The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[The Joseon Dynasty]

My message, and I presume that of most Irish people is the following.

You are idiots, you will regret it. Typical English.

Why don't the Welsh get their fair share of the blame? I'm feeling oppressed.

[Kriga]

New York City is a city within the US that has made its money on business and economic prosperity. Their development has been propelled by a combination of the State and individuals themselves. NYC has nothing to do with Brexit, nor is it remotely like Brexit's situation.

And if you think for a second that Hong Kong is entirely independent from Chinese influence, you are quite far-fetched in your facts. Hong Kong is under Chinese control and influence. And while it is more Liberal than the People's Republic, it is far from independent. You are changing the subject and drawing far-flung analogies to Brexit. Britain is not like that.

Britain no longer has an Empire. Its possessions in India, Africa, the Americas. Lands that once provided them with bountiful natural resources, are lost. They are simply reduced to an isle. Now, besides generic crops, steel and shipping, and some oil in Scotland, what does the UK have to offer?

Still think we should screw economic problems? Well, its going to be haunting the Leavers soon enough, as well as the entire Isles itself, unless Scotland and Northern Ireland get the hell out of the union (which the former will definitely do).

Britain was stronger in Europe as its trade agreements provided it with a strong economic base. Now, they are no longer fifth in the economic standing, and the union itself is threatening to disintegrate.

Plenty of countries are prosperous without having a Empire or being part of some Union. Leaving will have benefits and negatives. The question is how well will the UK adapt to being outside.

Will it become like Singapore? Or like the Phillipines? Only time will tell.

Depends on what you mean by 'plenty of countries.' Aye, i can agree with you on certain nations, but the UK is a more complicated case. For a long time, the UK has undoubtedly enjoyed economic benefits under the EEC and then the EU. Of that, there is little room for debate on that. And, with their Imperial possessions no longer under their rule, Britain has naught but oil in the North Sea, crops, shipping and coal (which they no longer mine). Their best bet is trade, and the EU offered them economic prosperity by allowing them to trade freely and easily with member states of the Union.

And now that we have left...we have suddenly lost all that. The pound has fallen, and investors are selling. Being in the EU was what made Britain a lucrative centre for investment. With Britain gone and on the almost about to disintegrat, is it really feasible to think that they will become as prosperous as Singapore? That is a very optimistic statement to make.

Britain is going to slump...hard. Perhaps we will recover, but we will never reach the height of economic prosperity as we did under the EU. Of that, i am sure.

We will reap what we have sowed.

[Souseiseki]

Just posting this here and leaving again.

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

[Greater Mackonia]

I have deemed this a satisfactory result. Any economic problems are utterly secondary to dismantling Social Humanism.

Who's the radical again?

What a weak and empty attempt at sarcasm. I don't hold any views for the sake of being "radical", I just point out to those who describe themselves as such that they happen to usually be far from such a description. I'm simply saying this is a satisfactory result, the idiocy of the masses happened to be driven in my favour, their reasons for driving so are probably very different from mine for approving of the outcome, I can see how from most perspectives it is probably safer to vote Remain. Sure, if you can show me vast numbers of people embracing Anarcho-Meritocracy I'll merrily leap into the consensus - I unconvincingly maintain I don't hold any opinions purely for the sake of being a controversialist, but I don't quite think those are the motives of most Leave voters.

[Faustin Land]

My message, and I presume that of most Irish people is the following.

You are idiots, you will regret it. Typical English.

10/10

[Neu Leonstein]

Well it is still a popular tax haven. I am sure London will still be a popular tax haven.

Neither London nor Singapore are tax havens. Singapore can at a stretch be called an offshore financial centre, but it's nothing like real tax havens (you know, the Guernseys and Panamas of this world). The question is why financial institutions choose to set up in a particular location, and how different cities compete to be the most popular destination. Singapore has a developed legal system and historical trade links, a multi-lingual and well-educated population and the technological infrastructure. So, together with HK which benefits primarily from its easy access into China, it is a go-to place for fixed income and FX in the Asian time zones.

London also has those benefits (not tax though, in particular) and obviously a huge amount of history and inertia. But what do people actually do? Mostly they take money from, and serve the needs of, mainland European clients. There are plenty of hedge funds and investment firms based in London, but not only do those raise a lot of cash on the mainland, but you can't really run a market without big real money and corporate investors. The reason you can serve these clients from London is because in the EU regulations can't discriminate between countries and so there is no reason not to be based in London. But with Britain leaving, there will now be complex negotiations about which rules the UK regulators have to put in place to satisfy the EU regulators that regulation is no less stringent in London than it would be in Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt. If those fail, a lot of business will necessarily have to migrate from London to an EU alternative. London won't be finished as a financial centre, but it will lose ground relative to its competitors. Jamie Dimon said Brexit could mean a reduction in JP Morgan's UK workforce by a quarter.

It is not the same, but being small does not mean a lack of investment. Not that the UK will be small.

The point is what the investment is for. The reasons to invest in Singapore are not really applicable to the UK. And the reasons to invest in a UK in the single market are nowhere near as compelling for a UK out of the single market. So the question is what the UK has to offer. Singapore holds no lessons in that regard.

