Canada if Trump wins?

[Liriena]

Aaaaaaand? It still fell, because border walls are a stupid idea born from pure simplism.

The Berlin wall didn't collapse just because it was a wall. It endured for decades and absolutely accomplished what it was built for. If the USSR maintained a tight grip on power and the cold war political situation didn't change, there is no evidence that the Berlin wall would've fell. It would still be keeping people in to this day.

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

And, honestly? The more people beat their nationalist chests over their oh-so-precious borders, the less of a crap I give about the very concept of nations. You are effectively starting a human drama that affects the lives of millions over a few imaginary lines, and the increasingly obsolete notion, at least in my opinion, that those lines should weigh heavily on your own identity.

[Neo Hungary]

Aaaaaaand? It still fell, because border walls are a stupid idea born from pure simplism.

The Berlin wall didn't collapse just because it was a wall. It endured for decades and absolutely accomplished what it was built for. If the USSR maintained a tight grip on power and the cold war political situation didn't change, there is no evidence that the Berlin wall would've fell. It would still be keeping people in to this day. Hungary's border fence with Croatia has been a resounding success at putting a stop to the lion's share of Muslim migration into their country and the Israel border walls have been successful at reducing suicide bombings. Barriers serve many useful functions when implemented correctly.

Thank you. The difference between the walls of Berlin, Israel, Hungary and America is the fact that the former had armies guarding them. America has a SUV and one border patrol guy for every fifteen miles. The current wall is decent, but America needs manpower to actually patrol that wall otherwise it's just a waste of money.

[Liriena]

The Berlin wall didn't collapse just because it was a wall. It endured for decades and absolutely accomplished what it was built for. If the USSR maintained a tight grip on power and the cold war political situation didn't change, there is no evidence that the Berlin wall would've fell. It would still be keeping people in to this day. Hungary's border fence with Croatia has been a resounding success at putting a stop to the lion's share of Muslim migration into their country and the Israel border walls have been successful at reducing suicide bombings. Barriers serve many useful functions when implemented correctly.

Thank you. The difference between the walls of Berlin, Israel, Hungary and is the fact that the former had armies guarding them. America has a SUV and one border patrol guy for every fifteen miles. The current wall is decent, but America needs manpower to actually patrol that wall otherwise it's just a waste of money.

It will still be a waste of money even if you have a veritable army guarding it, because not all undocumented immigrants come that way.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

Thank you. The difference between the walls of Berlin, Israel, Hungary and is the fact that the former had armies guarding them. America has a SUV and one border patrol guy for every fifteen miles. The current wall is decent, but America needs manpower to actually patrol that wall otherwise it's just a waste of money.

It will still be a waste of money even if you have a veritable army guarding it, because not all undocumented immigrants come that way.

shhh don't burst their bubble

[Saiwania]

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

The point I made about the Berlin wall is that there were no inherent problems with it. It could very well have kept enduring if it had existed for long enough for there to be no push for any German reunification among east Germans. There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

There are no signs that national borders are obsolete in any sense of the term. Only regions which don't know what they hell they're doing such as the EU open themselves up to all of the developing world's problems when they don't have to.

[Liriena]

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

And how long do you think that wall is going to last?

There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

True, but there's a good reason for that: the countries on each side of that border are, technically speaking, at war.

[Gothic Graceland]

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

The point I made about the Berlin wall is that there were no inherent problems with it. It could very well have kept enduring if it had existed for long enough for there to be no push for any German reunification among east Germans. There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

There are no signs that national borders are obsolete in any sense of the term. Only regions which don't know what they hell they're doing such as the EU open themselves up to all of the developing world's problems when they don't have to.

It's true. Hungary's border has done a phenomenal job. Border crossing was once 75k a day and now it's roughly ten people a month.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

The point I made about the Berlin wall is that there were no inherent problems with it. It could very well have kept enduring if it had existed for long enough for there to be no push for any German reunification among east Germans. There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

There are no signs that national borders are obsolete in any sense of the term. Only regions which don't know what they hell they're doing such as the EU open themselves up to all of the developing world's problems when they don't have to.

Because the refugees could not go by plane m8. and hungary doesn't exactly have surrounding water

[Gothic Graceland]

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

And how long do you think that wall is going to last?

There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

True, but there's a good reason for that: the countries on each side of that border are, technically speaking, at war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

[Washington Resistance Army]

And how long do you think that wall is going to last?


True, but there's a good reason for that: the countries on each side of that border are, technically speaking, at war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

Yeah, they've had a ceasefire since but they are still at war.

Either way a wall across the entire Mexican border is entirely unfeasible.

[Gothic Graceland]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

Yeah, they've had a ceasefire since but they are still at war.

Either way a wall across the entire Mexican border is entirely unfeasible.

They're not at war. If they were at war American troops would be on the Korean peninsula AND invading North Korea..

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah, they've had a ceasefire since but they are still at war.

Either way a wall across the entire Mexican border is entirely unfeasible.

They're not at war. If they were at war American troops would be on the Korean peninsula.

There ARE American troops on the Korean peninsula, US Forces Korea to be specific, it's where my dad was stationed.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

Yeah, they've had a ceasefire since but they are still at war.

Either way a wall across the entire Mexican border is entirely unfeasible.

