with you, and yet maintaining, with that level of concern, enough sense of normalcy that you don't shoot the first person who you hear walking outside the door or on the sidewalk). Since I operate under a different mindset I think than a lot of people like yourself who have a gun with them everywhere, I would say that it would make me uncomfortable to be around someone who I knew had a gun just basically on them just because "you never know". I don't think it's unfair for me to want you to be pretty well trained- and maybe you are, but a lot of people simply aren't.

I carry based on the theory of, its best to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

And I have a theory that throwing a gun, even a concealed one (or sometimes especially a concealed one) into literally any situation just adds a variable, however tiny, that could lead to a lot of bad things.

I train, and take firearm defensive classes. Recognize when its best to just leave an area that might become confrontational and remove oneself and reduce the chance of getting into a defensive shooting, but sometimes that chance is reduced to the point one may have to fight.

At least you train and shit. The bar for getting a concealed carry permit is alarmingly low.

[Fanosolia]

You know random question before I got to bed... how effective would that actually be? I'll be honest this sort of thought has made me reconsider some of my positions with guns.

a lot more effective than waiting for a bullet in your head. At the very least you would cause panic allowing people to escape as the shooters will be to busy taking cover or returning fire.

Even by some miraculous tragedy you missed and even killed 10 freindly people, it would have been worth it to kill the shooters considering the death toll.

Clearly you're more optimistic on it minimizing (because lets face it, that's what hardening the soft targets is doing) the death toll than I am. I don't deny it's better to be able to defend than not I just don't see it.

You know random question before I got to bed... how effective would that actually be? I'll be honest this sort of thought has made me reconsider some of my positions with guns.

As in, becoming in favour of them? If you are that's good, because I've never really reasoned with someone on guns because people usually ignore what I explain to them because they're so stubborn XD

Well, it's not because of you unfortunately it's a fusion of people on this forum and reading something about the united states' second amendment being the original "open source anti-terrorism law." trust me, I didn't get this way over night XD

More just in the bans seem unnessary, remove financial barriers one way or another and let people carry. I'm no NRA member (literally can't really), and you defently don't come to me for gun policy, but the ideas are warming up to me, yes.

[North Calaveras]

Why would it bother you so? Why does a law enforcement officer carry one? (just to preempt) why is his/her life more important than that of another that isn't law enforcement?

What a stupid analogy and a completely false equivalency. Your average LEO is not your average civilian. They carry them because they are law enforcement and need force to apply the law in some cases (force that is supposed to, in most cases, be more than your average petty thief or dickhead making a scene in a restaurant is going to be packing). They're supposed to maintain public order, defend the peace, blah blah blah, and you don't do that by strolling along with a pocket full of posies. Your average person, meanwhile, is probably going about their lives relying on said officers for most of their security. If in a perfect world the officers are the only ones who have guns, citizens are probably gonna end up safer (as, by the way, will cops).
If we're doing this equivalency, I might as well ask why every state in the Union doesn't have an independently controlled nuclear deterrent. Are some states and by extension their citizens' lives more important than others? It's a completely different subject.

Does someone who has fire extinguishers/smoke-fire detectors, in the kitchen/garage/ other areas, make one paranoid of a fire?

How often are smoke detectors picked up by children and then used to accidentally shoot a parent? A smoke detector is not a gun. Neither is a fire extinguisher.

I usually do carry where I go, and where acceptable. Yes, I do have other people living here, and yes there are children. Currently my sidearm is out, the rest are in a safe.

I'm glad to hear you have a safe. People who are responsible and keep their guns in a safe don't bother me terribly. As for "where acceptable", I would personally take this to mean if you're going to a cruddy neighborhood or maybe going there at night or something like that (not, for example, taking public transportation or going for a run in broad daylight or going to a party or a restaurant).

If having your gun out makes you feel safer, that's fine (though I struggle to imagine the constant concern about one's safety that it would take to constantly have a gun with you, and yet maintaining, with that level of concern, enough sense of normalcy that you don't shoot the first person who you hear walking outside the door or on the sidewalk). Since I operate under a different mindset I think than a lot of people like yourself who have a gun with them everywhere, I would say that it would make me uncomfortable to be around someone who I knew had a gun just basically on them just because "you never know". I don't think it's unfair for me to want you to be pretty well trained- and maybe you are, but a lot of people simply aren't.

