Breivik: The Moral Dilemma

[Risottia]

Norway, give Breivik a vacation and send him over to Italy. We'll arrange three months of 41-bis for him.

[Saiwania]

Yeah, but the PS2 had substantially better third-party support as a console and on the whole has "better" games. I need to get around to digging out my PS2 so I can dig out a bunch of my old PS1 titles.

You don't want to rely on consoles for old stuff, it isn't around forever after all. Just become comfortable with setting up emulators whenever possible if there isn't a PC version. The current recommended program for PS2 is PCSX2 and ePSXe for PS1 games.

The greatest downside is that the controls aren't as good, but it can be set up in a way where it is satisfactory. Other than that, it takes advantage of newer hardware and thus, an old game can run better than how it did when it got released. I'm fully convinced that emulation is the future of retro gaming, the only practical way for getting old software to work on current systems and get some use out of it. The point for going this route is that it is all digital.

[Imperializt Russia]

Emulation is usually unreasonably hard on processors. Especially for older games on very old consoles that need hardware emulation and not just software emulation.

So I understand, I'm not a PC gamer.
In an ideal, sensible world, out-of-print games would be reproduced as freeware ports for modern computer systems. But copyright is fucked.

[Gravlen]

According to Breivik, his current situation is worse than waterboarding. Well, the fact that he sometimes has to eat the same dinners two days in a row is worse than waterboarding. His isolation is an inhumane form of torture and is slowly killing him. He would like to simply be executed instead.

[Gravlen]

Bad shit did happen during Viking times, but that might be going too far back in time?

I live in a place where about half the places are named for Viking raiding. I think Scandinavia owes us reparations.

Probably. You're most likely owed a sheep and one metric ton of lutfisk. You know, to have sex upon.

[Gravlen]

Were the Vikings raised by women?

Most viking raiders *were* women
And yes, that means that all those men whining about how the vikings sacked their villages and monastries were beaten up by girls

That's not true.

While some recent headlines wanted women to make up a large part of the raiders, that's not what scientist have found.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Breivik is just an attention whore with plenty of free time on his hands, and the lenient Norwegian prison system just facilitates his attention whoring, that's all.

Too bad they can't send him to a Russian maximum-security prison for proper reeducation though. Instead of his personal luxury suite with internet access, TV and Xbox among other things, he'd get a barely-heated 2-by-4 cell with only a bed and a bucket to shit in, a 23-hour lockup time, two meals of thin soup that tastes worse than piss every day, be forbidden from sitting on the bed from 0800 to 1700, and a good beating from the guards whenever he as much as utters a sound without first being spoken to. Or a larger cell with a 200-pound murderer and cannibal named Kolya for company, who would doubtfully be deterred by his excuses of not being gay.

[Ifreann]

According to Breivik, his current situation is worse than waterboarding. Well, the fact that he sometimes has to eat the same dinners two days in a row is worse than waterboarding. His isolation is an inhumane form of torture and is slowly killing him. He would like to simply be executed instead.

I guess that's something he has in common with some of the people here.

---

I live in a place where about half the places are named for Viking raiding. I think Scandinavia owes us reparations.

Probably. You're most likely owed a sheep and one metric ton of lutfisk. You know, to have sex upon.

We'll take the sheep!

---

Breivik is just an attention whore with plenty of free time on his hands, and the lenient Norwegian prison system just facilitates his attention whoring, that's all.

Too bad they can't send him to a Russian maximum-security prison for proper reeducation though. Instead of his personal luxury suite with internet access, TV and Xbox among other things, he'd get...

Could you keep your fantasies to yourself, please?

[Azurius]

If he calls his isolating inhumane, then the Norwegian government should just have him transferred to general prison population.

Ideally with all the Arabic prisoners.

I totally agree, throw him in a prison with a high percentage of immigrants and let him rot there. Also no TV, playstation etc. for him anymore, he deserves neither of that.

[Alvecia]

If he calls his isolating inhumane, then the Norwegian government should just have him transferred to general prison population.

Ideally with all the Arabic prisoners.

I totally agree, throw him in a prison with a high percentage of immigrants and let him rot there. Also no TV, playstation etc. for him anymore, he deserves neither of that.

Because who needs legal consistency.

