The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Angleter]

Sure, it's not the EU institutions' fault that we're not 'citizens of Europe' (although they are trying, and failing). And I'd love every EU voter (especially in Britain) to know about the EPP/S&D/ALDE/G-EFA and its leaders, and to base their vote on that knowledge (alone). But the fact remains that their democratic mandate is hollow, and unless they're spectacularly out of touch in Brussels/Strasbourg, they know that, but are ploughing ahead nonetheless. Even if you accept that they're just exploiting the inaction (or squeamishness about voting FN/PVV/KKE/whatever, or in some countries, sheer lack of Eurosceptic options) of ordinary voters, and therefore technically acting well within their rights, it's still not a good thing.

What I think is most telling is that if you replace the names of places and political parties with domestic ones you could be talking about the situation here. Let me try it out of curiosity:

Sure, it's not the government's fault that we're not 'citizens of Britain' (although they are trying, and failing). And I'd love every British voter to know about the mainstream parties and their leaders, and to base their vote on that knowledge (alone). But the fact remains that their democratic mandate is hollow, and unless they're spectacularly out of touch in Westminster, they know that, but are ploughing ahead nonetheless. Even if you accept that they're just exploiting the inaction (or squeamishness about voting smaller parties, or in some constituencies, sheer lack of non-establishment options) of ordinary voters, and therefore technically acting well within their rights, it's still not a good thing.

I hate to say it, but it sounds exactly like I am on to something. There is a lowest common denominator to all of this.

If you think that 80% of British voters couldn't name either David Cameron, Ed Miliband, or Nick Clegg in May 2015; and over 88% couldn't name either the Conservative Party, Labour, UKIP, or the Liberal Democrats; and that only about 10% were planning on basing their vote on topics relating to Westminster; then my name's Guy Verhofstadt.

[Old Stephania]

If you think that 80% of British voters couldn't name either David Cameron, Ed Miliband, or Nick Clegg in May 2015; and over 88% couldn't name either the Conservative Party, Labour, UKIP, or the Liberal Democrats; and that only about 10% were planning on basing their vote on topics relating to Westminster; then my name's Guy Verhofstadt.

Of course not, I was just talking about that specific part of your post. Though you would be surprised how many people actually have no idea who their MP is.

[Geilinor]

If you think that 80% of British voters couldn't name either David Cameron, Ed Miliband, or Nick Clegg in May 2015; and over 88% couldn't name either the Conservative Party, Labour, UKIP, or the Liberal Democrats; and that only about 10% were planning on basing their vote on topics relating to Westminster; then my name's Guy Verhofstadt.

Of course not, I was just talking about that specific part of your post. Though you would be surprised how many people actually have no idea who their MP is.

The lesson here is that most people don't have the time or care to pay more than the occasional attention to politics. Sad, but what can you do?

[Old Stephania]

Holy quadruple post Batman.

[Geilinor]

Holy quadruple post Batman.

I'm not sure what happened. A mod might have to fix this if possible.

[Old Stephania]

Holy quadruple post Batman.

I'm not sure what happened. A mod might have to fix this if possible.

There should be X's, or if you edit the posts they should have a delete option.

[Valaran]

I'm not sure what happened. A mod might have to fix this if possible.

There should be X's, or if you edit the posts they should have a delete option.

I think you lose the delete option when someone has posted after you on the thread.

[Geilinor]

I'm not sure what happened. A mod might have to fix this if possible.

There should be X's, or if you edit the posts they should have a delete option.

A post that has been replied to can't be deleted.

[Old Stephania]

There should be X's, or if you edit the posts they should have a delete option.

A post that has been replied to can't be deleted.

There should be X's, or if you edit the posts they should have a delete option.

I think you lose the delete option when someone has posted after you on the thread.

My bad.

[Ysoldia]

If you think that 80% of British voters couldn't name either David Cameron, Ed Miliband, or Nick Clegg in May 2015; and over 88% couldn't name either the Conservative Party, Labour, UKIP, or the Liberal Democrats; and that only about 10% were planning on basing their vote on topics relating to Westminster; then my name's Guy Verhofstadt.

Of course not, I was just talking about that specific part of your post. Though you would be surprised how many people actually have no idea who their MP is.

I know I sure as hell don't or my MEP

[Lemonius]

I'm British, I also like to call myself European because, let's face facts, I am. I want to stay in the EU because bitching about a broken system and fleeing is about as effective as a child screaming "no" and running away from their parents in the supermarket; hey kid, why not argue with your parents instead, use those effective reasoning skills you learned in school - because these aren't ordinary parents, these are parents representing a metaphor for the EU, they won't let you enjoy the food in their shopping basket, and they won't come looking for you round Tesco, you're lost kid, forever. Better make friends with the customer service lady with the creepy smile, because you're on your own now.

But seriously, I'm voting in because... Well... I honestly haven't been effectively persuaded to vote out. I enjoy being European and being an EU citizen. Don't get me wrong, the EU isn't perfect by a BIG margin, but it's better than the customer services lady being my only friend.

[Alvecia]

Something my boss brought up that I thought was an interesting point.
If we leave the European Union, will our sport and athletics team still play in European leagues?
Will England still compete in the UEFA Euro Cup? British teams in the European Championship?
Will our athletes still be able to compete in European Athletics Competitions.