I carry based on the theory of, its best to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

And I have a theory that throwing a gun, even a concealed one (or sometimes especially a concealed one) into literally any situation just adds a variable, however tiny, that could lead to a lot of bad things.

I train, and take firearm defensive classes. Recognize when its best to just leave an area that might become confrontational and remove oneself and reduce the chance of getting into a defensive shooting, but sometimes that chance is reduced to the point one may have to fight.

At least you train and shit. The bar for getting a concealed carry permit is alarmingly low.

Um, no, as law enforcement I can tell you that's false. The supreme court has even ruled it's not police responsibility to protect you, not to mention we respond to incidents most of the time not stop them during the event unless that person is very lucky and we are nearby. Also, civilians are subject to the same threats as police, so that goes out the window for you.

[Senkaku]

If the United Kingdom, along with the vast majority of the developed world for that matter, can function perfectly fine without allowing its citizens to buy machine guns at the local supermarket why can't the United States? So what if I don't have the freedom to walk into my local Waitrose with a loaded assault rifle strapped to my back? The fact that many people in the United States actually see this as a necessity to protect themselves only proves to me that unrestricted gun ownership is an utterly ludicrous concept!

Many people live just fine in places like arizona to, with guns, so your point?

And the United States overall has one of the highest rate of gun deaths in the developed world. I think the point is that the fact that you even feel that you need to carry a gun everywhere on your person at all times to feel safe maybe points to deeper issues, either with the country, or you, or both.

If the United Kingdom, along with the vast majority of the developed world for that matter, can function perfectly fine without allowing its citizens to buy machine guns at the local supermarket why can't the United States? So what if I don't have the freedom to walk into my local Waitrose with a loaded assault rifle strapped to my back? The fact that many people in the United States actually see this as a necessity to protect themselves only proves to me that unrestricted gun ownership is an utterly ludicrous concept!

You can't buy machine guns at the local supermarket.

An exaggeration, to be sure, but even Walmart sells guns. Between smaller gun shops, Walmart and other big companies that also sell guns, gun companies themselves, and gun shows, guns are readily available to most Americans with fairly minimal effort if they want one.

[North Calaveras]

Many people live just fine in places like arizona to, with guns, so your point?

And the United States overall has one of the highest rate of gun deaths in the developed world. I think the point is that the fact that you even feel that you need to carry a gun everywhere on your person at all times to feel safe maybe points to deeper issues, either with the country, or you, or both.

You can't buy machine guns at the local supermarket.

An exaggeration, to be sure, but even Walmart sells guns. Between smaller gun shops, Walmart and other big companies that also sell guns, gun companies themselves, and gun shows, guns are readily available to most Americans with fairly minimal effort if they want one.

people carry guns because it is out right in this nation and we defend our rights, just as we defend freedom of speech.

Why would you care if walmart sells guns? They are properly licensed by the government. Maybe your paranoid, sounds like you think everyone with a gun is out to get oyu.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You can't buy machine guns at the local supermarket.

An exaggeration, to be sure, but even Walmart sells guns. Between smaller gun shops, Walmart and other big companies that also sell guns, gun companies themselves, and gun shows, guns are readily available to most Americans with fairly minimal effort if they want one.

After having gone through more than a full months worth of headache to try and pick up my new rifle, it's not as easy as you think. A lot of the systems put in place to stop criminals from getting guns also have a lot of negative effects on people like me.

And I wish my Walmart sold guns, all they stock is ammo

[Senkaku]

What a stupid analogy and a completely false equivalency. Your average LEO is not your average civilian. They carry them because they are law enforcement and need force to apply the law in some cases (force that is supposed to, in most cases, be more than your average petty thief or dickhead making a scene in a restaurant is going to be packing). They're supposed to maintain public order, defend the peace, blah blah blah, and you don't do that by strolling along with a pocket full of posies. Your average person, meanwhile, is probably going about their lives relying on said officers for most of their security. If in a perfect world the officers are the only ones who have guns, citizens are probably gonna end up safer (as, by the way, will cops).
If we're doing this equivalency, I might as well ask why every state in the Union doesn't have an independently controlled nuclear deterrent. Are some states and by extension their citizens' lives more important than others? It's a completely different subject.




