Social isolation, healthcare, and entitlements

[Emerald Ilses Empire]

I think I was unclear, and I apologize, the volunteers would be the friends.

Alright, lets get a few base points that will need to be addressed to successfully treat social isolationism

1. Identify people who are socially isolated
2. Develop a process that can adapt to each individual's problems and issues
3. Finance and run said processes
4. Identify when the patient is "cured" of their social isolation.


1. In order to identify people who are socially isolated, we will need to either look for them through open and belligerent invasion of everyone's privacy, or through self-help. Since we are looking at the demographic people who have not gone to any therapy for help (Since the demographic who look for help and can't be cured can't....Well...be cured), that alone makes the voluntary response method invalid. Therefore, leaving the brutal and abhorrently expensive path of filing every single report on billions of people to find which ones might be feeling socially excluded.

2. Since there is no "one-size-fit-all" treatment, you will need to use methods akin to therapists and psycholigists already use, except done on individuals who never asked for help. One major aspect of therapy is that the patient has to want to be helped in order to be cured. Since we aren't treating actual mental illnesses, but merely the feeling of isolation in this scenario, it will even be more difficult to coerce people to attend help session for isolation.
If the cure is to find friends, then you need to have a demographic of people willing and open to meet complete strangers and be friends with them, however since this is something introverts tend to dislike doing, and since they make up 50% of the population and I would imagine be the larger population within the "isolation" demographic...It will be hard. You also have to convince the PATIENT to hang out and become friends with complete strangers as well.

3. How are you going to finance it? Taxes, donations, fees? Even if somehow you run it ALL on volunteers, you still need to provide funding for supplies and the like.

4. How do you determine when a person is "cured" of loneliness? Merely when they are no longer claiming to be lonely or through extensive behavioral monitoring?

[United Marxist Nations]

I think I was unclear, and I apologize, the volunteers would be the friends.

Alright, lets get a few base points that will need to be addressed to successfully treat social isolationism

1. Identify people who are socially isolated
2. Develop a process that can adapt to each individual's problems and issues
3. Finance and run said processes
4. Identify when the patient is "cured" of their social isolation.


1. In order to identify people who are socially isolated, we will need to either look for them through open and belligerent invasion of everyone's privacy, or through self-help. Since we are looking at the demographic people who have not gone to any therapy for help (Since the demographic who look for help and can't be cured can't....Well...be cured), that alone makes the voluntary response method invalid. Therefore, leaving the brutal and abhorrently expensive path of filing every single report on billions of people to find which ones might be feeling socially excluded.

2. Since there is no "one-size-fit-all" treatment, you will need to use methods akin to therapists and psycholigists already use, except done on individuals who never asked for help. One major aspect of therapy is that the patient has to want to be helped in order to be cured. Since we aren't treating actual mental illnesses, but merely the feeling of isolation in this scenario, it will even be more difficult to coerce people to attend help session for isolation.
If the cure is to find friends, then you need to have a demographic of people willing and open to meet complete strangers and be friends with them, however since this is something introverts tend to dislike doing, and since they make up 50% of the population and I would imagine be the larger population within the "isolation" demographic...It will be hard. You also have to convince the PATIENT to hang out and become friends with complete strangers as well.

3. How are you going to finance it? Taxes, donations, fees? Even if somehow you run it ALL on volunteers, you still need to provide funding for supplies and the like.

4. How do you determine when a person is "cured" of loneliness? Merely when they are no longer claiming to be lonely or through extensive behavioral monitoring?

To be clear, I'm not referring to people who just like being alone. I am talking to people like me who haven't had an informal conversation in 8 months and have a history of not having any peer emotional support, but who do not want such a situation. Not just being a little lonely, but whose loneliness is crippling and causes regular suicidal thoughts and ruminations on how terrible continuing to live in such a manner would be.

[Emerald Ilses Empire]

And how are you going to find them? And at any rate, if the lonliness is crippling and ample suicidal thoughts are present, I am fairly sure that meets some criteria of a mental disorder (And with how the DSM is written...Pretty much anything can be a mental disorder, even homosexuality.(Though to be fair... they did FINALLY recently remove homosexuality few years ago)). At any rate, how can we find them? Finding and finance are the two points I am repeatedly emphasizing, since they are important to the topic. We all agree that mental disorders are bad, and should be cured.

We already have healthcare directed to solving mental disorders, and people who won't seek treatment...Well, won't seek treatment. I don't really see what more can be added here.