[Ifreann]

If he calls his isolating inhumane, then the Norwegian government should just have him transferred to general prison population.

Ideally with all the Arabic prisoners.

I totally agree, throw him in a prison with a high percentage of immigrants and let him rot there. Also no TV, playstation etc. for him anymore, he deserves neither of that.

Yes, every time someone appeals against their conditions in prison, put them in worse conditions. That'll show them that they have no rights. What could possibly go wrong?

[Azurius]

I totally agree, throw him in a prison with a high percentage of immigrants and let him rot there. Also no TV, playstation etc. for him anymore, he deserves neither of that.

Yes, every time someone appeals against their conditions in prison, put them in worse conditions. That'll show them that they have no rights. What could possibly go wrong?

They should have done that in the first place instead of putting him in some sort of goddamn "luxury prison". Prisons are there to deter and not to be a free and fun place to be.

[Vassenor]

Yes, every time someone appeals against their conditions in prison, put them in worse conditions. That'll show them that they have no rights. What could possibly go wrong?

They should have done that in the first place instead of putting him in some sort of goddamn "luxury prison". Prisons are there to deter and not to be a free and fun place to be.

Which is why Norway has one of the lowest rates of recidivism on the planet.

[Maineiacs]

According to Breivik, his current situation is worse than waterboarding. Well, the fact that he sometimes has to eat the same dinners two days in a row is worse than waterboarding. His isolation is an inhumane form of torture and is slowly killing him. He would like to simply be executed instead.

And that's what his real agenda is with all this nonsense. He wants to be a martyr.

[Ifreann]

Yes, every time someone appeals against their conditions in prison, put them in worse conditions. That'll show them that they have no rights. What could possibly go wrong?

They should have done that in the first place instead of putting him in some sort of goddamn "luxury prison".

Why?

Prisons are there to deter and not to be a free and fun place to be.

The "luxurious" Norwegian and Swedish prisons have given those countries enviably low recidivism rates. As noted a bit up-thread, Norway has never had a criminal like Breivik, unless we want to count the vikings. Clearly they're deterring criminals quite well without your help.

[Minoa]

Norwegians do not seem to give up hope on rehabilitating even the hardest offenders like Breivik.

My mind is not as strong as the Norwegians due to my poor health, but they should continue to resist the temptation to repeat the mistakes that the US and we in the UK have done to the offenders. After all, we are all human beings and giving up on hope could waste future talent.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Norwegians do not seem to give up hope on rehabilitating even the hardest offenders like Breivik.

My mind is not as strong as the Norwegians due to my poor health, but they should continue to resist the temptation to repeat the mistakes that the US and we in the UK have done to the offenders. After all, we are all human beings and giving up on hope could waste future talent.

Talent? Bah... Those are hardcore murderers you're talking about, for the love of gods! Maybe you can rehabilitate murderers who have killed in a moment of passion, but certainly not the likes of Breivik, who are driven by conviction and will stop at nothing. A bullet to the head is the only thing that can correct people like him. Or in the very least, a permanent lock-up without the option of parole - in which case convicts don't need rehabilitation anyway.

[Dahon]

Norwegians do not seem to give up hope on rehabilitating even the hardest offenders like Breivik.

My mind is not as strong as the Norwegians due to my poor health, but they should continue to resist the temptation to repeat the mistakes that the US and we in the UK have done to the offenders. After all, we are all human beings and giving up on hope could waste future talent.

Talent? Bah... Those are hardcore murderers you're talking about, for the love of gods! Maybe you can rehabilitate murderers who have killed in a moment of passion, but certainly not the likes of Breivik, who are driven by conviction and will stop at nothing. A bullet to the head is the only thing that can correct people like him. Or in the very least, a permanent lock-up without the option of parole - in which case convicts don't need rehabilitation anyway.

There's always the case of Karla Faye Tucker for those who think rehab is a virtue, even if the chances of him getting out are next to nil should he see the enormity of his crimes.

[Imperializt Russia]

Norwegians do not seem to give up hope on rehabilitating even the hardest offenders like Breivik.

My mind is not as strong as the Norwegians due to my poor health, but they should continue to resist the temptation to repeat the mistakes that the US and we in the UK have done to the offenders. After all, we are all human beings and giving up on hope could waste future talent.

