Brussels Terrorist Attack: ISIS Claims Responsibility

[Costa Fierro]

People on both sides can and have made good points. For instance, many of the people saying that there is a massive issue with fundamentalism in Islam are some of the ones we could consider "right wing".

I wouldn't consider it a problem with fundamentalism Islam in general but a problem with fundamentalist Islam in Western states with large or prominent Muslim populations.

As I said much earlier in the thread, a lot of the people that carried out these attacks are not foreigners or refugees but individuals born and radicalized in the countries they attack. And a great many of these people come from areas of cities like Paris and Brussels where there are not that many jobs and where poverty, even extreme poverty, is the norm. When you are born into and come of age in a place where there aren't that many options outside of a life in crime, then you become frustrated and angry and resentful at the state for not doing enough to help you or to change your lot in life. It becomes a lot easier to see radical Islam as a way of getting revenge on a society that has refused to help you outside of basic economic assistance.

[Fartsniffage]

You're right. The US and the UK needs to start paying compensation for these attacks in Europe....

Pardon?

Did I stutter?

[Shofercia]

That's good to hear.

As for Daesh/ISIS, how the fuck is murdering innocent people just? How the fuck is raping innocent children just? Eventually the rest of us would just be like "fuck it, we need a good reality show, Russia, China, US, France, UK - whomever takes the most land from Daesh/ISIS wins!"

Interpretations of religious text that provide legitimacy in their eyes.

No one is really wanting to have tons of boots on the ground.

Recruit people from impoverished countries/regions, provide them with training and food, provide them families with the basic necessities of life, back them up with air forces, and use them against Daesh/ISIS. I, for one, am getting fucking tired of having to constantly look over my shoulder.

[Rio Cana]

They say IS is giving out free sweets in IS held territory in Syria because of what happened in Europe. In the meantime, they keep losing towns to the Syrian free rebels and to the Syrian government.

See this page with the news I just indicated. News is on the right side just scroll down.
http://syria.liveuamap.com/

[Napkiraly]

Pardon?

Did I stutter?

No, but it is an utterly bizarre thing to say.

[Napkiraly]

Interpretations of religious text that provide legitimacy in their eyes.

No one is really wanting to have tons of boots on the ground.

Recruit people from impoverished countries/regions, provide them with training and food, provide them families with the basic necessities of life, back them up with air forces, and use them against Daesh/ISIS. I, for one, am getting fucking tired of having to constantly look over my shoulder.

That's what is being done right now.

[The Isolationist State Of Islam]

And it fucking happens again. Absolutely fucking ridiculous and intolerable.

You're right. The US and the UK needs to start paying compensation for these attacks in Europe....

Using that logic, Belgium should have to pay the families that fell victim to the Rwandan genocide.

[Fartsniffage]

Did I stutter?

No, but it is an utterly bizarre thing to say.

Not really. ISIS is a direct descendant of the recent US and UK adventures in the middle east.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

People on both sides can and have made good points. For instance, many of the people saying that there is a massive issue with fundamentalism in Islam are some of the ones we could consider "right wing".

I wouldn't consider it a problem with fundamentalism Islam in general but a problem with fundamentalist Islam in Western states with large or prominent Muslim populations.

As I said much earlier in the thread, a lot of the people that carried out these attacks are not foreigners or refugees but individuals born and radicalized in the countries they attack. And a great many of these people come from areas of cities like Paris and Brussels where there are not that many jobs and where poverty, even extreme poverty, is the norm. When you are born into and come of age in a place where there aren't that many options outside of a life in crime, then you become frustrated and angry and resentful at the state for not doing enough to help you or to change your lot in life. It becomes a lot easier to see radical Islam as a way of getting revenge on a society that has refused to help you outside of basic economic assistance.

