GOP Primary Megathread III: Third Time's A Charm

[Unified Governments]

Mob rule. Tyranny of the majority.

Representative democracy is not less "pure" than direct democracy.

Pure democracy. Direct democracy. Call it what you will. Mob rule and tyranny of the majority are what it results in.

[The Black Forrest]

No.

Oh damn well I guess I'll count on Hillary Clinton to solve it then.

There is where you fail. Expecting one person to solve it. Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, etc., would fail on that effort as well.

[Camicon]

Representative democracy is not less "pure" than direct democracy.

Pure democracy. Direct democracy. Call it what you will. Mob rule and tyranny of the majority are what it results in.

Only if you don't have things like a constitution, and judiciary. Which, to put it lightly, is a silly thing to assume.

[Unified Governments]

Pure democracy. Direct democracy. Call it what you will. Mob rule and tyranny of the majority are what it results in.

Only if you don't have things like a constitution, and judiciary. Which, to put it lightly, is a silly thing to assume.

Exactly what good are those things if all decisions are suddenly made by the people? "I don't like this constitution." "Let's repeal some amendments!"

Useless.

[Camicon]

Only if you don't have things like a constitution, and judiciary. Which, to put it lightly, is a silly thing to assume.

Exactly what good are those things if all decisions are suddenly made by the people? "I don't like this constitution." "Let's repeal some amendments!"

Useless.

Do you not understand how constitutions and such work? Amendment processes and the like? Direct democracy needn't sacrifice things such as a two-thirds vote.

[Geilinor]

Atlantic City hates Trump and Christie.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/trump-christie-atlantic-city-213928

[Unified Governments]

Exactly what good are those things if all decisions are suddenly made by the people? "I don't like this constitution." "Let's repeal some amendments!"

Useless.

Do you not understand how constitutions and such work? Amendment processes and the like? Direct democracy needn't sacrifice things such as a two-thirds vote.

Yes, and what if they got a two-thirds vote?

[Arkinesia]

With the possible exception of the more deluded Tea Baggers, nobody on either side wants that scenario. Democrats because obviously the Republican House is going to give it t Trump. Republicans because Trump and they would have zero credibility or legitimacy of any kind in the eyes of anyone except their own diehards. Democrats would make the last 6 years look like a glowing era of bipartisan productivity with their stonewalling, and the best case for the GOP Would be going nuclear on the filibuster and getting Trump to rubber stamp as much as possible before the inevitable midterm backlash.

Gore vs. Bush would look like a minor disagreement between old friends by comparison.

That's the frightening downside to all of this. A part of me wants Congress to hand the presidency to Johnson, but that would never happen.

I wouldn't be so sure. I think the GOP would leap at the chance to shirk Trump.

[Geilinor]

That's the frightening downside to all of this. A part of me wants Congress to hand the presidency to Johnson, but that would never happen.

I wouldn't be so sure. I think the GOP would leap at the chance to shirk Trump.

The GOP might take Trump so they can get him to do what they want. Johnson won't on social and foreign policy issues.

[Camicon]

Do you not understand how constitutions and such work? Amendment processes and the like? Direct democracy needn't sacrifice things such as a two-thirds vote.

Yes, and what if they got a two-thirds vote?

Then the constitution would be amended. Much that same as it would be in a constitutional monarchy, like Canada, or a republic, like the United States.

My point is that "mob rule and tyranny of the majority" are as much a threat under such systems as they are under a direct democracy. We counterbalance that threat with structures such as the Senate, judiciary bodies like the Supreme Court, and heavily entrenched constitutional rights.

I am not a proponent of direct democracy, because in all but the smallest of communities it become too unwieldy and ponderous to govern effectively; however, your apparently visceral dislike of direct democracy is misguided. The things you criticize it for are no less a problem under other democratic systems, and similarly can be addressed just as fully within a direct democracy as they are under other democratic systems.

[New Jerzylvania]

Atlantic City hates Trump and Christie.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/trump-christie-atlantic-city-213928

C.R.A.P. indeed.

...teach him to play Monopoly and how to sing in the rain. - from "Thick as a Brick - 2016 political version"

Monopoly, based on real estate in Atlantic City which Trump played.

[USS Monitor]

Vote Johnson damn it! He might get to debate with enough support, or at least get federal funding for the party.

why would anyone want that? he would only make it harder to highlight trump's faults in a debate.

He is threatening to kiss Trump if he can get on stage with him. There's gotta be something fun you can do with that image.

[USS Monitor]

That's the frightening downside to all of this. A part of me wants Congress to hand the presidency to Johnson, but that would never happen.

No one should want Congress to give the Presidency to someone who got fewer votes, as Johnson almost certainly would. That would almost certainly destroy most of whatever little faith remains in the Democratic system and enrage the public. I'd expect mass riots, minimum.

Unless you want America to fall and have no respect for the will of the people, there is no reason to want this. I wouldn't want my candidate to win that way. Because it wouldn't be a real win.

