The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Neolvex]

I support Irish unification. NI has no place in the United Kingdom, it's Irish land and Britain should stay out of it. So this is a win win for me.

I agree. Ireland and N. Ireland should reunite. They voted to stay but Wales and England dragged them and Scotland with it

[Novus America]

Well it is still a popular tax haven. I am sure London will still be a popular tax haven.

Neither London nor Singapore are tax havens. Singapore can at a stretch be called an offshore financial centre, but it's nothing like real tax havens (you know, the Guernseys and Panamas of this world). The question is why financial institutions choose to set up in a particular location, and how different cities compete to be the most popular destination. Singapore has a developed legal system and historical trade links, a multi-lingual and well-educated population and the technological infrastructure. So, together with HK which benefits primarily from its easy access into China, it is a go-to place for fixed income and FX in the Asian time zones.

London also has those benefits (not tax though, in particular) and obviously a huge amount of history and inertia. But what do people actually do? Mostly they take money from, and serve the needs of, mainland European clients. There are plenty of hedge funds and investment firms based in London, but not only do those raise a lot of cash on the mainland, but you can't really run a market without big real money and corporate investors. The reason you can serve these clients from London is because in the EU regulations can't discriminate between countries and so there is no reason not to be based in London. But with Britain leaving, there will now be complex negotiations about which rules the UK regulators have to put in place to satisfy the EU regulators that regulation is no less stringent in London than it would be in Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt. If those fail, a lot of business will necessarily have to migrate from London to an EU alternative. London won't be finished as a financial centre, but it will lose ground relative to its competitors. Jamie Dimon said Brexit could mean a reduction in JP Morgan's UK workforce by a quarter.

It is not the same, but being small does not mean a lack of investment. Not that the UK will be small.

The point is what the investment is for. The reasons to invest in Singapore are not really applicable to the UK. And the reasons to invest in a UK in the single market are nowhere near as compelling for a UK out of the single market. So the question is what the UK has to offer. Singapore holds no lessons in that regard.

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

[Teemant]

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Bargaining power is on the UK, though. As a sovereign entity, the UK can pick and choose what deals it wants to make instead of being forced to abide to the EU's deals.

I doubt European Union will accept everything that United Kingdom wants. If European Union is fighting against something it is the pick and choose approach.

[Calafai]

Yeah. Wales, to be honest won't survive in the modern world without england.

But anything can happen. Nothern Ireland and Scotland both have shown they wanted to stay in the European Union by the dozens and with the United Kingdom just not listening to them anything could happen.

[Yorkers]

Trump just said he'd reaffirm our close relations with the UK and said he'd hold them as equal partner in the Anglo-American special relationship, and came out against the EU.


Oh boy if the Donald wins in November, there's no going back!

[Rutthenia]

Do you guys realise that the North and South will still have open borders due to the Common Travel Area, right?

[Kelinfort]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

[Yorkers]

Westminister currently sends up a ton of subsidies and social welfare to Northern Ireland. Do you really think Dublin will want to foot that bill?

[Novus America]

The investment might be. Singapore does just fine. If investors think they can make money off the UK they will invest. In fact now is the time to buy pounds.

Fun fact - the UK is not Singapore.

My message, and I presume that of most Irish people is the following.

You are idiots, you will regret it. Typical English.

Oi. Waz.

Some of us voted to stay.

Sure the UK is not Singapore. Singapore is not the only wealthy non EU country either. The point is that some countries like Singapore adapt well to becoming separated. Others like the Phillipines did not.

We do not know yet how the UK will adapt.

[Paredonia]

I support Irish unification. NI has no place in the United Kingdom, it's Irish land and Britain should stay out of it. So this is a win win for me.

Well no, that's simply not true at all. It's NOT Irish land because it is part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is the one that should stay out of it until a majority of Northern Ireland want reunification, which I don't think they do despite what Sinn Fein says.

[Greater Mackonia]

Oh, I misunderstood your accusation, my apologies.

How flowery with language you are.

Without a strong economy, there will not be a strong state for you to push your ideological agenda.

That was an entirely standard sentence of common English. If you thought that was flowery Top Gear must be your Proust.

What if I want to abolish the state?

Can't explain that.

[The East Marches]

I've spent a bit of time there. Another poster could explain the system in more depth but they took great strides towards ending factionalism etc. They are attached to the tit of the UK. "Give us money or we'll bomb you" is the way a PSNI officer once explained NI reason for staying in the UK. If they end the money flow, then expect problems. I don't believe Westminster would be dumb enough to do that though.

That's the thing, I'm just basing this on the news articles I've read, but part of the reason for wanting to remain is there was significant money flow from the EU that will now dry up.

I read that the cost of Norn Iron to the UK government was something like 20 billion pounds, their contribution was only 9 billion pounds. That means they are 11 billion pounds in the red. Their overall GDP is only 40 billion pounds. Thats roughly 1/4 of their total economy coming from Westminster (Telegraph and BBC numbers) . I just fact checked myself on Wikipedia too, that puts it at 1/5 of their total economy coming from subsidies. I don't think Norn Iron will be leaving with that much delicious bait on the hook.

[Imperializt Russia]

Neither London nor Singapore are tax havens. Singapore can at a stretch be called an offshore financial centre, but it's nothing like real tax havens (you know, the Guernseys and Panamas of this world). The question is why financial institutions choose to set up in a particular location, and how different cities compete to be the most popular destination. Singapore has a developed legal system and historical trade links, a multi-lingual and well-educated population and the technological infrastructure. So, together with HK which benefits primarily from its easy access into China, it is a go-to place for fixed income and FX in the Asian time zones.