Yeah. If you read about the Paris attackers' backgrounds, they all follow a very similar trajectory - born into well-assimilated lower-class immigrant families, grew up as typical teenagers/young adults (two of the Paris attackers ran a bar, one was arrested a number of times for drug offences, etc) and then very suddenly became radicalized, usually due to contact with a mosque known for its radical preachers. The fact that they all were struggling to make ends meet and/or drifted from minimum wage job to job is also readily apparent. Like you said, deprived people with no place to go and a lot of resentment take to revanchist ideologies easily. In another time, they would have been Marxist-Leninists or anarchists or some other ideology that promises meaning and a way to strike back. The only difference now is that in our time and place in the 21st century, radical Islam fills that niche.

[Trollgaard]

And it fucking happens again. Absolutely fucking ridiculous and intolerable.

You're right. The US and the UK needs to start paying compensation for these attacks in Europe....

No. What needs to happen is ISIS being killed down to the last fucking man. Every. Last. Fucking. One.

[Geilinor]

Like you said, deprived people with no place to go and a lot of resentment take to revanchist ideologies easily. In another time, they would have been Marxist-Leninists or anarchists or some other ideology that promises meaning and a way to strike back. The only difference now is that in our time and place in the 21st century, radical Islam fills that niche.

That explains a lot of it. We had communist and fascist groups recruiting and committing atrocities in the past and now there is radical Islam and jihadism to fill the void.

[The Isolationist State Of Islam]

You're right. The US and the UK needs to start paying compensation for these attacks in Europe....

No. What needs to happen is ISIS being killed down to the last fucking man. Every. Last. Fucking. One.

How would you suggest doing that?

[Robert Bork]

It's pretty clear we need Wilders as PM.

[Napkiraly]

No, but it is an utterly bizarre thing to say.

Not really. ISIS is a direct descendant of the recent US and UK adventures in the middle east.

You do realise that it was more than just the UK and USA, right? The resolution that they wanted to pass to approve of military force was also being brought in by the Spanish. Here is a list of everyone involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq#List_of_countries_in_the_coalition

Not to mention, both France and Belgium have or still are conducting operation in Syria and Iraq against Daesh.

[Saint Jade IV]

Poverty and lack of education lead to a greater likelihood of being convicted of a crime. Your whole premise has a false basis. Try again.

Doesn't matter. The reasoning still works, concluding with "Moroccans are more likely to commit crime than the general population".

No. Being more likely to be convicted of a crime is not the same thing as being more likely to commit crime. The reasoning does not work, unless you can prove that Moroccans actually commit more crimes than non-Moroccans, and that it is not a bias in policing or courts that results in a higher conviction rate. Which you can't.

[Robert Bork]

Doesn't matter. The reasoning still works, concluding with "Moroccans are more likely to commit crime than the general population".

No. Being more likely to be convicted of a crime is not the same thing as being more likely to commit crime. The reasoning does not work, unless you can prove that Moroccans actually commit more crimes than non-Moroccans, and that it is not a bias in policing or courts that results in a higher conviction rate. Which you can't.

You're just repeating yourself now. You just keep saying and saying that it could easily be court bias. And I keep explaining to you how I get around that problem entirely. My argument is about committing crimes, not convictions, and I've already explained how I can establish that Moroccans commit a disproportionate amount of crimes than the general population without needing to make use of potentially biased conviction rates.

[Fartsniffage]

Not really. ISIS is a direct descendant of the recent US and UK adventures in the middle east.

You do realise that it was more than just the UK and USA, right? The resolution that they wanted to pass to approve of military force was also being brought in by the Spanish. Here is a list of everyone involved. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_–_Iraq#List_of_countries_in_the_coalition[/url]

Not to mention, both France and Belgium have or still are conducting operation in Syria and Iraq against Daesh.

It really wasn't. Just look at the numbers deployed for the invasion.

Yes, they've been trying to clean up our mess. And they've both been roundly punished for it.

[Trollgaard]

No. What needs to happen is ISIS being killed down to the last fucking man. Every. Last. Fucking. One.

