The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Imperializt Russia]

1.6% a year benefit that we won't even see for fourteen years, you'd do well to note.

[Teemant]

I'll be voting to leave and once the Mayoral campaign is done will actively campaign to leave. Personally I think the best circumstance would be to leave the EU but remain in the EEA free trade area.

Remaining in the EEA would mean that United Kingdom would still have to adopt EU laws and legislations like they do now.

[Risottia]

I'll be voting to leave and once the Mayoral campaign is done will actively campaign to leave. Personally I think the best circumstance would be to leave the EU but remain in the EEA free trade area.

Remaining in the EEA would mean that United Kingdom would still have to adopt EU laws and legislations like they do now.

Under the Bruxheel but without a voice to whine about it. It would be deliciously ironic.

[Risottia]

EU regiments when?

There shouldn't be EU mandated military forces, we should instead keep out national armies and hope for the best.

And would be your best hope be? Italy attacking Austria? Poland attacking Sweden over Lithuania?
Because unless you hope for that, national armies are totally useless.

[Risottia]

I am fairly certain, that Canada and Australia are more important for Britain than Finland or Italy.
Or France.

[Imperializt Russia]

There shouldn't be EU mandated military forces, we should instead keep out national armies and hope for the best.

And would be your best hope be? Italy attacking Austria? Poland attacking Sweden over Lithuania?
Because unless you hope for that, national armies are totally useless.

There are valid questions over at what point a completely mixed EU army will function well.

Rather having each country maintain "an army" which then shunts brigades and battalions to EU combat zones would be the simplest and least controversial manner it would work.
At the very least, as an early transitional stage.

[Risottia]

And would be your best hope be? Italy attacking Austria? Poland attacking Sweden over Lithuania?
Because unless you hope for that, national armies are totally useless.

There are valid questions over at what point a completely mixed EU army will function well.

Rather having each country maintain "an army" which then shunts brigades and battalions to EU combat zones would be the simplest and least controversial manner it would work.
At the very least, as an early transitional stage.

Of course, but the main points of that transitional stage would be sharing strategic objectives, materiel procurements and état-majeurs. Lower the costs, increase the efficience.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yeah, you won't be getting shared materiel for decades in a joint EU army.
There's too much to replace and too much disagreement.

Because, of course, there is no "best".

[Harold I]

I want the UK to leave the EU because I believe that we could do so much better as a country outside of a union that is not democratic, that does not represent what the UK wants and increasingly seems to be dominated by Germany. The argument for Brexit to me is one of hope, not one of fear.

The reasons for Brexit are very simple, the most important to myself is a question of sovereignty. Whether the percentage of UK law passed in the EU is 7% or 70%, to me, we shouldn't have laws enforced on us that hasn't been debated in our House of Commons. The current arrangement is totally unacceptable. Decisions that affect our country should be made in London, not Brussels. The EU legislation that has been passed is hurting our economy through overregulation, and it's not helping small businesses that do not trade to Europe, the businesses that are so important to the UK's economy. As well as this, the UK still does not have the right to veto legislation on its own without the support of other European parliaments. Great deal Cameron negotiated there.

But it is also a questions of safety. I am fearful that the UK will have to take "migrants" from Greece and other Mediterranean countries. I sympathise with those who are genuinely fleeing persecution, and if they have nothing to hide, they should have documents proving their identity. For all we know, there could be a large number of people that will commit acts of terrorism such as in Belgium and France. If that's the future of Europe, then no thanks. I believe we should close the border completely, and work on integrating everybody into society that is already here so that we also improve race relations here because they are far from perfect.

[Harold I]

I'll be voting to leave and once the Mayoral campaign is done will actively campaign to leave. Personally I think the best circumstance would be to leave the EU but remain in the EEA free trade area.

Remaining in the EEA would mean that United Kingdom would still have to adopt EU laws and legislations like they do now.

But we would have the ability to completely ignore legislation that we do not want to pass. And companies would only have to do so if trading to another EU country.

[Imperializt Russia]

Remaining in the EEA would mean that United Kingdom would still have to adopt EU laws and legislations like they do now.

But we would have the ability to completely ignore legislation that we do not want to pass. And companies would only have to do so if trading to another EU country.

No we wouldn't.
We'd have to abide by rafts of the stuff, without having any input on them.

Unlike now.

[Harold I]

But we would have the ability to completely ignore legislation that we do not want to pass. And companies would only have to do so if trading to another EU country.

No we wouldn't.
We'd have to abide by rafts of the stuff, without having any input on them.

Unlike now.

Oh right. Well a strengthened reason to leave outright then.

[Imperializt Russia]

No we wouldn't.
We'd have to abide by rafts of the stuff, without having any input on them.

Unlike now.

Oh right. Well a strengthened reason to leave outright then.

And face high tariffs with the region that we do like a third of our current trade with?

[Risottia]

Yeah, you won't be getting shared materiel for decades in a joint EU army.
There's too much to replace and too much disagreement.

Because, of course, there is no "best".

Well to a point. There's a lot of materiel shared by various armed forces of the EU countries. Just the first that come to my mind: Harrier, Eurofighter, Gripen, Tornado, NH90; Leopard 2, PzH2000, Lince; FREMM, Type 212A; Meteor, Aster, ASRAAM, AMRAAM, Milan, Javelin...

[Harold I]

Oh right. Well a strengthened reason to leave outright then.

And face high tariffs with the region that we do like a third of our current trade with?

