The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Souseiseki]

Neither London nor Singapore are tax havens. Singapore can at a stretch be called an offshore financial centre, but it's nothing like real tax havens (you know, the Guernseys and Panamas of this world). The question is why financial institutions choose to set up in a particular location, and how different cities compete to be the most popular destination. Singapore has a developed legal system and historical trade links, a multi-lingual and well-educated population and the technological infrastructure. So, together with HK which benefits primarily from its easy access into China, it is a go-to place for fixed income and FX in the Asian time zones.

London also has those benefits (not tax though, in particular) and obviously a huge amount of history and inertia. But what do people actually do? Mostly they take money from, and serve the needs of, mainland European clients. There are plenty of hedge funds and investment firms based in London, but not only do those raise a lot of cash on the mainland, but you can't really run a market without big real money and corporate investors. The reason you can serve these clients from London is because in the EU regulations can't discriminate between countries and so there is no reason not to be based in London. But with Britain leaving, there will now be complex negotiations about which rules the UK regulators have to put in place to satisfy the EU regulators that regulation is no less stringent in London than it would be in Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt. If those fail, a lot of business will necessarily have to migrate from London to an EU alternative. London won't be finished as a financial centre, but it will lose ground relative to its competitors. Jamie Dimon said Brexit could mean a reduction in JP Morgan's UK workforce by a quarter.


The point is what the investment is for. The reasons to invest in Singapore are not really applicable to the UK. And the reasons to invest in a UK in the single market are nowhere near as compelling for a UK out of the single market. So the question is what the UK has to offer. Singapore holds no lessons in that regard.

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

the UK already was the stupid tax haven of and foot into the door of the EU

we don't have that anymore

now that we don't, what is our plan? try to become even more of a corrupt tax haven than we were before? race to the bottom with singapore and hong kong and pretend we're totes a city state?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

Wowee

Bye Texas!

Fuck. No. I don't want to be part of Mexico.

[Novus America]

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

Pretty sure Singapore is waaaay ahead of us in the education tables. Speaking English doesn't matter. Any big financial centre speaks English.

Again not really the point. Singapore is not the only wealthy country. And English as a second language cannot match it as a first language.

Point is Britain has good thing going for it. And bad things. This could go well or badly for the UK. It all depends on how it adapts to it.

[Astaliah]

I'm glad to see that everyone above has made logical arguments in favour of re-uniting Ireland which has been an issue since the partition of our nation. Even though it was divided, it lived on as ONE nation, it lives on as one nation, and it WILL live on as one nation! It has lived as two states = war, corruption, murder, death. It lives as two states = racism, fear, sectarianism.

If only the people who voted against unity could make some logical points in the thread, please.

[Kelinfort]

No.

Yes. NAFTA is shit.

Free trade is evil, obvs.

I say we close all borders and keep everything here.

[Arkinesia]

No.

Yes. NAFTA is shit.

In what way?

Here in South Carolina it's led to thousands of new jobs that never would have existed previously and we're adding more as a result of NAFTA every year. Just because your state sucks at life isn't an excuse to hate on NAFTA. Git gud.

[Neu Leonstein]

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

Sure the UK has lots of things to offer. I'm not disputing that. But the problem is that there is nothing the UK has to offer outside of the EU that it didn't already have inside. This wasn't a trade-off of one thing against another. The only thing the UK gained as a result of this outcome is that it made a bunch of old people with a dislike for seeing foreigners happy.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wowee

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

It's not even related to Brexit either.

NAFTA is a free commerce agreement, it's not anywhere near the scope of the EU.

[Maurepas]

Wowee

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

I guess if we too want to commit economic suicide. I mean, if anything, the UK will be desperately negotiating for a NAFTA-style relationship with the EU, why would we deliberately screw ourselves based on it, when that isn't even the example they're setting?

[Novus America]

No.

Yes. NAFTA is shit.

NAFTA is not a problem for the US, it actually reduced our trade deficit with Mexico. But that is off topic.

[Immoren]

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

the UK already was the stupid tax haven of and foot into the door of the EU

we don't have that anymore

now that we don't, what is our plan? try to become even more of a corrupt tax haven than we were before? race to the bottom with singapore and hong kong and pretend we're totes a city state?

Mega City London

[Southerly Gentleman]

Wowee

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

You might as well just dissolve NAFTA if the U.S. withdraws.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes. NAFTA is shit.

In what way?

Here in South Carolina it's led to thousands of new jobs that never would have existed previously and we're adding more as a result of NAFTA every year. Just because your state sucks at life isn't an excuse to hate on NAFTA. Git gud.

To be fair, Texas has also benefitted from NAFTA. Right across the border for instance.

[Astaliah]

I support Irish unification. NI has no place in the United Kingdom, it's Irish land and Britain should stay out of it. So this is a win win for me.