How often are smoke detectors picked up by children and then used to accidentally shoot a parent? A smoke detector is not a gun. Neither is a fire extinguisher.



I'm glad to hear you have a safe. People who are responsible and keep their guns in a safe don't bother me terribly. As for "where acceptable", I would personally take this to mean if you're going to a cruddy neighborhood or maybe going there at night or something like that (not, for example, taking public transportation or going for a run in broad daylight or going to a party or a restaurant).

If having your gun out makes you feel safer, that's fine (though I struggle to imagine the constant concern about one's safety that it would take to constantly have a gun with you, and yet maintaining, with that level of concern, enough sense of normalcy that you don't shoot the first person who you hear walking outside the door or on the sidewalk). Since I operate under a different mindset I think than a lot of people like yourself who have a gun with them everywhere, I would say that it would make me uncomfortable to be around someone who I knew had a gun just basically on them just because "you never know". I don't think it's unfair for me to want you to be pretty well trained- and maybe you are, but a lot of people simply aren't.


And I have a theory that throwing a gun, even a concealed one (or sometimes especially a concealed one) into literally any situation just adds a variable, however tiny, that could lead to a lot of bad things.


At least you train and shit. The bar for getting a concealed carry permit is alarmingly low.

Um, no, as law enforcement I can tell you that's false. The supreme court has even ruled it's not police responsibility to protect you, not to mention we respond to incidents most of the time not stop them during the event unless that person is very lucky and we are nearby.

Pardon me- it's your responsibility to uphold the law. That doesn't necessarily equate to protecting me (for example, if I just shot someone, you probably aren't gonna be too keen on protecting me, and if someone's shooting at me I certainly wouldn't expect any police officer to suddenly jump in front of me and take the bullet or anything ). As for response times- that's part of the problem. By the time you get there, if everyone involved in some situation also has a gun, you might just end up pulling up and being like "whelp we should probably tell the ambulance to bring some body bags".
Or, for example, if we restrict guns less and let people just keep them lying out, I'm sure law enforcement regularly has to deal with drunk people and/or belligerent people making scenes. Would you like that fat guy who had a few too many beers and is arguing with his wife and the waiter in the restaurant to now suddenly pull a pistol out and start waving it around? Or maybe the teenage kid who got caught with some weed or ran away from home or whatever can have his mom's pistol with him because why the hell not.

Making it easier for people to get guns would seem to me to put police officers in the line of fire, since more often than not they're the ones who have to deal with violent crime. If the armed and untrained civilians on the scene are now the actual first responders to violent crimes, that probably isn't gonna go down so hot for literally anyone.

Also, civilians are subject to the same threats as police, so that goes out the window for you.

Civilians tend to deal with criminals and people committing crimes a good deal less than police. Since, you know, civilians tend to go away from incidents of violent crime, while LEOs end up going towards them.

Saying that civilians face the same threats as police is a pretty damn big stretch.

[Pope Joan]

Some colonies made it a duty, an obligation, for a homeowner to have a musket or rifle. This was so that they could defend themselves collectively against oppressors which, as recent experience had taught them, could include their own government.

[Patrick OConner]