We have the rest of the world to do trade with and the ability to make our own trade deals too. And trade to the EU has been decreasing over the past few years.

[Risottia]

Remaining in the EEA would mean that United Kingdom would still have to adopt EU laws and legislations like they do now.

But we would have the ability to completely ignore legislation that we do not want to pass.

No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... bligations

[Harold I]

But we would have the ability to completely ignore legislation that we do not want to pass.

No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... bligations

Thanks for linking that, I trusted CGP Grey too much

[Stormaen]

So what does everyone think of the government spending £9 million on a pro-EU leaflet drop to every UK house? Not even a balanced one, by the way. It will be openly backing the government's "Remain" stance.

Personally, I don't think taxpayers money should go into this; its £9 million on government propaganda and it means that this referendum won't be a fair fight (not that I expected it would be).

"My argument is not going to be in anyway that Britain can't succeed outside the EU. Of course we could. We're a great country."
– David Cameron, 6 January 2016

"[Leaving the EU] would be an act of economic and political self-harm."
– David Cameron, 4 April 2016

The man either knowingly lied when he said the former or is knowingly lying now by saying the latter. Remember that when you're reading your trusty government information leaflet.

You know, if they weren't so pro-EU, the Lib Dems would so have my vote.

[Imperializt Russia]

So what does everyone think of the government spending £9 million on a pro-EU leaflet drop to every UK house? Not even a balanced one, by the way. It will be openly backing the government's "Remain" stance.

That it's fine, because they can, until 28 days before the vote when they no longer can do so.

Personally, I don't think taxpayers money should go into this; its £9 million on government propaganda and it means that this referendum won't be a fair fight (not that I expected it would be).

Either taxpayer money goes on the government stance, or taxpayer money can't go on the leave campaign either. Pick one.

"My argument is not going to be in anyway that Britain can't succeed outside the EU. Of course we could. We're a great country."
– David Cameron, 6 January 2016

"[Leaving the EU] would be an act of economic and political self-harm."
– David Cameron, 4 April 2016

The man either knowingly lied when he said the former or is knowingly lying now by saying the latter. Remember that when you're reading your trusty government information leaflet.

Due to the fact that those two statements are not mutually exclusive, he did not.

[Harold I]

So what does everyone think of the government spending £9 million on a pro-EU leaflet drop to every UK house? Not even a balanced one, by the way. It will be openly backing the government's "Remain" stance.

Personally, I don't think taxpayers money should go into this; its £9 million on government propaganda and it means that this referendum won't be a fair fight (not that I expected it would be).

"My argument is not going to be in anyway that Britain can't succeed outside the EU. Of course we could. We're a great country."
– David Cameron, 6 January 2016

"[Leaving the EU] would be an act of economic and political self-harm not to."
– David Cameron, 4 April 2016

The man either knowingly lied when he said the former or is knowingly lying now by saying the latter. Remember that when you're reading your trusty government information leaflet. *cough*propaganda*cough*

You know, if they weren't so pro-EU, the Lib Dems would so have my vote.

If the government supported leave, I still wouldn't agree with this money being used in this way.

[Kazarogkai]

The nationalist within me that has nothing but hatred for open borders, free trade, and globalization is saying yes to leaving but ultimately it is up to the people of the UK to decide their countries fate and it is no right for me(as I am not from the UK) to tell them what their path for their nation should be. Never the less considering the UK has and remains a strong ally of my nation I will support the UK no matter what they choose. Hopefully the people's come on top in the end and most hopefully this remains a clean fight rather than one filled with demagoguery, fear mongering, and mud throwing on all sides.

[Imperializt Russia]

The nationalist within me that has nothing but hatred for open borders, free trade, and globalization is saying yes to leaving but ultimately it is up to the people of the UK to decide their countries fate and it is no right for me(as I am not from the UK) to tell them what their path for their nation should be. Never the less considering the UK has and remains a strong ally of my nation I will support the UK no matter what they choose. Hopefully the people's come on top in the end and most hopefully this remains a clean fight rather than one filled with demagoguery, fear mongering, and mud throwing on all sides.

Oh that time is long past.

[Harold I]

The nationalist within me that has nothing but hatred for open borders, free trade, and globalization is saying yes to leaving but ultimately it is up to the people of the UK to decide their countries fate and it is no right for me(as I am not from the UK) to tell them what their path for their nation should be. Never the less considering the UK has and remains a strong ally of my nation I will support the UK no matter what they choose. Hopefully the people's come on top in the end and most hopefully this remains a clean fight rather than one filled with demagoguery, fear mongering, and mud throwing on all sides.

May I ask which country you are from?

[Draakonite]

There shouldn't be EU mandated military forces, we should instead keep out national armies and hope for the best.

And would be your best hope be? Italy attacking Austria? Poland attacking Sweden over Lithuania?
Because unless you hope for that, national armies are totally useless.

It would be useful to know which divisions would fight less effectively due to a long standing tradition of incompetence or surrenderism while invading norway for Oil Freedom^TM, when every division had their national uniforms.

[Imperializt Russia]

And would be your best hope be? Italy attacking Austria? Poland attacking Sweden over Lithuania?
Because unless you hope for that, national armies are totally useless.

It would be useful to know which divisions would fight less effectively due to a long standing tradition of incompetence or surrenderism while invading norway for Oil Freedom^TM, when every division had their national uniforms.

Assessing enemy formations and ascertaining the qualities, skill and competence of the commanders of those, is a key priority for military intelligence.