The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Geilinor]

So now the IMF are saying Brexit would be a bad, bad thing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36024492

Any pro-exit people prepared to challenge the IMF?

Come on, it's common knowledge that the IMF is basically the Fifth Communist Internationale led by the Capitalist Jews of the Bilderberg and by Angela Merkel!

I'm predicting cries of "Lagarde is an anti-British Frenchie!"

[Geilinor]

That would say more about the British public than anything else.

The American public have the same reaction, as do most nations with foreign meddling.

Summers is an economist, he shouldn't be ignored because he could have a point.

[Napkiraly]

I'm perfectly aware. I look down upon those reactions as well.

I don't. If a country can't conduct diplomacy without publicly telling another countries electorate what to do then they're not very good at it.

Of course, I don't want us to leave the EU, but it shouldn't have foreign governments stating their opinion. Potential effects, sure, but not direct endorsement of either side. If the Queen can't, neither can a foreign head of state.

It depends on the issue at hand. And foreign countries will voice how an important vote will impact bilateral and multilateral relations.

The Queen cannot due to British law; foreign government, or former government, officials are not held to this law.

[Dooom35796821595]

The American public have the same reaction, as do most nations with foreign meddling.

Summers is an economist, he shouldn't be ignored because he could have a point.

Economists can only agree on the fact that they can never agree with each other. He might be right, he might be wrong.

I don't. If a country can't conduct diplomacy without publicly telling another countries electorate what to do then they're not very good at it.

Of course, I don't want us to leave the EU, but it shouldn't have foreign governments stating their opinion. Potential effects, sure, but not direct endorsement of either side. If the Queen can't, neither can a foreign head of state.

It depends on the issue at hand. And foreign countries will voice how an important vote will impact bilateral and multilateral relations.

The Queen cannot due to British law; foreign government, or former government, officials are not held to this law.

But they can be held to the same standard. Call their Ambassador and give them a good talking to, that's the British way.

Besides, we're the fifth largest economy in the world, we are significant in or out of the EU.

[Napkiraly]

Just not as significant. Especially when it comes to Europe. And most likely international eventually.

[Dooom35796821595]

Just not as significant. Especially when it comes to Europe. And most likely international eventually.

The EU is becoming a overly bureaucratic stagnant wasteland and is doomed to decline without serious reform. The only reason I don't support a British exit is because I have even less confidence in the current state of British politics. There are 27 member nations, we're the second largest economicaly, largest militarily, largest soft power. The EU would lose out more from the UK leaving then the UK would.

Besides, it's not like I've seen any serious arguments from either side other then mud slinging and fear mongering.

[Valaran]

Come on, it's common knowledge that the IMF is basically the Fifth Communist Internationale led by the Capitalist Jews of the Bilderberg and by Angela Merkel!

I'm predicting cries of "Lagarde is an anti-British Frenchie!"

I saw one of those in the UK politics thread, iirc

:/

[CAT XIII]

Personally, I think we should stay and try to fix the EU instead of being nuisances and pulling out before it all falls apart.

[Olivaero]

Just not as significant. Especially when it comes to Europe. And most likely international eventually.

The EU is becoming a overly bureaucratic stagnant wasteland and is doomed to decline without serious reform. The only reason I don't support a British exit is because I have even less confidence in the current state of British politics. There are 27 member nations, we're the second largest economicaly, largest militarily, largest soft power. The EU would lose out more from the UK leaving then the UK would.

Besides, it's not like I've seen any serious arguments from either side other then mud slinging and fear mongering.

Without the UK the EU is still the second largest economy in the world. I think it's really silly to argue that 420 million people are hurt more by 60 million people leaving than the 60 million are by leaving the 420 million. It's all well and good saying how important the UK is on it's own but the importance of the EU combined is head and shoulders above that.

[Napkiraly]

Just not as significant. Especially when it comes to Europe. And most likely international eventually.

The EU is becoming a overly bureaucratic stagnant wasteland and is doomed to decline without serious reform. The only reason I don't support a British exit is because I have even less confidence in the current state of British politics. There are 27 member nations, we're the second largest economicaly, largest militarily, largest soft power. The EU would lose out more from the UK leaving then the UK would.