Carrying a fire arm is like a parachute. If you do not have it when you really needed chances are you will not ever need it again. Banning guns is stupid also. You can not un invent a piece of technology. People can and will still make them. A person only need a basic understanding of machining to create a fire arm. And wit 3d printers it is even simpler. As for countries that have banned fire arms whatever really. I winder how the crime stats are there? and the serial stabbings? It may actually work for them who knows. It might work for different cultures and who am I to tell you how to run your nation? But in America it is a bit different. Part of the problem is that we stopped teaching gun safety in school and accidents happen especially to the ignorant but then again a gun is just a tool and I can think of a lot tools that will kill you of you mishandle them. Another big problem is fear and the before mention ignorance (which kinda go hand in hand). People see a gun and go "BIG SCARY THING" No it is not. It is a tool that one must respect and learn to use properly. Proper gun owners clean maintain and above all practice with there fire arms regularly. As for the mass shooting. They suck no question about it. But there are things we can do to prevent them. All of the school shooting happened in gun free zones and a lot of the others as well. Most mass shooters are just deranged people trying to live out some fantasy or make some statement. Mass shootings were an armed citizen is involved have drastically lower fatalities that those were the police responded. Police response takes time and time means lives. What would should protect yourself with? A sign or a gun
Man has been killing each other since the very beginning of time. He used stick and rocks. Then clubs and bows (with arrows). Then swords and axes maces. And then guns. Man is really good at finding ways to kill his fellow man. (What gets me is that you are okay with banning guns but what about WMD? Are you okay with those around?) Abd tghen there is the whole goverment and oppression thing. (Yeah Hitler, Stalin and Mao banned guns and slaughtered there people) Personally I always err on the side of cautions and preparedness. Look at history. When man has had a serious disagreement fighting always breaks out. Might makes right and the winner rights the history and all that.

Bottom line is there are bad men in the world. Always have always will. Only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with gun. If you do not like your choice. I will not tell you how to live your life and you will not tell me how to live mine. And I will keep my guns btw. If you want them...well as King Leonidas said to the Persians at Thermopylae "Molon Labe"

[Senkaku]

And the United States overall has one of the highest rate of gun deaths in the developed world. I think the point is that the fact that you even feel that you need to carry a gun everywhere on your person at all times to feel safe maybe points to deeper issues, either with the country, or you, or both.



An exaggeration, to be sure, but even Walmart sells guns. Between smaller gun shops, Walmart and other big companies that also sell guns, gun companies themselves, and gun shows, guns are readily available to most Americans with fairly minimal effort if they want one.

people carry guns because it is out right in this nation and we defend our rights, just as we defend freedom of speech.

So the only reason we carry guns is because the Constitution says it's a right and we defend our rights. Just like freedom of speech. We carry them because we can, basically. That's a terrible reason to carry a gun.

I feel like you must be running out of arguments or something.

Why would you care if walmart sells guns? They are properly licensed by the government. Maybe your paranoid, sounds like you think everyone with a gun is out to get oyu.

I don't care if Walmart sells guns. I care if they sell them to people who don't know what they're doing who then proceed to shoot someone else, shoot themselves, or be shot by someone else because of their carelessness or stupidity, particularly if there were laws that could've been passed to prevent either the shooting or the sale in the first place.

For example, I don't think selling guns to people on no-fly lists is a terribly bright idea. I don't think parents leaving their guns around and getting shot by their kids should be an occurrence that any civilized society should permit to ever happen.

[Washington Resistance Army]

For example, I don't think selling guns to people on no-fly lists is a terribly bright idea.

Given you can be placed on that list with no due process and no real good reason I don't think it's a terribly bright idea to use that to deny people their rights either. Frankly it should be done away with entirely or reformed.

[Kington Langley]

Maybe. But the fact that you CAN buy guns at the local supermarket at all is totally baffling to me!

and it baffles me that you cant...

Why? Why WOULD you want to buy something specifically designed to efficiently dispatch a human being at the same place you buy your loaf of bread and toilet roll? Perhaps it is because I am from a country where guns are seen as something only members of the armed forces and Olympic sportsmen should be allowed to use on a regular basis but I just can't understand this mindset.

[Washington Resistance Army]

and it baffles me that you cant...

Why? Why WOULD you want to buy something specifically designed to efficiently dispatch a human being at the same place you buy your loaf of bread and toilet roll? Perhaps it is because I am from a country where guns are seen as something only members of the armed forces and Olympic sportsmen should be allowed to use on a regular basis but I just can't understand this mindset.

Probably because gas is expensive and it's nice to have everything at one spot

[Patrick OConner]

and it baffles me that you cant...

Why? Why WOULD you want to buy something specifically designed to efficiently dispatch a human being at the same place you buy your loaf of bread and toilet roll? Perhaps it is because I am from a country where guns are seen as something only members of the armed forces and Olympic sportsmen should be allowed to use on a regular basis but I just can't understand this mindset.

