Breivik: The Moral Dilemma

[Threlizdun]

Isolation is inhumane unless the person in question can be proven a threat to others. Complete immersion would likely be dangerous at this point, though allowing visitation and and gradually reintroducing him to others is necessary to meet his social needs. Beyond his human needs, he will need to be able to interact with others if he is to have any hopes of rehabilitation.

Rehabilitation is a little off the table for a terrorist that kills 77 people and injures hundreds more.

Why? There's a reason he did these things. Be it mental illness, a troubled upbringing, alienation, or misinformation, something caused him to commit his crimes. If we are able to address these issues, help him understand why what he did was wrong, and eliminate the danger he poses to himself and others, then we absolutely should do so. If we can't, then as a person he still deserves humane treatment.

Rehabilitation is a little off the table for a terrorist that kills 77 people and injures hundreds more.

Welcome to Norway's legal system, please leave your common sense at the door.

In what way is it common sense to oppose a prison system with some of the lowest recidivism rates in the world? What are you proposing as an alternative?

[Threlizdun]

Yeah, the common sense thing to do is for Norway to totally rework their prison system just so Breivik will suffer enough to satisfy randoms on the internet.

I really doubt the general Norwegian populace is happy about how Breivik is being treated pretty damn well by the Norwegian system, but that he still has the audacity to kick up a fuss and claim he's being poorly treated.

Norway should highly consider reinstating the death penalty for mass-murdering terrorists.

Because adding to the death toll and increasing the actual cost of his punishment for the sake of bloodlust will certainly make everything better.

[Jochistan]

Yes, he is a mass-murdering lunatic, but he's also a person.

Well...debatable.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yeah, the common sense thing to do is for Norway to totally rework their prison system just so Breivik will suffer enough to satisfy randoms on the internet.

I really doubt the general Norwegian populace is happy about how Breivik is being treated pretty damn well by the Norwegian system, but that he still has the audacity to kick up a fuss and claim he's being poorly treated.

Norway should highly consider reinstating the death penalty for mass-murdering terrorists.

1, no
2, why

[Threlizdun]

Yes, he is a mass-murdering lunatic, but he's also a person.

Well...debatable.

No, his personhood is not in anyway debatable. Personhood does not vanish the moment you do something terrible.

[Diopolis]

Transfer him to an American prison. Call it a vacation.
Then see if he complains about his hotel.

[Sanctissima]

I really doubt the general Norwegian populace is happy about how Breivik is being treated pretty damn well by the Norwegian system, but that he still has the audacity to kick up a fuss and claim he's being poorly treated.

Norway should highly consider reinstating the death penalty for mass-murdering terrorists.

1, no
2, why

Because there's this thing called justice, and when you murder 77 of your own kinsmen, most of which are children for god's sakes, you deserve to die. Justice demands that a mass-murderer not be allowed to live when he did not extend the same courtesy to his victims.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -four.html

Is an example of mainstream media supporting these claims, so it's not surprising people would run with it.

As for settling on custody, that just shows an ignorance of mens issues when it comes to custody battles. There's often settling due to lawyers either advising to save their money and settle because there is little point, or the sentiment that there is little point.

I mean "reactionary" in a literal sense of "reacting to a thing".

So then what movements aren't reactionary?

[Threlizdun]

1, no
2, why

Because there's this thing called justice, and when you murder 77 of your own kinsmen, most of which are children for god's sakes, you deserve to die. Justice demands that a mass-murderer not be allowed to live when he did not extend the same courtesy to his victims.

Really? Could you please bring justice in here to explain this since it's apparently an objective entity rather than some abstract concept that varies in definition by more or less every single person?

[Sanctissima]

Because there's this thing called justice, and when you murder 77 of your own kinsmen, most of which are children for god's sakes, you deserve to die. Justice demands that a mass-murderer not be allowed to live when he did not extend the same courtesy to his victims.

Really? Could you please bring justice in here to explain this since it's apparently an objective entity rather than some abstract concept that varies in definition by more or less every single person?

-sigh-

If you're so in favour of rehabilitation, then answer me this.

If Hitler survived the war and was tried along with Himmler and his ilk during the Nuremberg Trials, should he have been given a second chance at life? Should the murderer of millions been given a chance at rehabilitation?

[Jochistan]

Well...debatable.

No, his personhood is not in anyway debatable. Personhood does not vanish the moment you do something terrible.

He and his kind (neo nazis) exist, beleive and act with no humanity.

[Imperializt Russia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9592433/Anders-Behring-Breiviks-mother-sexualised-him-when-he-was-four.html

Is an example of mainstream media supporting these claims, so it's not surprising people would run with it.

Yeah, fact-checking is for nerds, fags and Nature.

[Gauthier]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9592433/Anders-Behring-Breiviks-mother-sexualised-him-when-he-was-four.html

Is an example of mainstream media supporting these claims, so it's not surprising people would run with it.

Yeah, fact-checking is for nerds, fags and Nature.

And feminists, don't forget.

[Wallenburg]

1, no
2, why

Because there's this thing called justice, and when you murder 77 of your own kinsmen, most of which are children for god's sakes, you deserve to die. Justice demands that a mass-murderer not be allowed to live when he did not extend the same courtesy to his victims.

Really? Because Justice keeps telling me the exact opposite, and that killing people for killing people is both hypocritical and ineffective.

Really? Could you please bring justice in here to explain this since it's apparently an objective entity rather than some abstract concept that varies in definition by more or less every single person?

