Reinstate the Bellamy Salute

[USS Monitor]

Why? It gives kids a sense of loyalty and identity to their homeland.

Because every other country on the planet is a lawless anarchy because the people aren't forced to kowtow to the flag on a daily basis.

It probably says a lot about people in America if people think that not being forced to salute the flag will result in another revolution.

It's like religious people that think we'll all turn into rapists and murderers if we don't believe in God. Some people just aren't very logical.

[Empire of Narnia]

That looks like the Nazi salute dude.

[The Alma Mater]

Because every other country on the planet is a lawless anarchy because the people aren't forced to kowtow to the flag on a daily basis.

It probably says a lot about people in America if people think that not being forced to salute the flag will result in another revolution.

It's like religious people that think we'll all turn into rapists and murderers if we don't believe in God. Some people just aren't very logical.

Actually, it is very logical. What they are saying is that the only thing that is stopping them from being rapist murders is the watchful gaze from God above - and that the only reason they love their country is that in their youth they had to state that every single day.

Scary, but logical.

[Europaher]

I support the Pledge and think many young liberals (especially in NSG) are drastically overreacting about it, but reintroducing the Bellamy Salute won't go well with the vast majority of people, and it's just distasteful.

[USS Monitor]

Or to put it another way: Demanding a daily display of loyalty from the populace? How very North Korean of you.

That's not even close to what the US was fighting for in any recent war.

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

[Europaher]

That's not even close to what the US was fighting for in any recent war.

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

So the invasion of Afghanistan wasn't to kill bin Landen, who killed many American people and attempted to destroy our principles of freedom and democracy?

[The Alma Mater]

That's not even close to what the US was fighting for in any recent war.

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

So the invasion of Afghanistan wasn't to kill bin Landen, who killed many American people and attempted to destroy our principles of freedom and democracy?

Nope. Where did you get that silly idea ?

[USS Monitor]

You think that people serve so that children have to salute a flag? Christ you're insulting veterans with that...

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm responding to Vassenors earlier statement that "Demanding a daily display of loyalty from the populance? How very North Korean of you."
We shouldn't force people to make and pledge of loyalty, but we should remember that their freedom to do so has been protected by men and women who all gave some, some giving all, for their freedoms.

We should also remember that defense contractors' bottom lines and George W Bush's fragile ego have been protected by men and women who they sent to die needlessly when our freedom was not threatened.

[Europaher]

So the invasion of Afghanistan wasn't to kill bin Landen, who killed many American people and attempted to destroy our principles of freedom and democracy?

Nope. Where did you get that silly idea ?

Except it was, and unlike the WMDs supposedly held in Iraq, bin Landen was found and killed.

[Slakonian]

The fucking Nazis abused the salute, same with swastikas & the toothbrush moustache so there is no chance it will ever be reinstated as it is associated with them. Nuff said

[USS Monitor]

I never said that, but I would say the same thing I said if I was British,French or Greek and my country had some form of pledge of allegiance.

Well what would you say to British veteran who says your opinion on this is bullshit?

I agree, and being a British vet is way cooler than whatever Zelent is peddling. Some American vets are cool too -- like Dyakovo was always good to have around in this type of debate -- just not the people who do the guilt trip shit and expect everyone to kiss up.

[USS Monitor]

He looks a bit young to be a WWII vet...

That's the magic of Rogaine and Olay rejuvenating skin lotion.

[USS Monitor]

That's not even close to what the US was fighting for in any recent war.

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

So the invasion of Afghanistan wasn't to kill bin Landen, who killed many American people and attempted to destroy our principles of freedom and democracy?

It was to kill Bin Laden, and I think it was reasonable to go to war. But Bin Laden's goal had nothing to do with destroying our principles of freedom and democracy, and he wasn't enough of a threat to put the Union's existence at risk. If we hadn't gone to war, we would still have democracy and constitutional rights.

[Novorobo]

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

I have a new signature.

On a related note, yes, I both defended the bellamy salute and criticized the pledge of allegiance, but I figure so long as we have the pledge... and so long as getting rid of it doesn't seem likely any time soon... then tying it to be bellamy salute seems like a means to co-ordinate a way to deprive it of its Nazi connotations.

EDIT:

Well what would you say to British veteran who says your opinion on this is bullshit?

I agree, and being a British vet is way cooler than whatever Zelent is peddling. Some American vets are cool too -- like Dyakovo was always good to have around in this type of debate -- just not the people who do the guilt trip shit and expect everyone to kiss up.

I do think we should be skeptical of claims that soldiers would post on NSG; one would expect them to consider practice at the gun range so they don't get killed more important than debating practice.

[Brandenbourg-Anhalt]

No. Anything that looks remotely like a nazi/fascist salute should not in any way be officially or unofficially sanctioned or condoned by any state/public institution or organisation.

[New Waterford]

Even if the Nazi connotations were non-existent, the salute symbolises subservience to an inherently oppressive and hierarchical institution.

[Ifreann]

The Nazis stole this salute. Our reluctance to reinstate it only lends it its power.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 8-year-olds saluting a flag in any form. It's kinda cultish...

But if we don't emulate the Nazis then the Nazis win!

[Grenartia]

Why would you reintroduce it?

Because I am a far-right ultra nationalist anti fascist.

Because its tradition and what we were doing long before the fascists started using it.

Tradition for the sake of tradition alone is stupid. It is useless, and arguably a form of necromancy.

Unless you want to start encouraging people to put candles on their Christmas trees instead of lightbulbs. Or to not use basic sanitary practices, just like our ancestors did tens of thousands of years ago. Its traditional, after all.

[Grenartia]

That's not even close to what the US was fighting for in any recent war.

If people want to sign up for the military and the government wants to send them to do stupid shit, that is their problem. I didn't ask them to, and neither did some random kid who doesn't want to stand for the pledge. So spare us the guilt trip. What you're doing is basically like parking your car in someone's driveway, then going up to the door, handing them the key, and telling them they owe you $10,000 for the car. If they didn't ask to buy the car, they don't owe you money -- and if I didn't ask anyone to go to war, then I don't owe them any sort of patriotic loyalty or gratitude.

Besides, if you have to literally guilt trip somebody into doing something, does that thing really need to be done? To say nothing of the fact that a display of loyalty means nothing if it is coerced (which guilt tripping is a form of).

[Grenartia]

Well what would you say to British veteran who says your opinion on this is bullshit?

I agree, and being a British vet is way cooler than whatever Zelent is peddling. Some American vets are cool too -- like Dyakovo was always good to have around in this type of debate -- just not the people who do the guilt trip shit and expect everyone to kiss up.

Lord Xenu, I miss Dya.

[Greed and Death]

President Trump has already reinstated the Bellamy Salute.

[Ifreann]

President Trump has already reinstated the Bellamy Salute.

That's the Trump Salute.

[Fartsniffage]

President Trump has already reinstated the Bellamy Salute.

That's the Trump Salute.

Raise your right hand and then check your toupee is still in place?

[The Two Jerseys]

That's the Trump Salute.

Raise your right hand and then check your toupee is still in place?

I think it's something like the "going over your head" motion.

Not sure though if saying "Whoosh!" while doing it is required...

[Fartsniffage]

Raise your right hand and then check your toupee is still in place?

I think it's something like the "going over your head" motion.

Not sure though if saying "Whoosh!" while doing it is required...

If it isn't then it should be. Come on Trump, what's your position on whooshing?