[United Marxist Nations]

And how are you going to find them? And at any rate, if the lonliness is crippling and ample suicidal thoughts are present, I am fairly sure that meets some criteria of a mental disorder (And with how the DSM is written...Pretty much anything can be a mental disorder, even homosexuality.(Though to be fair... they did FINALLY recently remove homosexuality few years ago)). At any rate, how can we find them? Finding and finance are the two points I am repeatedly emphasizing, since they are important to the topic. We all agree that mental disorders are bad, and should be cured.

We already have healthcare directed to solving mental disorders, and people who won't seek treatment...Well, won't seek treatment. I don't really see what more can be added here.

What I am advocating is a new form of treatment, that I think would be more effective than pills or behavioral therapy (because none of these have worked for either myself or my brother).

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

And how are you going to find them? And at any rate, if the lonliness is crippling and ample suicidal thoughts are present, I am fairly sure that meets some criteria of a mental disorder (And with how the DSM is written...Pretty much anything can be a mental disorder, even homosexuality.(Though to be fair... they did FINALLY recently remove homosexuality few years ago)). At any rate, how can we find them? Finding and finance are the two points I am repeatedly emphasizing, since they are important to the topic. We all agree that mental disorders are bad, and should be cured.

We already have healthcare directed to solving mental disorders, and people who won't seek treatment...Well, won't seek treatment. I don't really see what more can be added here.

Few years ago?

The 1970s was the first removal of Homosexuality from the DSM.

[Olivaero]

This is no surprise to me, I mean think about it even on the most basic level the more friends you have the more time your going to be around people and thus the more likely your gonna get help if you have a heart attack or stroke. As for treating this I think some forms of optional socialisation program has your be open to people. Coipled with a adveryising campaign to inform people. Being able to hold a conversation with some one long enough to show your qualities and get an idea of there's is basically how you find Friends. This skills are learned by everyone who has them people to whom it comes "naturaly" simply had different formative experiences to people to whom it doesn't.

This is apart from people on the spectrum of course although I have an autistic boyfriend and two friends who are on the spectrum and all have experienced improvement in social skills by essentially exposure therapy and "instruction" (as condescending as that sounds).

Depression in my experience is a different beast though a lot of people I know who suffer from that need people to come to them the nature of the beast seems to be that it can't be the other way around they can't learn thier way out of it.

There also nothing wrong with being introverted but it's not an excuse for being alone. We all have to do things we don't like and as an introvert what i've learned is one of those things us accepting socialising even if you'd rather not right now in order to maintain and build friendships.

[WhyHelloThere]

Hey UMN.
One example of this that's currently in place might be access to therapy, since the therapist-client relationship forms the cornerstone for the entire therapeutic process. The relationship between a social worker and their clients might, at its best, fulfill a similar role, but in practice social workers are often overwhelmed and only poorly able to serve in this capacity. In any case, I strongly suspect that any well executed program to alleviate social isolation might at least have a chance of decreasing petty crime rates, recidivism, or drug abuse rates, or possibly lead to an improvement in mental health. All in all, it's an idea I can get behind.

[Saiwania]

Being alone all the time isn't going to kill you on its own anymore than stress will. I just don't see it. Rather, it is all of the various unhealthy habits that people do which has a cumulative effect on them over time. Health is a boring subject, but if you have more good than bad habits, it can offset the damage that you get every day. More often that not, people can change their lifestyle to get enough exercise, to eat right, to improve on areas that they neglect but they simply don't want to do it.

[The Sotoan Union]

Don't people with severe mental conditions get social contact through their treatment?

I really don't see what you think should be done here. Have a loser hotline you can call for a pick-me-up? I'm not trying to be degrading I genuinely don't see what practical form you want this to take?

[United Marxist Nations]

Being alone all the time isn't going to kill you on its own anymore than stress will. I just don't see it. Rather, it is all of the various unhealthy habits that people do which has a cumulative effect on them over time. Health is a boring subject, but if you have more good than bad habits, it can offset the damage that you get every day. More often that not, people can change their lifestyle to get enough exercise, to eat right, to improve on areas that they neglect but they simply don't want to do it.

So, because it is only just as deleterious, we should do nothing about it?

[Councilmembers]

Yes, as social beings, we must yearn to always connect with our brothers and sisters.

I think that starts with having paid leave, an 8 hour work day, and other mechanisms in place that can help give people the time necessary to mingle with others.

[Arumdaum]

assuming tech becomes very advanced and there are less jobs available

there could probably be new industries based upon providing feelings of friendship and social inclusion

people are feeling more isolated anyhow

there are already are things like host and hostess clubs in japan

there's sexual stuff sometimes on like outside dates but i think most of it is just conversation

the government could hire such people trained to be v. friendly and supportive and provide them as part of welfare i guess

that is i suppose until robots cant really be distinguished from humans anymore

[United Marxist Nations]

Yes, as social beings, we must yearn to always connect with our brothers and sisters.