Besides, it's not like I've seen any serious arguments from either side other then mud slinging and fear mongering.

Britain only gains from an exit if the EU dissolves. If it doesn't, Britain will lose out since other countries will look to the EU for economic gains and diplomatic intervention - not the UK. Also, I'll point out that France has the largest military in the EU.

[Dooom35796821595]

The EU is becoming a overly bureaucratic stagnant wasteland and is doomed to decline without serious reform. The only reason I don't support a British exit is because I have even less confidence in the current state of British politics. There are 27 member nations, we're the second largest economicaly, largest militarily, largest soft power. The EU would lose out more from the UK leaving then the UK would.

Besides, it's not like I've seen any serious arguments from either side other then mud slinging and fear mongering.

Without the UK the EU is still the second largest economy in the world. I think it's really silly to argue that 420 million people are hurt more by 60 million people leaving than the 60 million are by leaving the 420 million. It's all well and good saying how important the UK is on it's own but the importance of the EU combined is head and shoulders above that.

It's the second largest economy of the EU, and it's not going to sever all contact. It'll just have to compete on the global market instead of pandering to EU nations. Not to mention the fact that it will destabilise the EUs political landscape making it more likley for other nations to leave the crumbling mess. It's like how we can still cooperate with the USA, the largest economy on the planet without being part of the US.

It's like how Spain dosen't want to lose Catalonia, or the US wouldn't want to lose Texas or California. Exept the UK is in a better position for total independance then those examples. Just because they still make up the bulk, dosen't mean they aren't hit by the loss of a highly developed part of its membership.

The EU is becoming a overly bureaucratic stagnant wasteland and is doomed to decline without serious reform. The only reason I don't support a British exit is because I have even less confidence in the current state of British politics. There are 27 member nations, we're the second largest economicaly, largest militarily, largest soft power. The EU would lose out more from the UK leaving then the UK would.

Besides, it's not like I've seen any serious arguments from either side other then mud slinging and fear mongering.

Britain only gains from an exit if the EU dissolves. If it doesn't, Britain will lose out since other countries will look to the EU for economic gains and diplomatic intervention - not the UK. Also, I'll point out that France has the largest military in the EU.

Collapse certainly is a possibility. And how exactly does doing a country look to the EU? It has to deal with the countries in the EU. Besides, who actually has power in the EU? France, Germany and the UK. If the UK left it would still be a major player, and still likley work with the EU with the option not to.

And the French military is only bigger on paper, the British is far superior.

[Valaran]

And the French military is only bigger on paper, the British is far superior.

'Far better' might be pushing it a touch. Relatively speaking, there's not a massive amount of difference between the two.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm perfectly aware. I look down upon those reactions as well.

I don't. If a country can't conduct diplomacy without publicly telling another countries electorate what to do then they're not very good at it.

Of course, I don't want us to leave the EU, but it shouldn't have foreign governments stating their opinion. Potential effects, sure, but not direct endorsement of either side. If the Queen can't, neither can a foreign head of state.

Dear Lizzie doesn't get a say because her political status and that of the royals generally is convoluted at best.

Foreign heads of state have no such issue and are free to make statements as they see fit.

[Napkiraly]

And the French military is only bigger on paper, the British is far superior.

'Far better' might be pushing it a touch. Relatively speaking, there's not a massive amount of difference between the two.

And the French have more active troops, though I think the UK has more reservists.

Also the power players were once GER+FRA+UK

Now, it's just GER+FRA with a heavy tilt to GER. The UK has squandered tons of its political capital since 2010.

[Olivaero]

Without the UK the EU is still the second largest economy in the world. I think it's really silly to argue that 420 million people are hurt more by 60 million people leaving than the 60 million are by leaving the 420 million. It's all well and good saying how important the UK is on it's own but the importance of the EU combined is head and shoulders above that.