I'd rather see Johnson appointed by Congress than have Trump for president. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary appointed by Congress than have Trump for president, and I don't even plan on voting for Hillary. Trump is just that fucking awful.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Vote Johnson damn it! He might get to debate with enough support, or at least get federal funding for the party.

why would anyone want that? he would only make it harder to highlight trump's faults in a debate.

How? There would be two people highlighting his flaws, and two people highlighting Hillary's. It would be great.

[Ashmoria]

why would anyone want that? he would only make it harder to highlight trump's faults in a debate.

How? There would be two people highlighting his flaws, and two people highlighting Hillary's. It would be great.

the same way it didn't work in the republican debates. trump never even got to a 2 or 3 person debate. he realized that there would be no way for him to do his stupid hit and run thing with so few on the stage. the fewer on stage the more he has to talk about things other than insults and poll numbers.

[Eol Sha]

No one should want Congress to give the Presidency to someone who got fewer votes, as Johnson almost certainly would. That would almost certainly destroy most of whatever little faith remains in the Democratic system and enrage the public. I'd expect mass riots, minimum.

Unless you want America to fall and have no respect for the will of the people, there is no reason to want this. I wouldn't want my candidate to win that way. Because it wouldn't be a real win.

I'd rather see Johnson appointed by Congress than have Trump for president. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary appointed by Congress than have Trump for president, and I don't even plan on voting for Hillary. Trump is just that fucking awful.

My god, that'd destroy any and all political legitimacy the Democrats still have.

[Gauthier]

I'd rather see Johnson appointed by Congress than have Trump for president. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary appointed by Congress than have Trump for president, and I don't even plan on voting for Hillary. Trump is just that fucking awful.

My god, that'd destroy any and all political legitimacy the Democrats still have.

Especially if the Republican controlled House selects Hillary!

[Eol Sha]

My god, that'd destroy any and all political legitimacy the Democrats still have.

Especially if the Republican controlled House selects Hillary!

All you'd need is all the Dems and a few dozen Republicans. Congrats, Gauth, you've destroyed the political legitimacy of the Democrats!

[The Black Forrest]

Especially if the Republican controlled House selects Hillary!

All you'd need is all the Dems and a few dozen Republicans. Congrats, Gauth, you've destroyed the political legitimacy of the Democrats!

It would improve their standings.

Republicans think the Clinton's run the Seventh Level of Hell and to see them place her as POTUS would be an impressive act.

[Idzequitch]

Billy Joel zings Donald Trump at Madison Square Garden; Trump thanks him for the "very kind shoutout"

Billy Joel dedicated his performance of "The Entertainer" to Donald Trump, saying that Trump's political rise "has been very entertaining." Trump took it as a complement, but anyone who knows anything about Billy Joel will understand that this was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Can't stump the Trump? Looks like Trump just got stumped pretty easy to me.

[Arkinesia]

Jim Newell has a pretty good piece out in The Slate today that neatly analyzes how Trump got stumped by the media, and what it takes to beat him at his game.

Turns out that when the media questions his bullshit to his face in his press conferences, he's left defenseless.

[Khadgar]

Jim Newell has a pretty good piece out in The Slate today that neatly analyzes how Trump got stumped by the media, and what it takes to beat him at his game.

Turns out that when the media questions his bullshit to his face in his press conferences, he's left defenseless.

I think Romney proved that the media is pretty fucking spineless when it comes to calling candidates on their obvious lies. That's why Trump has gotten away with lying every damn day.

[MERIZoC]

Billy Joel zings Donald Trump at Madison Square Garden; Trump thanks him for the "very kind shoutout"

Billy Joel dedicated his performance of "The Entertainer" to Donald Trump, saying that Trump's political rise "has been very entertaining." Trump took it as a complement, but anyone who knows anything about Billy Joel will understand that this was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Can't stump the Trump? Looks like Trump just got stumped pretty easy to me.

If you think Trump doesn't know exactly what Billy Joel meant, you're kidding yourself.

Just in general people need to stop taking everything he says at face value.

[Ashmoria]

Jim Newell has a pretty good piece out in The Slate today that neatly analyzes how Trump got stumped by the media, and what it takes to beat him at his game.

Turns out that when the media questions his bullshit to his face in his press conferences, he's left defenseless.

he's not defenseless. he fights back stupidly. there is a difference.

[Ashmoria]

Billy Joel zings Donald Trump at Madison Square Garden; Trump thanks him for the "very kind shoutout"

Billy Joel dedicated his performance of "The Entertainer" to Donald Trump, saying that Trump's political rise "has been very entertaining." Trump took it as a complement, but anyone who knows anything about Billy Joel will understand that this was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Can't stump the Trump? Looks like Trump just got stumped pretty easy to me.

If you think Trump doesn't know exactly what Billy Joel meant, you're kidding yourself.

Just in general people need to stop taking everything he says at face value.

when has trump ever gone along with a joke at his expense?