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by Vassenor » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:53 am
by Chessmistress » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:53 am
Gothmogs wrote:Chessmistress, as much as I applaud your dedication to the feminist movement, I think your ideas and efforts to support them, as well as the people you also support, are actually causing the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. I'm a feminist myself, and support the idea behind the movement, but radical feminism has been causing a very large backlash against feminism and women.
Over the years I've seen a steady increase in the amount of people who oppose the feminist movement because of ideas like these, and who turn their efforts away from helping women and furthering the cause for equality to instead trying to counter the radicals. I've heard borderline sexist statements from people who previously supported feminism, and it's giving me some cause to worry about the direction the movement is headed. I don't want to see infighting in private media circles, when this energy could be instead directed toward furthering women's rights and the rights of the LGBT community.
Of course, these are just my personal observations, which cannot be taken for evidence, but I just wanted to let you know what I've seen.
by United States of Conner » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:00 am
Chessmistress wrote:Gothmogs wrote:Chessmistress, as much as I applaud your dedication to the feminist movement, I think your ideas and efforts to support them, as well as the people you also support, are actually causing the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. I'm a feminist myself, and support the idea behind the movement, but radical feminism has been causing a very large backlash against feminism and women.
Over the years I've seen a steady increase in the amount of people who oppose the feminist movement because of ideas like these, and who turn their efforts away from helping women and furthering the cause for equality to instead trying to counter the radicals. I've heard borderline sexist statements from people who previously supported feminism, and it's giving me some cause to worry about the direction the movement is headed. I don't want to see infighting in private media circles, when this energy could be instead directed toward furthering women's rights and the rights of the LGBT community.
Of course, these are just my personal observations, which cannot be taken for evidence, but I just wanted to let you know what I've seen.
I understand your concerns, but I think that a little backlash is natural: more and more we will approach to true, substantive, equality, more and more males will suffer the loss of their privileges, and that will cause backlash...but...the alternative what could be? Doing nothing?
An example: during 70s Feminism was mainly about women's sexual liberation - that's why it was easy for many males supporting it - I guess many of them simply hoped to get laid, more and more.
Now it's about equal pay, more women on the workplace, limiting the excesses caused by a misleaded idea of the sexual revolution (like, in example: limiting drunk hook-up culture through affirmative consent laws), and so on. Since more women in the workplace means more competitors for men, then it's natural many men oppose it; since affirmative consent laws means that males will have to being more careful when a woman is drunk, then it's natural that's uncomfortable for some or many of them and by so many will oppose it, and so on.
But, again: what would be the alternative?
by Kelinfort » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:23 am
Chessmistress wrote:Gothmogs wrote:Chessmistress, as much as I applaud your dedication to the feminist movement, I think your ideas and efforts to support them, as well as the people you also support, are actually causing the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. I'm a feminist myself, and support the idea behind the movement, but radical feminism has been causing a very large backlash against feminism and women.
Over the years I've seen a steady increase in the amount of people who oppose the feminist movement because of ideas like these, and who turn their efforts away from helping women and furthering the cause for equality to instead trying to counter the radicals. I've heard borderline sexist statements from people who previously supported feminism, and it's giving me some cause to worry about the direction the movement is headed. I don't want to see infighting in private media circles, when this energy could be instead directed toward furthering women's rights and the rights of the LGBT community.
Of course, these are just my personal observations, which cannot be taken for evidence, but I just wanted to let you know what I've seen.
I understand your concerns, but I think that a little backlash is natural: more and more we will approach to true, substantive, equality, more and more males will suffer the loss of their privileges, and that will cause backlash...but...the alternative what could be? Doing nothing?
An example: during 70s Feminism was mainly about women's sexual liberation - that's why it was easy for many males supporting it - I guess many of them simply hoped to get laid, more and more.
Now it's about equal pay, more women on the workplace, limiting the excesses caused by a misleaded idea of the sexual revolution (like, in example: limiting drunk hook-up culture through affirmative consent laws), and so on. Since more women in the workplace means more competitors for men, then it's natural many men oppose it; since affirmative consent laws means that males will have to being more careful when a woman is drunk, then it's natural that's uncomfortable for some or many of them and by so many will oppose it, and so on.
But, again: what would be the alternative?
I understand your concerns, but I think that a little backlash is natural: more and more we will approach to true, substantive, equality, more and more males will suffer the loss of their privileges, and that will cause backlash...but...the alternative what could be? Doing nothing?
An example: during 70s Feminism was mainly about women's sexual liberation - that's why it was easy for many males supporting it - I guess many of them simply hoped to get laid, more and more.
1. Now it's about equal pay, more women on the workplace, limiting the excesses caused by a misleaded idea of the sexual revolution (like, in example: limiting drunk hook-up culture through affirmative consent laws), and so on. 2. Since more women in the workplace means more competitors for men, then it's natural many men oppose it; 3. since affirmative consent laws means that males will have to being more careful when a woman is drunk, then it's natural that's uncomfortable for some or many of them and by so many will oppose it, and so on.
by Ostroeuropa » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:47 am
Hirota wrote:Its tenuous, I was exaggerating, and I don't actually think you really are (but others apparently do) and I was unfair to suggest I think you were but:Ostroeuropa wrote:Where did I say that? I've pretty much just said what you did here. Feminist theory is the reason for this, and feminists spread feminist theory....and allowing feminists to dictate the narrative surrounding oppression.