It's the second largest economy of the EU, and it's not going to sever all contact. It'll just have to compete on the global market instead of pandering to EU nations. Not to mention the fact that it will destabilise the EUs political landscape making it more likley for other nations to leave the crumbling mess. It's like how we can still cooperate with the USA, the largest economy on the planet without being part of the US.

It's like how Spain dosen't want to lose Catalonia, or the US wouldn't want to lose Texas or California. Exept the UK is in a better position for total independance then those examples. Just because they still make up the bulk, dosen't mean they aren't hit by the loss of a highly developed part of its membership.

Did I say anything about severing all contact? I said we would be hurt more by leaving them then they will be by us leaving them. The UK is still at a point where independence is feasible sure but we're not talking about that, we're talking about how important we'll be afterwoods and whether that importance will be diminished if we leave the EU. Have you considered that part of the soft power that the UK has is because of it's membership of the EU? It's not all just the suave men in suits and the queen who make our diplomatic efforts excellent the various organisations we are part of each add to that clout. We leave the EU, we lose a seat at that particular table.

[Vassenor]

So this is what happens when you ask a Leave campaigner for actual evidence.

[Aelex]

And the French have more active troops, though I think the UK has more reservists.

Also the power players were once GER+FRA+UK

Now, it's just GER+FRA with a heavy tilt to GER. The UK has squandered tons of its political capital since 2010.

More troops, more nukes, a slightly better equipment and, rather ironically, a navy a little bit better.
One would be fooling himself by thinking that the french army is superior "only in paper".

Anyway, the U.K have indeed grown more and more isolationist and so do France, tho not so much on an international plan (given our continuous interventions in our old colonies to protect our interests) than on an European one as people are growing more and more delusional of the E.U but stills view it as somekind of arranged marriage you never really wanted but are stuck in.

And I just wanted to precise to Doom, the U.K's economy isn't the second in the E.U with a lot of advance. There is something like 0.02 or so trillions of difference between it's GDP and France's one, and, given that a good lot of companies precisely threatened to leave the U.K for France if the Brexit happened; you can be sure that British economy will takes a serious blow if it does leave the E.U.

[Frank Zipper]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

[Socialist Czechia]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

European Union was a promising political experiment.

Was.

So why not to accept the inevitable and stop pretending it can be saved? We can go back to EEC. Tourism and trade are still good, but these buildings in Brussels and Strasbourg do more harm than good.

[Frank Zipper]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

European Union was a promising political experiment.

Was.

So why not to accept the inevitable and stop pretending it can be saved? We can go back to EEC. Tourism and trade are still good, but these buildings in Brussels and Strasbourg do more harm than good.

Please don't quote me if you are not replying to my post.

[Vassenor]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

European Union was a promising political experiment.

Was.

So why not to accept the inevitable and stop pretending it can be saved? We can go back to EEC. Tourism and trade are still good, but these buildings in Brussels and Strasbourg do more harm than good.

[citation needed]

[Valaran]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

Don't forget puppets.

And of the polls I've seen, that's about in line (sometimes even above average) for opinions of the 18-34 Age range.

[Frank Zipper]

So the poll in this thread, of the people who say they live in the UK just under 58% say they favour remaining. A lead, but not a comfortable one, given that the demographics of NSG are weighted heavily towards young people.

Don't forget puppets.

And of the polls I've seen, that's about in line (sometimes even above average) for opinions of the 18-34 Age range.

My assumption was that the kind of fools who like to use puppets to influence polls are probably equally distributed across the political spectrum.

[Valaran]

Don't forget puppets.

And of the polls I've seen, that's about in line (sometimes even above average) for opinions of the 18-34 Age range.

My assumption was that the kind of fools who like to use puppets to influence polls are probably equally distributed across the political spectrum.

heh. Maybe, but I do remember how lopsided that UKIP poll on the UK politics thread became...

[Vassenor]

My assumption was that the kind of fools who like to use puppets to influence polls are probably equally distributed across the political spectrum.

heh. Maybe, but I do remember how lopsided that UKIP poll on the UK politics thread became...

That was mostly all Americans rocking up to vote for the ones who most closely matched GOP rhetoric.