Talent? Bah... Those are hardcore murderers you're talking about, for the love of gods! Maybe you can rehabilitate murderers who have killed in a moment of passion, but certainly not the likes of Breivik, who are driven by conviction and will stop at nothing. A bullet to the head is the only thing that can correct people like him. Or in the very least, a permanent lock-up without the option of parole - in which case convicts don't need rehabilitation anyway.

In the UK there have been some limited successes with very violent inmates.

People convicted for IRA-related killings have become members and directors of groups and programmes aimed to end violence in Northern Ireland. One particularly stark example is one man who was implicated in the Corporal Murders, a particularly brutal incident, who is now a leading figure in one such programme.
There are a number of stories in Britain of hardened drug dealers who, once they left prison, heading and taking senior roles in groups to combat drug gangs and prevent young people from joining them.

They are however very extreme and rare examples.

[Risottia]

Norwegians do not seem to give up hope on rehabilitating even the hardest offenders like Breivik.

Not only that.

The whole point of jailing people is that, until you are reasonably sure they're not more likely to commit crimes than the average citizen is, they have to be removed from society.
There's no need to add useless violence or discomfort to that. I just have to keep them away from society. Giving them a dirty, small cell isn't going to make them safer than a wide, clean cell.

[Gravlen]

Breivik is just an attention whore with plenty of free time on his hands, and the lenient Norwegian prison system just facilitates his attention whoring, that's all.

Too bad they can't send him to a Russian maximum-security prison for proper reeducation though. Instead of his personal luxury suite with internet access, [...]

He doesn't have a luxury suite, and he doesn't have internet access. Do pay attention.

[Wallenburg]

Breivik is just an attention whore with plenty of free time on his hands, and the lenient Norwegian prison system just facilitates his attention whoring, that's all.

Agreed.

Too bad they can't send him to a Russian maximum-security prison for proper reeducation though.

I prefer justice to torture.

Instead of his personal luxury suite with internet access, TV and Xbox among other things,

He has literally none of those but the TV, and I doubt it is a good one.

he'd get a barely-heated 2-by-4 cell with only a bed and a bucket to shit in,

Gratuitous.

a 23-hour lockup time,

What does that achieve?

two meals of thin soup that tastes worse than piss every day,

Torture.

be forbidden from sitting on the bed from 0800 to 1700,

Completely pointless.

and a good beating from the guards whenever he as much as utters a sound without first being spoken to.

What the fuck is that about? Torture is bad, m'kay?

Or a larger cell with a 200-pound murderer and cannibal named Kolya for company, who would doubtfully be deterred by his excuses of not being gay.

Seriously, that's some unbelievably messed up shit.

[Imperializt Russia]

Welcome to 2016, where prison rape is apparently still a punchline.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Breivik is just an attention whore with plenty of free time on his hands, and the lenient Norwegian prison system just facilitates his attention whoring, that's all.

Agreed.

Too bad they can't send him to a Russian maximum-security prison for proper reeducation though.

I prefer justice to torture.

Instead of his personal luxury suite with internet access, TV and Xbox among other things,

He has literally none of those but the TV, and I doubt it is a good one.

he'd get a barely-heated 2-by-4 cell with only a bed and a bucket to shit in,

Gratuitous.

a 23-hour lockup time,

What does that achieve?

two meals of thin soup that tastes worse than piss every day,

Torture.

be forbidden from sitting on the bed from 0800 to 1700,

Completely pointless.

and a good beating from the guards whenever he as much as utters a sound without first being spoken to.

What the fuck is that about? Torture is bad, m'kay?

Or a larger cell with a 200-pound murderer and cannibal named Kolya for company, who would doubtfully be deterred by his excuses of not being gay.

Seriously, that's some unbelievably messed up shit.

I gather that we have very different concepts of justice.

[Wallenburg]

Agreed.

I prefer justice to torture.

He has literally none of those but the TV, and I doubt it is a good one.

Gratuitous.

What does that achieve?

Torture.

Completely pointless.

What the fuck is that about? Torture is bad, m'kay?

Seriously, that's some unbelievably messed up shit.

I gather that we have very different concepts of justice.

Yes, my idea is upholding fundamental human rights and defending the people. Yours seems to be to torture and leave to be raped and murdered anyone who ends up on the wrong side of the law.