I can imagine maybe, maybe, if you looked at this with your glasses off, upside down whilst submerged in water and with a generous bucketload of bias, an inclination towards shitposting and a personal vendetta against you, someone might imagine this is a hate boner post against feminists.
And to an extent, it is - you are an anti-feminist after all, but it's not an unwarranted attack in the slightest. Feminism has done great things, but is clearly influencing very, very stupid things as evidenced by this article.
Of course, instead of debating or arguing the point, some people would rather try and smear and shitpost into the ground. It suggests they lack the ability to do the former, and are therefore forced to do the later.
Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
by New Edom » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:53 am
Vassenor wrote:To be fair these days "SJW" means "holds an opinion in opposition to mine".
by Kelinfort » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:55 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Hirota wrote:Its tenuous, I was exaggerating, and I don't actually think you really are (but others apparently do) and I was unfair to suggest I think you were but:
I can imagine maybe, maybe, if you looked at this with your glasses off, upside down whilst submerged in water and with a generous bucketload of bias, an inclination towards shitposting and a personal vendetta against you, someone might imagine this is a hate boner post against feminists.
And to an extent, it is - you are an anti-feminist after all, but it's not an unwarranted attack in the slightest. Feminism has done great things, but is clearly influencing very, very stupid things as evidenced by this article.
Of course, instead of debating or arguing the point, some people would rather try and smear and shitpost into the ground. It suggests they lack the ability to do the former, and are therefore forced to do the later.
Okay, may have read too much into it. No problem.Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
Given the state of things as they are currently and the driving out of the left wing and its institutions that has gone on so long, I don't think this is possible. Instead if they want to oppose these people, they'll be better off joining movements like gamergate, the MRM, the New Right, etc, and continuing to build bridges with right wing liberals as those groups have been doing.
by The Huskar Social Union » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:14 pm
by Chessmistress » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:16 pm
Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
Kelinfort wrote: Affirmative consent laws, despite their flaws, are more about teaching consent (this should also include women).
noun
1.
the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.
2.
any written or positive rule or collection of rules prescribed under the authority of the state or nation, as by the people in its constitution.
Compare by law, statute law.
3.
the controlling influence of such rules; the condition of society brought about by their observance:
maintaining law and order.
4.
a system or collection of such rules.
by New Edom » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:17 pm
Kelinfort wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Okay, may have read too much into it. No problem.
Given the state of things as they are currently and the driving out of the left wing and its institutions that has gone on so long, I don't think this is possible. Instead if they want to oppose these people, they'll be better off joining movements like gamergate, the MRM, the New Right, etc, and continuing to build bridges with right wing liberals as those groups have been doing.
I will, gladly, reject both and leave ideological camps to the fighting. My views are mine alone.
by Imperializt Russia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:20 pm
New Edom wrote:Vassenor wrote:To be fair these days "SJW" means "holds an opinion in opposition to mine".
No. SJW refers to people who tarnish social justice with accusations that anyone who doesn't agree with everything they say--even if they agree with general principles--of being sexist, racist and otherwise evil.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Camicon » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:22 pm
Chessmistress wrote:Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
I don't see how it could be "terrible".
Quite the opposite.
I think it's a positive development that NUS is recognizing male privilege and white privilege that gay males have
*snip*
Country of glowing hearts, and patrons of the artsThe Trews, Under The Sun
Help me out
Star spangled madness, united sadness
Count me out
No human is more human than any other. - Lieutenant-General Roméo Antonius Dallaire
Don't shine for swine. - Metric, Soft Rock Star
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by Imperializt Russia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:23 pm
Chessmistress wrote:Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
I don't see how it could be "terrible".
Quite the opposite.
I think it's a positive development that NUS is recognizing male privilege and white privilege that gay males have.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by The Huskar Social Union » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:25 pm
Imperializt Russia wrote:Chessmistress wrote:
I don't see how it could be "terrible".
Quite the opposite.
I think it's a positive development that NUS is recognizing male privilege and white privilege that gay males have.
Student feminism in the UK is mostly dominated by middle-class white women who have more white privilege than I have male privilege.
by The balkens » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:27 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:30 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
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by Wallenburg » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:30 pm
Chessmistress wrote:Kelinfort wrote:This is a terrible development. I would encourage leftists to wrangle in the radicals aggressively.
I don't see how it could be "terrible".
Quite the opposite.
I think it's a positive development that NUS is recognizing male privilege and white privilege that gay males have.
by Chessmistress » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:31 pm
Imperializt Russia wrote:Chessmistress wrote:
I don't see how it could be "terrible".
Quite the opposite.
I think it's a positive development that NUS is recognizing male privilege and white privilege that gay males have.
Student feminism in the UK is mostly dominated by middle-class white women who have more white privilege than I have male privilege.
by Imperializt Russia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:32 pm
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Imperializt Russia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:33 pm
Chessmistress wrote:Imperializt Russia wrote:Student feminism in the UK is mostly dominated by middle-class white women who have more white privilege than I have male privilege.
First: the two privileges are NOT comparable.
Second: you have male privilege, female students don't have it.
Third: privilege is mostly invisible to the ones that have it - so you cannot establish how much privilege you have just only for being a male.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Chessmistress » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:34 pm
by Wallenburg » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:34 pm
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