I think that starts with having paid leave, an 8 hour work day, and other mechanisms in place that can help give people the time necessary to mingle with others.

It isn't about time.

[Diopolis]

Government-issued kittens?

You have the right to be fucking adorable.

Puppies. Of proper dogs, none of that terrier nonsense.

[Diopolis]

Yes, as social beings, we must yearn to always connect with our brothers and sisters.

I think that starts with having paid leave, an 8 hour work day, and other mechanisms in place that can help give people the time necessary to mingle with others.

It isn't about time.

As someone who's struggled with social anxiety and withdrawal, it really isn't.

[Major-Tom]

Well this is depressing.

Yes. Let us drink to our early demise.

What's depressing about alcohol?

[Mugrul]

Individuals are not self-sufficient alone. The way we think of ourselves and view ourselves comes from our own social contexts. So yes the state shouldn't only pursue values like equal opportunity and freedom, but also integration and harmony.

But how should it be done? Should the country have professional friends, partners, etc? Are friendship and companionship a right?

Some sort of therapeutic community service seems to be a more genuine (if that makes sense) answer. But I've actually known a person who progressed out of depression by helping out his grandmother and their community in a foreign country, and then working with a volunteer fire department. Though I'm not absolutely sure on the specifics of what he did in the former situation. And of course this kind of thing wont work with everyone.

[Daffyflippingduck]

You're right, society should do more to pay your way for you. It should also force people to be your friend, clean your house when you don't feel like it, feed you in bed, tell you you're special, and remove from itself anything that might upset you.

[United Marxist Nations]

You're right, society should do more to pay your way for you. It should also force people to be your friend, clean your house when you don't feel like it, feed you in bed, tell you you're special, and remove from itself anything that might upset you.

I don't need money or cleanliness, there is plenty of that. I want a reason to live.

[Pope Joan]

Many modern ills were at least exacerbated by the flight of young people into urban centers, seeking work in the new industries. Small towns and rural life, which had supported these people through informal networks of families and neighbors, withered.

I experienced some of those good days in my small home town in the 1950s. Low crime, high employment, many community rec programs and social events. The city put on an outside dance event in February; everyone dressed to the nines and danced under the lights on raised platforms to live music, while it snowed. It was fun!

But how can we go back to those days? The local industries are closed. WalMart has shut down the small shops.

[Diopolis]

Many modern ills were at least exacerbated by the flight of young people into urban centers, seeking work in the new industries. Small towns and rural life, which had supported these people through informal networks of families and neighbors, withered.

I experienced some of those good days in my small home town in the 1950s. Low crime, high employment, many community rec programs and social events. The city put on an outside dance event in February; everyone dressed to the nines and danced under the lights on raised platforms to live music, while it snowed. It was fun!

But how can we go back to those days? The local industries are closed. WalMart has shut down the small shops.

We could start by getting rid of Walmart and bringing back the guilds. Distributism for the win.

[Daffyflippingduck]

You're right, society should do more to pay your way for you. It should also force people to be your friend, clean your house when you don't feel like it, feed you in bed, tell you you're special, and remove from itself anything that might upset you.

I don't need money or cleanliness, there is plenty of that. I want a reason to live.

The state can barely justify it's own existence, on what do you expect it to justify yours for you?

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't need money or cleanliness, there is plenty of that. I want a reason to live.

The state can barely justify it's own existence, on what do you expect it to justify yours for you?

The state is justified by its necessity.

[Diopolis]

I don't need money or cleanliness, there is plenty of that. I want a reason to live.

The state can barely justify it's own existence, on what do you expect it to justify yours for you?

The state doesn't exist to justify things. It exists to protect the people who owe it allegiance.

[Pope Joan]

Many modern ills were at least exacerbated by the flight of young people into urban centers, seeking work in the new industries. Small towns and rural life, which had supported these people through informal networks of families and neighbors, withered.

I experienced some of those good days in my small home town in the 1950s. Low crime, high employment, many community rec programs and social events. The city put on an outside dance event in February; everyone dressed to the nines and danced under the lights on raised platforms to live music, while it snowed. It was fun!

But how can we go back to those days? The local industries are closed. WalMart has shut down the small shops.

We could start by getting rid of Walmart and bringing back the guilds. Distributism for the win.

It sounds appealing. Then cut back on the overemphasis on higher education as well, with its costs; use more of the good old apprenticeship system. It worked for lawyers, for centuries; for every one who received formal training, there were ten who worked as "readers" for established attorneys.

Let's have block parties, too. Block off the streets, bring in bands and food and beer. Enjoy life.