There's a not insignificant amount of money there as well.

Not likely to break any backs, camel or otherwise, but it's interesting to consider.

[The Blaatschapen]

Something my boss brought up that I thought was an interesting point.
If we leave the European Union, will our sport and athletics team still play in European leagues?
Will England still compete in the UEFA Euro Cup? British teams in the European Championship?
Will our athletes still be able to compete in European Athletics Competitions.

There's a not insignificant amount of money there as well.

Not likely to break any backs, camel or otherwise, but it's interesting to consider.

UEFA is not EU related, so yes.

Generally these sport organisations are not a part of the EU, so you can still play.

[Alvecia]

Something my boss brought up that I thought was an interesting point.
If we leave the European Union, will our sport and athletics team still play in European leagues?
Will England still compete in the UEFA Euro Cup? British teams in the European Championship?
Will our athletes still be able to compete in European Athletics Competitions.

There's a not insignificant amount of money there as well.

Not likely to break any backs, camel or otherwise, but it's interesting to consider.

UEFA is not EU related, so yes.

Generally these sport organisations are not a part of the EU, so you can still play.

I did think they were more of a geographical thing, but I don't sports much

[Skeckoa]

UEFA is not EU related, so yes.

Generally these sport organisations are not a part of the EU, so you can still play.

I did think they were more of a geographical thing, but I don't sports much

Fun fact: Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Russia all are part of UEFA

[Alvecia]

I did think they were more of a geographical thing, but I don't sports much

Fun fact: Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Russia all are part of UEFA

Something new every day.

[The Islands of Versilia]

I'm torn to be fair. There are goods things that come with being in the EU (Like people actually having jobs), and bad things (Like how it's handled).

[Izzyshipper]

I'm somewhat undecided. I'm somewhat tempted to vote to leave because as far as I can find out the EU has the legislative control of areas I wish to see changed, mainly the UK's lack of restrictions for the transport of money from the country and some form of protectionism. The EU is, at it's core, a free trade agreement and concerned more with Europe as a whole. However, looking at Norway and Iceland it seems that compliance with EU economic policy is somewhat necessary regardless of membership.

However I haven't looked into properly yet and find it difficult to get specific details about this without wading through pages of documents, if anyone knows better than me feel free to let me know!

[Alimprad]

I think we are the only two British Eurofederalists

I think that xenophobic and foolish pride has led to stuff like this. Did you know 60% of people in the Isles (excluding ROI obviously) are Monarchists? Far fewer than that openly admit it, but that's the estimate. I myself am pro United Republic and pro Democracy.

For people yabbering on about democracy, a referendum is undemocratic. She may not have gotten many things right, but Thatcher hit the nail on the head:

"Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."
-Margaret Thatcher

all monarchists are racists?
xenophobia and monarchy have anything to do with the referendum?
having a referendum makes you Hitler?
did you post in the wrong thread or something?

[The Islands of Versilia]

I think that xenophobic and foolish pride has led to stuff like this. Did you know 60% of people in the Isles (excluding ROI obviously) are Monarchists? Far fewer than that openly admit it, but that's the estimate. I myself am pro United Republic and pro Democracy.

For people yabbering on about democracy, a referendum is undemocratic. She may not have gotten many things right, but Thatcher hit the nail on the head:

"Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."
-Margaret Thatcher

all monarchists are racists?
xenophobia and monarchy have anything to do with the referendum?
having a referendum makes you Hitler?
did you post in the wrong thread or something?

Are they serious?

[Martean]

Spanish citizen here. I would rather have the UK out of the EU, than dismantling Schengen (arguably, the only good thing the EU has done) just for them to stay.

[Lemonius]

Spanish citizen here. I would rather have the UK out of the EU, than dismantling Schengen (arguably, the only good thing the EU has done) just for them to stay.

Does Britain want Schengen gone in it's entirety? I was always under the assumption Britain just really didn't want to be in Schengen, which is fine, but Schengen in itself is not a bad idea, and I've never quite understood why (*British) Eurosceptics want Schengen gone so badly, if they feel they aren't even European anyway. Seems illogical to want a part of a deal, that doesn't include you, gone when you don't really want to be considered part of the wider club anyway.

[Valaran]

Spanish citizen here. I would rather have the UK out of the EU, than dismantling Schengen (arguably, the only good thing the EU has done) just for them to stay.

Schengen won't be dismantled because of us. We were never part of it anyway, and if anything will destroy it, it will be the Migrant Crisis, which is almost entirely unrelated to the UK.

[Imperializt Russia]

Spanish citizen here. I would rather have the UK out of the EU, than dismantling Schengen (arguably, the only good thing the EU has done) just for them to stay.

Does Britain want Schengen gone in it's entirety? I was always under the assumption Britain just really didn't want to be in Schengen, which is fine, but Schengen in itself is not a bad idea, and I've never quite understood why (*British) Eurosceptics want Schengen gone so badly, if they feel they aren't even European anyway. Seems illogical to want a part of a deal, that doesn't include you, gone when you don't really want to be considered part of the wider club anyway.

Because rargh, immigration.

Or something.

[Socialist Czechia]

Well, why not. For pitiful remnant of once powerful British Empire, Commonwealth ties are much crucial to it's prosperity and foreign policy than continental, franco-german EU...which is on the brink of collapse, whether or not they want to admit it.