Why not? I know a lot of people that hunt for their food. I know farmers and ranchers that use them to protect there land and animals from threats. So why not?

[Europe and Oceania]

and it baffles me that you cant...

Why? Why WOULD you want to buy something specifically designed to efficiently dispatch a human being at the same place you buy your loaf of bread and toilet roll? Perhaps it is because I am from a country where guns are seen as something only members of the armed forces and Olympic sportsmen should be allowed to use on a regular basis but I just can't understand this mindset.

Not just awesome United Kingdom, guns are illegal in most european and asian countries with the exception of having guns for hunting purposes which is completely sensible understandable.

[Europe and Oceania]

Why? Why WOULD you want to buy something specifically designed to efficiently dispatch a human being at the same place you buy your loaf of bread and toilet roll? Perhaps it is because I am from a country where guns are seen as something only members of the armed forces and Olympic sportsmen should be allowed to use on a regular basis but I just can't understand this mindset.

Why not? I know a lot of people that hunt for their food. I know farmers and ranchers that use them to protect there land and animals from threats. So why not?

That should be the only exception for a civilian owning a gun, for hunting purposes like most of Europe and Asia.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why not? I know a lot of people that hunt for their food. I know farmers and ranchers that use them to protect there land and animals from threats. So why not?

That should be the only exception for a civilian owning a gun, for hunting purposes like most of Europe and Asia.

How about no.

[North Calaveras]

Why not? I know a lot of people that hunt for their food. I know farmers and ranchers that use them to protect there land and animals from threats. So why not?

That should be the only exception for a civilian owning a gun, for hunting purposes like most of Europe and Asia.

so fuck my personal defence right?

[Patrick OConner]

Again a gun is a TOOL. It can do nothing on its own. A person must use it. A gun cannot fire itself. And for the record hunting rifles are just as lethal as any other gun depending on the skill of the user. You can kill someone from several hundred yards instead of a few yards. A gun that kill a deer can kill human (who both are technically medium game btw)

I personally believe in self defense and keeping government in check myself.

[Senkaku]

Carrying a fire arm is like a parachute.

Except if parachutes could kill people quite effectively at range.

Carrying a fire arm is like a parachute. If you do not have it when you really needed chances are you will not ever need it again. Banning guns is stupid also. You can not un invent a piece of technology. People can and will still make them. A person only need a basic understanding of machining to create a fire arm.

"People will make this thing so we shouldn't restrict it"

It only takes a relatively basic understanding of chemistry to make bombs. Making synthetic drugs requires a little deeper knowledge, depending on the drug. With my fairly basic understanding of welding I could probably attach a passably good ram to the hood of my car to spear vehicles ahead of me.

While it may only take a "basic" understanding of machining to create a firearm, I can only assume you're using that term the way that Song China used it, because most people don't have the equipment to crank out AKs in their garage, and because most modern guns are fairly sophisticated devices.

And wit 3d printers it is even simpler.

When the "cheap" shitty countertop 3D printers that hucksters are trying to shove off on people who think they're miracles can actually print effective guns I'll be very impressed and will probably buy one.

As for countries that have banned fire arms whatever really. I winder how the crime stats are there? and the serial stabbings? It may actually work for them

It does. Quite well in many places.

who knows.

Comrade, the miracles of the information age allow you to discover the answer to this query immediately!

It might work for different cultures and who am I to tell you how to run your nation?

We all know how different Australia is from America. Former British colonies with a strong frontier culture and strong gun cultures and plenty of machismo and white people, fought together in World War Two, fairly significant trading partners, both large industrial nations.

That doesn't sound that different, actually.

But in America it is a bit different.

"In America, people are invulnerable to bullets and regularly use loaded guns as sex toys!"
Oh wait.

Part of the problem is that we stopped teaching gun safety in school and accidents happen especially to the ignorant but then again a gun is just a tool and I can think of a lot tools that will kill you of you mishandle them.

I think someone just suggested teaching kids how to use firearms in school. I'm in high school. I'll just speed up the process and nip off and blow my own brains out, thanks.