-sigh-

If you're so in favour of rehabilitation, then answer me this.

If Hitler survived the war and was tried along with Himmler and his ilk during the Nuremberg Trials, should he have been given a second chance at life? Should the murderer of millions been given a chance at rehabilitation?

Godwin's Law +1

[Gravlen]

Something might actually come of this. The courts might find that he's still dangerous but that it's disproportional to continue to keep him in strict isolation. He might get to interact with a few other people on a regular basis when all is said and done. It's unlikely, but still possible.

The man is a mass-murdering lunatic. I'm fairly certain, given the nature of his crimes, that the Norwegian authorities are well within their rights to control the flow of visitors and individuals in contact with Breivik, partly for his protection as well as society's.

That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is the proportionality of their control mechanisms, especially over such a long period of time.

[Vassenor]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9592433/Anders-Behring-Breiviks-mother-sexualised-him-when-he-was-four.html

Is an example of mainstream media supporting these claims, so it's not surprising people would run with it.

Yeah, fact-checking is for nerds, fags and Nature.

Fun fact: none of the peer reviewed articles I used when I wrote my assessed essay on the possible causes for his behaviour mentioned sexual abuse.

[Jochistan]

Godwin's Law +1

In a thread about a Neo Nazi Terrorist. How uncalled for.

[Imperializt Russia]

Really? Could you please bring justice in here to explain this since it's apparently an objective entity rather than some abstract concept that varies in definition by more or less every single person?

-sigh-

If you're so in favour of rehabilitation, then answer me this.

If Hitler survived the war and was tried along with Himmler and his ilk during the Nuremberg Trials, should he have been given a second chance at life? Should the murderer of millions been given a chance at rehabilitation?

Well, Hitler and the Nazi elite weren't Breivik, and Breivik wasn't a part of them, his own deluded fantasies notwithstanding, and the crimes and actions they committed radically different, and at radically different times in radically different political climes to today.

So yep, this is an intellectually vapid assertion.

[Gauthier]

-sigh-

If you're so in favour of rehabilitation, then answer me this.

If Hitler survived the war and was tried along with Himmler and his ilk during the Nuremberg Trials, should he have been given a second chance at life? Should the murderer of millions been given a chance at rehabilitation?

Godwin's Law +1

Can I get it enchanted to +2 or higher?

[The Greater Aryan Race]

The man is a mass-murdering lunatic. I'm fairly certain, given the nature of his crimes, that the Norwegian authorities are well within their rights to control the flow of visitors and individuals in contact with Breivik, partly for his protection as well as society's.

And all because feminists encouraged his molestation apparently.

Remember, feminism turns people into terrorists. *nods*

Yes, he is a mass-murdering lunatic, but he's also a person. The Norwegian prison system officially intends to rehabilitate everyone confined within it. Breivik still demands help and fair treatment. We're a social species. Isolation is devastating to us, and can absolutely be a form of torture. Yes, even someone like Breivik deserves humane treatment.

Sure I wouldn't mind allowing family visits but one has to consider the (possibly remote) likelihood that if he were allowed to mix and mingle freely with the rest of the prison population, he would either get jumped by them or worse, disseminate his ideas freely to them. If he were allowed free and unregulated correspondence with the outside world, who's to stop him from communicating with his supporters and other far-righties?

[Imperializt Russia]

Godwin's Law +1

Can I get it enchanted to +2 or higher?

Not without the Large Hakenkreuz Ember.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9592433/Anders-Behring-Breiviks-mother-sexualised-him-when-he-was-four.html

Is an example of mainstream media supporting these claims, so it's not surprising people would run with it.

Yeah, fact-checking is for nerds, fags and Nature.

Did you bother fact-checking gravlens links, or are you just being disingenuous?

Gravlen certainly is. Nowhere in her links is there anything saying he wasn't hit and abused, only that using this as a cause of the terrorism is not based in evidence, and that remote diagnosis shouldn't be attempted because of a thin source base and amounts to speculation.

So you've actually done the same thing you were accusing me of.

[Gravlen]

1, no
2, why

Because there's this thing called justice, and when you murder 77 of your own kinsmen, most of which are children for god's sakes, you deserve to die. Justice demands that a mass-murderer not be allowed to live when he did not extend the same courtesy to his victims.

That would run counter to the Norwegian sense of justice, where a large majority remains opposed to the death penalty even after the attacks.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, the common sense thing to do is for Norway to totally rework their prison system just so Breivik will suffer enough to satisfy randoms on the internet.

I really doubt the general Norwegian populace is happy about how Breivik is being treated pretty damn well by the Norwegian system, but that he still has the audacity to kick up a fuss and claim he's being poorly treated.

Norway should highly consider reinstating the death penalty for mass-murdering terrorists.

And change their laws so they can apply new punishments retroactively. And take away the right to appeal sentences or sue the government. And lower the standards of living in all their prisons. And then Breivik will be dead, every other prisoner in Norway will be living in squalor with no rights and everything will be fine forever.

[Uxupox]

Really? Could you please bring justice in here to explain this since it's apparently an objective entity rather than some abstract concept that varies in definition by more or less every single person?

-sigh-

If you're so in favour of rehabilitation, then answer me this.

If Hitler survived the war and was tried along with Himmler and his ilk during the Nuremberg Trials, should he have been given a second chance at life? Should the murderer of millions been given a chance at rehabilitation?

He would have become a fine upstanding German citizen if rehabilitated. He killed a few million people but oh well.