Well no, that's simply not true at all. It's NOT Irish land because it is part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is the one that should stay out of it until a majority of Northern Ireland want reunification, which I don't think they do despite what Sinn Fein says.

the Peace Process clearly says that if republicans want they can show data, arguments and facts to Villiers and she has to, if she believes there's a reasonable chance, have it. If she keeps deferring it she's un-democratic.

[Hurdegaryp]

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

You might as well just dissolve NAFTA if the U.S. withdraws.

That would severely displease our corporate overlords.

[Neu Leonstein]

now that we don't, what is our plan? try to become even more of a corrupt tax haven than we were before? race to the bottom with singapore and hong kong and pretend we're totes a city state?

To be fair, in some ways, the UK is kinda like a fairly successful city state. It's just that London also has to feed a sprawling, unproductive and rather unpleasant suburbia stretching across the island it happens to be located on.

[Novus America]

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

Sure the UK has lots of things to offer. I'm not disputing that. But the problem is that there is nothing the UK has to offer outside of the EU that it didn't already have inside. This wasn't a trade-off of one thing against another. The only thing the UK gained as a result of this outcome is that it made a bunch of old people with a dislike for seeing foreigners happy.

Well depending on the trade agreements it might have a better regulatory structure. Investors are not big on the EU's red tape. The EU puts out a lot of shit regulations.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

You might as well just dissolve NAFTA if the U.S. withdraws.

Not to mention Mexico has even more of a reason to have NAFTA dissolved than the U.S. does.

[Souseiseki]

Sure the UK has lots of things to offer. I'm not disputing that. But the problem is that there is nothing the UK has to offer outside of the EU that it didn't already have inside. This wasn't a trade-off of one thing against another. The only thing the UK gained as a result of this outcome is that it made a bunch of old people with a dislike for seeing foreigners happy.

Well depending on the trade agreements it might have a better regulatory structure. Investors are not big on the EU's red tape. The EU puts out a lot of shit regulations.

who the fuck are they going to trade with from the UK?

[Arkinesia]

In what way?

Here in South Carolina it's led to thousands of new jobs that never would have existed previously and we're adding more as a result of NAFTA every year. Just because your state sucks at life isn't an excuse to hate on NAFTA. Git gud.

To be fair, Texas has also benefitted from NAFTA. Right across the border for instance.

NAFTA's how we got Michelin, BMW, and Volvo. Not to mention the first two were an impetus for building our Inland Port Facility which has led to more jobs. Then part fabricators for BMW moved here which meant more jobs. Now Volvo part fabricators are looking to move to South Carolina meaning even more jobs.

ReadySC + NAFTA was a boon for this state's economy.

[The East Marches]

This is a repost from another thread:

I read that the cost of Norn Iron to the UK government was something like 20 billion pounds, their contribution was only 9 billion pounds. That means they are 11 billion pounds in the red. Their overall GDP is only 40 billion pounds. Thats roughly 1/4 of their total economy coming from Westminster (Telegraph and BBC numbers) . I just fact checked myself on Wikipedia too, that puts it at 1/5 of their total economy coming from subsidies. I don't think Norn Iron will be leaving with that much delicious bait on the hook.

In addition, most of the so called "nationalists" now hold juicy government positions or something other top job. Good luck getting Dublin to pay up for that.

[Oneracon]

Just posting this here and leaving again.

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Like I said, my sides will be in orbit if that ends up coming to pass.

UK leaves the EU because of unelected Eurocrats and controlling immigration... then joins EFTA (or forms other relationship with the EEA) where they're required to follow a large body of EU laws/regulations and still required to have free movement with other European states.

[Neu Leonstein]

A few pieces in reaction on Der Spiegel's international website:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 99726.html - The people of the UK have voted in favor of Brexit. Both Britain and the rest of Europe now face years of uncertainty. The EU has tough negotiations ahead and serious questions about its future.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 99608.html - Brexit is a catastrophe, but it is not the end of the European Union. The EU must now take advantage of the opportunity it has been presented with. Here's how.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 99533.html - Britain's vote to leave the EU was a gut decision, an emblem of a country in retreat. The island nation is getting smaller and smaller.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 98633.html - London is the world's leading financial capital, ahead of New York, Hong Kong and Singapore. The city placed its bets on globalization and won, attracting both legitimate and shady business with its lax rules. A vote in favor of Brexit could jeopardize its position.

[Great Nepal]

Just posting this here and leaving again.

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Plus the budget contributions naturally. However one can hope a pragmatist conservative will get into power, and after wrangling for few years present this as deal of a century. Which it probably will be - I mean not as good as one we opted out of but oh well.

[Imperializt Russia]

Pretty sure Singapore is waaaay ahead of us in the education tables. Speaking English doesn't matter. Any big financial centre speaks English.

Again not really the point. Singapore is not the only wealthy country. And English as a second language cannot match it as a first language.

Point is Britain has good thing going for it. And bad things. This could go well or badly for the UK. It all depends on how it adapts to it.

Britain did have a good thing going for it. It was seen as the gateway to the EU by many, notably America.
Now they can just go to Europe instead and not bother since we don't offer access to anything anymore.