Another big problem is fear and the before mention ignorance (which kinda go hand in hand). People see a gun and go "BIG SCARY THING" No it is not. It is a tool that one must respect and learn to use properly.

I will say, I've only shot rifles and shotguns, so maybe I'm just fearful and ignorant of the Barbarian Thunder Sticks Which Kill At Great Distance.

Proper gun owners clean maintain and above all practice with there fire arms regularly.

Yeah, not everyone is a "proper" gun owner.

As for the mass shooting. They suck no question about it. But there are things we can do to prevent them. All of the school shooting happened in gun free zones and a lot of the others as well.

Because letting teachers and parents carry guns on campus is a great idea that will definitely only end in happiness.

Most mass shooters are just deranged people trying to live out some fantasy or make some statement.

So more funding for mental health institutions then? I'd support that.

Police response takes time and time means lives.

Everything takes time. It slays king, ruins town, and beats high mountain down. Emphasis on the slaying king part in this case. If police responses took no time the fundamental laws of the universe would crumble and cats would fuck dogs and you'd have mass hysteria.

What would should protect yourself with? A sign or a gun

You're so witty. Senpai, how will I ever become like you?

Man has been killing each other since the very beginning of time. He used stick and rocks. Then clubs and bows (with arrows). Then swords and axes maces. And then guns. Man is really good at finding ways to kill his fellow man.

And therefore we shouldn't try at all to save lives by passing some laws that might help. Okay.

(What gets me is that you are okay with banning guns but what about WMD? Are you okay with those around?)

Unless I've missed a lot, we have banned civilians from lugging nukes and chemicals weapons and anthrax around.

Bottom line is there are bad men in the world. Always have always will.

Something is wrong with the verbs here, I think. That aside, a good (and unfortunately true) cliche. So why not try to minimize their impact?

Only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with gun.

Preferably a good guy who knows what the fuck he's doing.

And then there's the whole "honey I left my gun on the table have you- shit Jimmy put that down" situation.

If you do not like your choice. I will not tell you how to live your life and you will not tell me how to live mine.

You understand we live in a nation with laws and shit, right? If I get enough people to vote the same way as me then in fact I can tell you how to live your life. Same goes for you.

And I will keep my guns btw. If you want them...well as King Leonidas said to the Persians at Thermopylae "Molon Labe"

I'm sure that LEOs, National Guardspeople, and military service members will be shivering in their boots when the UN Lizard Jewluminati sends them in black helicopters to your house.

[Europe and Oceania]

That should be the only exception for a civilian owning a gun, for hunting purposes like most of Europe and Asia.

so fuck my personal defence right?

There are alternatives.

Peolple in Europe don't have guns and they are not dying like crazy, in fact, the U.S. actually has way more gun violence than europe and other countries in the world precisely because guns are legal for self-defense.

[North Calaveras]

so fuck my personal defence right?

There are alternatives.

Peolple in Europe don't have guns and they are not dying like crazy, in fact, the U.S. actually has way more gun violence than europe and other countries in the world precisely because guns are legal for self-defense.

People are not dying like crazy...

having more gun violence also means nothing, im sure saudi arabia has far less swimming deaths, does that mean we need to be like them?

[Kington Langley]

so fuck my personal defence right?

Owning a firearm just for defence purposes merely proves my point that unrestricted gun ownership is completely nonsensical. In a country such as mine where only the army and country-dwelling retired posh twats with a passion for fox hunting use guns on a regular basis, I don't NEED to go to such lengths to defend myself. Heck, even the police don't need to carry guns in public here.

[North Calaveras]

so fuck my personal defence right?

Owning a firearm just for defence purposes merely proves my point that unrestricted gun ownership is completely nonsensical. In a country such as mine where only the army and country-dwelling retired posh twats with a passion for fox hunting use guns on a regular basis, I don't NEED to go to such lengths to defend myself. Heck, even the police don't need to carry guns in public here.

that's nice, it dosn't change the situation here.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And can we all please stop touting accidental deaths like they're some horrid thing that happens 24/7? Official numbers are only like 500 a year, it's tragic yeah but more people are beaten to death by someone elses bare hands, it's not really an issue.