How would you suggest doing that?

Deport any radical clerics from Europe and the US, for starters, and then send in a coalition to the ISIS held lands and sweep end from end to end. Will it be long and bloody? Yes, but the world will be better in the end.

[Napkiraly]

You do realise that it was more than just the UK and USA, right? The resolution that they wanted to pass to approve of military force was also being brought in by the Spanish. Here is a list of everyone involved. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_–_Iraq#List_of_countries_in_the_coalition[/url]

Not to mention, both France and Belgium have or still are conducting operation in Syria and Iraq against Daesh.

It really wasn't. Just look at the numbers deployed for the invasion.

Yes, they've been trying to clean up our mess. And they've both been roundly punished for it.

They had the largest forces for the invasion simply because they had far more capability to launch expeditionary forces than the rest. Doesn't change that many countries sent troops to Iraq.

>Conveniently forgetting that the UK and USA are also conducting operations to try and fix things

[The Isolationist State Of Islam]

How would you suggest doing that?

Deport any radical clerics from Europe and the US, for starters, and then send in a coalition to the ISIS held lands and sweep end from end to end. Will it be long and bloody? Yes, but the world will be better in the end.

That'd be a technical violation of the first amendment. Also, how will they know who is ISIS? How do we know it won't just make the situation worse?

You do realise that it was more than just the UK and USA, right? The resolution that they wanted to pass to approve of military force was also being brought in by the Spanish. Here is a list of everyone involved. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_–_Iraq#List_of_countries_in_the_coalition[/url]

Not to mention, both France and Belgium have or still are conducting operation in Syria and Iraq against Daesh.

It really wasn't. Just look at the numbers deployed for the invasion.

Yes, they've been trying to clean up our mess. And they've both been roundly punished for it.

I state again, using that logic Belgium would have to pay reparations for the Rwandan genocide.

[Napkiraly]

Don't forget the Congo.

[The Isolationist State Of Islam]

Don't forget the Congo.

I left it at Rwanda for the sake of simplicity.

[Fartsniffage]

It really wasn't. Just look at the numbers deployed for the invasion.

Yes, they've been trying to clean up our mess. And they've both been roundly punished for it.

They had the largest forces for the invasion simply because they had far more capability to launch expeditionary forces than the rest. Doesn't change that many countries sent troops to Iraq.

>Conveniently forgetting that the UK and USA are also conducting operations to try and fix things

Not really. It was just that everyone else had far more sense. 200,000 troops between the US and the UK, 2,300 from everyone else in the world. Once we'd already fucked things up then the rest of the world decided to get involved to try to mitigate the problem that we created.

Why should they have to? We're the ones who fucked the region up.

[The Isolationist State Of Islam]

They had the largest forces for the invasion simply because they had far more capability to launch expeditionary forces than the rest. Doesn't change that many countries sent troops to Iraq.

>Conveniently forgetting that the UK and USA are also conducting operations to try and fix things

Not really. It was just that everyone else had far more sense. 200,000 troops between the US and the UK, 2,300 from everyone else in the world. Once we'd already fucked things up then the rest of the world decided to get involved to try to mitigate the problem that we created.

Why should they have to? We're the ones who fucked the region up.

So would you support Belgium paying reparations to Rwanda?

[Trollgaard]

Deport any radical clerics from Europe and the US, for starters, and then send in a coalition to the ISIS held lands and sweep end from end to end. Will it be long and bloody? Yes, but the world will be better in the end.

That'd be a technical violation of the first amendment. Also, how will they know who is ISIS? How do we know it won't just make the situation worse?

It really wasn't. Just look at the numbers deployed for the invasion.

Yes, they've been trying to clean up our mess. And they've both been roundly punished for it.

I state again, using that logic Belgium would have to pay reparations for the Rwandan genocide.

All I know is that this rot, ISIS, has been left to grow for some goddamned reason. It needs to be cleansed.