London also has those benefits (not tax though, in particular) and obviously a huge amount of history and inertia. But what do people actually do? Mostly they take money from, and serve the needs of, mainland European clients. There are plenty of hedge funds and investment firms based in London, but not only do those raise a lot of cash on the mainland, but you can't really run a market without big real money and corporate investors. The reason you can serve these clients from London is because in the EU regulations can't discriminate between countries and so there is no reason not to be based in London. But with Britain leaving, there will now be complex negotiations about which rules the UK regulators have to put in place to satisfy the EU regulators that regulation is no less stringent in London than it would be in Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt. If those fail, a lot of business will necessarily have to migrate from London to an EU alternative. London won't be finished as a financial centre, but it will lose ground relative to its competitors. Jamie Dimon said Brexit could mean a reduction in JP Morgan's UK workforce by a quarter.


The point is what the investment is for. The reasons to invest in Singapore are not really applicable to the UK. And the reasons to invest in a UK in the single market are nowhere near as compelling for a UK out of the single market. So the question is what the UK has to offer. Singapore holds no lessons in that regard.

The U.K. has a favorable tax and regulatory struture and a well educated English speaking population. It has a lot to offer. Will the UK be able to leverage those he fits outside the EU? Maybe. Maybe not. We shall see.

Pretty sure Singapore is waaaay ahead of us in the education tables. Speaking English doesn't matter. Any big financial centre speaks English.

[Arkinesia]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

Only Texas could look at a currency losing 8% of its value in a few hours and say “I'll have what they're having.”

[Dejanic]

I support Irish unification. NI has no place in the United Kingdom, it's Irish land and Britain should stay out of it. So this is a win win for me.

Well no, that's simply not true at all. It's NOT Irish land because it is part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is the one that should stay out of it until a majority of Northern Ireland want reunification, which I don't think they do despite what Sinn Fein says.

Well I disagree with it being part of the UK, that's my point. I'd be happy if we kicked them out and gave them back to Ireland.

[Neu Leonstein]

That's the thing, I'm just basing this on the news articles I've read, but part of the reason for wanting to remain is there was significant money flow from the EU that will now dry up.

Yeah, but even when EU money is involved, the debate doesn't suddenly turn rational: http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 97012.html

[Souseiseki]

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Bargaining power is on the UK, though. As a sovereign entity, the UK can pick and choose what deals it wants to make instead of being forced to abide to the EU's deals.

the bargaining power is with the EU because literally the entire point of an organization like the EU is to give them massive bargaining power over single states like the UK which is why we were in it

we can play their game or fuck off and due to geographical and political realities we are very much inclined towards the "play their game option". china and the US have already stated they won't be falling heads over heels to make trade deals with us because... why would they? their political capital is best spent elsewhere. like, say, negotiating a deal with the world's largest trading bloc.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's the thing, I'm just basing this on the news articles I've read, but part of the reason for wanting to remain is there was significant money flow from the EU that will now dry up.

I read that the cost of Norn Iron to the UK government was something like 20 billion pounds, their contribution was only 9 billion pounds. That means they are 11 billion pounds in the red. Their overall GDP is only 40 billion pounds. Thats roughly 1/4 of their total economy coming from Westminster (Telegraph and BBC numbers) . I just fact checked myself on Wikipedia too, that puts it at 1/5 of their total economy coming from subsidies. I don't think Norn Iron will be leaving with that much delicious bait on the hook.

They're not talking about going it alone as Independent Norn Iron, the topic on the table is reunification with the Republic of Ireland.

[Yorkers]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

[Kelinfort]

Wowee

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

No.

[The East Marches]

I read that the cost of Norn Iron to the UK government was something like 20 billion pounds, their contribution was only 9 billion pounds. That means they are 11 billion pounds in the red. Their overall GDP is only 40 billion pounds. Thats roughly 1/4 of their total economy coming from Westminster (Telegraph and BBC numbers) . I just fact checked myself on Wikipedia too, that puts it at 1/5 of their total economy coming from subsidies. I don't think Norn Iron will be leaving with that much delicious bait on the hook.

They're not talking about going it alone as Independent Norn Iron, the topic on the table is reunification with the Republic of Ireland.

Would reunification be able to give them the same money? I doubt it. They will stay with whoever fattens their wallets the most the greedy bastards.

[Yorkers]

Bargaining power is on the UK, though. As a sovereign entity, the UK can pick and choose what deals it wants to make instead of being forced to abide to the EU's deals.

the bargaining power is with the EU because literally the entire point of an organization like the EU is to give them massive bargaining power over single states like the UK which is why we were in it

we can play their game or fuck off and due to geographical and political realities we are very much inclined towards the "play their game option". china and the US have already stated they won't be falling heads over heels to make trade deals with us because... why would they? their political capital is best spent elsewhere. like, say, negotiating a deal with the world's largest trading bloc.

Trump said he would, and he'll be grooving his way into the Oval Office pretty soon.

[Corrian]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

Bye Texas!

[Genivaria]

"It is now important for Texas to look to #Brexit as an inspiration and an example that Texans can also take control of our destiny," group president Daniel Miller said in a statement Thursday.

Wowee

As a Texan Miller should go fuck himself.

[Yorkers]

Okay Texan secession from the United States is not related to Brexit.

What this should inspire is an American withdrawal from NAFTA.

No.

Yes. NAFTA is shit.