They're not at war. If they were at war American troops would be on the Korean peninsula AND invading North Korea..

well...by that logic, good ol murica should be invading Russia right now..they didn't sign a peace treaty with Japan after ww2

[Gothic Graceland]

They're not at war. If they were at war American troops would be on the Korean peninsula.

There ARE American troops on the Korean peninsula, US Forces Korea to be specific, it's where my dad was stationed.

Your dad didn't fire a single shot, did he?

It's NOT a war when both sides are in a CEASE FIRE.

[Elysian Kentarchy]

Nor do I. And the ones who leave, don't come back. We'll handle it from here.

And although this would not be feasible, ideally they would be barred from returning.

I mean, if you can't handle the country at its "worst," then you shouldn't be able to reap it at its "best."

A metaphor: I'm in my school's marching band, and perhaps the most useless and deadweighted members are the band are the ones that only stick around for trips. The most absolutely aggravating thing I witnessed was the sheer volume of students who didn't participate in 2013 or 2015, but suddenly showed up in the 2014 season because we went to the Macy's Parade that year. It feels unfair; if you want to have the right to contribute, you shouldn't dart in and out whenever you feel like the situation will benefit you the most. It's unfair to the people who stick around and kind of selfish and irresilient.

Unfortunately President Ford set the standard of forgiving anyone who runs away to Canada, given his treatment of draft dodgers who fled to Canada to avoid the draft. Otherwise yes I support that but it would be hard to legalize without setting down strict rules as to what would cause you to lose your citizenship.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

There ARE American troops on the Korean peninsula, US Forces Korea to be specific, it's where my dad was stationed.

Your dad didn't fire a single shot, did he?

It's NOT a war when both sides are in a CEASE FIRE.

CEASEFIRE does not mean that theres no war

[Gothic Graceland]

Your dad didn't fire a single shot, did he?

It's NOT a war when both sides are in a CEASE FIRE.

CEASEFIRE does not mean that theres no war

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

[Ifreann]

There ARE American troops on the Korean peninsula, US Forces Korea to be specific, it's where my dad was stationed.

Your dad didn't fire a single shot, did he?

It's NOT a war when both sides are in a CEASE FIRE.

Yes it is. Ceasefires only happen when there's an armed conflict. People have to be firing before they can agree to cease doing so.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm not a huge fan of alternate history. I like dealing in terms of actual history. And in actual history, the Berlin Wall fell, because of course it did. Because arbitrarily placing a physical obstacle between peoples who have historically been very close to one another on several levels is asking for that physical obstacle to eventually fall under the weight of its own simplistic idiocy.

Walls don't solve the world's problems. At best, they contain them for a time.

Of course it does. Did I not tell you that Hungary's formidable border defenses which it built has successfully put a stop to the heavy flow of migration into their country which they did not want in the first place? Hungary chose the most effective and common sense solution to a problem they had, they physically put a stop to it so the people coming have to go somewhere else or not go to begin with.

The point I made about the Berlin wall is that there were no inherent problems with it. It could very well have kept enduring if it had existed for long enough for there to be no push for any German reunification among east Germans. There is no indication that the Korea DMZ for example, will ever be dismantled anytime soon.

There are no signs that national borders are obsolete in any sense of the term. Only regions which don't know what they hell they're doing such as the EU open themselves up to all of the developing world's problems when they don't have to.

The Berlin wall was not a single wall however, it had another wall built at a considerable distance, and the space in between was called a "dead zone" for a very good reason: people were shot on sight if they were anywhere in that dead zone.

I understand you love complete and utter disregard for human rights but please, making something like the Berlin wall over the U.S. southern border is completely unfeasible and unrealistic.

[Big Jim P]

Your dad didn't fire a single shot, did he?

It's NOT a war when both sides are in a CEASE FIRE.

Yes it is. Ceasefires only happen when there's an armed conflict. People have to be firing before they can agree to cease doing so.

MY dad served (in the Airforce) during the shooting part of the war. Gods I am old.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

CEASEFIRE does not mean that theres no war

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

A ceasefire is not an official declaration of the end of a war. It just means a ceasefire.

A peace accord is the official end of a war, but a ceasefire is not.

[BrightonBurg]

If the US made it through WW2, W Bush,and Obama,it will make it through Trump!

Have a beer ( or 12 ) and relax

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Aaaaaaand? It still fell, because border walls are a stupid idea born from pure simplism.

The Berlin wall didn't collapse just because it was a wall. It endured for decades and absolutely accomplished what it was built for. If the USSR maintained a tight grip on power and the cold war political situation didn't change, there is no evidence that the Berlin wall would've fell. It would still be keeping people in to this day. Hungary's border fence with Croatia has been a resounding success at putting a stop to the lion's share of Muslim migration into their country and the Israel border walls have been successful at reducing suicide bombings. Barriers serve many useful functions when implemented correctly.

There's plenty of evidence that tells us that the Berlin wall would've fell eventually.

The thing is the political situation never changed on the satellite countries, the economic situation however did.

[Big Jim P]

If the US made it through WW2, W Bush,and Obama,it will make it through Trump!

Have a beer ( or 12 ) and relax

We even survived kicking our own asses in the Civil War. We will even survive if hillary or bernie is elected.

[Ifreann]

If the US made it through WW2, W Bush,and Obama,it will make it through Trump!

Have a beer ( or 12 ) and relax

12 beers over 4 or 8 years sounds woefully inadequate.