[Maurepas]

The Gaelic Republic? lol

My mistake on Wales, but I know both Northern Ireland and Scotland are talking referendums again.

Norn Iron won't happen but Scotland is a very real possibility.

I obviously don't consider myself having any expertise on the subject, as several have pointed out, lol, but I am kind of curious about how sure that is. The conventional wisdom of course is that Protestants will never vote in favor of Union, but with religious apathy as high as it is, I'm wondering if perhaps the desire to find a way to stay in the EU will outweigh traditional religious rivalry.

[Geilinor]

Just posting this here and leaving again.

Of course the EU will trade, but the terms will have to be negotiated.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Norn Iron won't happen but Scotland is a very real possibility.

I obviously don't consider myself having any expertise on the subject, as several have pointed out, lol, but I am kind of curious about how sure that is. The conventional wisdom of course is that Protestants will never vote in favor of Union, but with religious apathy as high as it is, I'm wondering if perhaps the desire to find a way to stay in the EU will outweigh traditional religious rivalry.

It's Catholics that traditionally oppose the Union. Protestants used to throw pictures of the Queen into Catholics' back gardens.

[Kelinfort]

Who's the radical again?

What a weak and empty attempt at sarcasm. I don't hold any views for the sake of being "radical", I just point out to those who describe themselves as such that they happen to usually be far from such a description. I'm simply saying this is a satisfactory result, the idiocy of the masses happened to be driven in my favour, their reasons for driving so are probably very different from mine for approving of the outcome, I can see how from most perspectives it is probably safer to vote Remain. Sure, if you can show me vast numbers of people embracing Anarcho-Meritocracy I'll merrily leap into the consensus - I unconvincingly maintain I don't hold any opinions purely for the sake of being a controversialist, but I don't quite think those are the motives of most Leave voters.

You may not hold views for the sake of being radical, but discounting economic success for the destruction of an ideological opponent is quite radical.

[Greater Mackonia]

What a weak and empty attempt at sarcasm. I don't hold any views for the sake of being "radical", I just point out to those who describe themselves as such that they happen to usually be far from such a description. I'm simply saying this is a satisfactory result, the idiocy of the masses happened to be driven in my favour, their reasons for driving so are probably very different from mine for approving of the outcome, I can see how from most perspectives it is probably safer to vote Remain. Sure, if you can show me vast numbers of people embracing Anarcho-Meritocracy I'll merrily leap into the consensus - I unconvincingly maintain I don't hold any opinions purely for the sake of being a controversialist, but I don't quite think those are the motives of most Leave voters.

You may not hold views for the sake of being radical, but discounting economic success for the destruction of an ideological opponent is quite radical.

Oh, I misunderstood your accusation, my apologies.

[Neu Leonstein]

Of course the EU will trade, but the terms will have to be negotiated.

If details like that were actually of interest to the people who read articles like this, the vote wouldn't have gone the way it has. So I wouldn't waste the energy at this stage...

[Kriga]

You may not hold views for the sake of being radical, but discounting economic success for the destruction of an ideological opponent is quite radical.

Oh, I misunderstood your accusation, my apologies.

How flowery with language you are.

Without a strong economy, there will not be a strong state for you to push your ideological agenda.

[Astaliah]

As the "United" Kingdom has voted to leave, but Northern Ireland has voted to stay, by 10%, it is un-democratic for London to drag Northern Ireland out with them, in my opinion. That is up for discussion in this thread.

Another aspect of this thread is a unification referendum, which Sinn Féin is calling for. This will re-unite Ireland as one state.

And finally, the economy of NI, in my opinion, especially around Border areas will decrease drastically. This is also up for discussion.

[Maurepas]

I obviously don't consider myself having any expertise on the subject, as several have pointed out, lol, but I am kind of curious about how sure that is. The conventional wisdom of course is that Protestants will never vote in favor of Union, but with religious apathy as high as it is, I'm wondering if perhaps the desire to find a way to stay in the EU will outweigh traditional religious rivalry.

It's Catholics that traditionally oppose the Union. Protestants used to throw pictures of the Queen into Catholics' back gardens.

haha, but my point being I'm curious as to what's more important, economics or religion?

[The East Marches]

Norn Iron won't happen but Scotland is a very real possibility.

I obviously don't consider myself having any expertise on the subject, as several have pointed out, lol, but I am kind of curious about how sure that is. The conventional wisdom of course is that Protestants will never vote in favor of Union, but with religious apathy as high as it is, I'm wondering if perhaps the desire to find a way to stay in the EU will outweigh traditional religious rivalry.

I've spent a bit of time there. Another poster could explain the system in more depth but they took great strides towards ending factionalism etc. They are attached to the tit of the UK. "Give us money or we'll bomb you" is the way a PSNI officer once explained NI reason for staying in the UK. If they end the money flow, then expect problems. I don't believe Westminster would be dumb enough to do that though.

[Arachaea]

I have family who live in the North and work in the Republic, and their life will be hard if they keep having to cross between the North and the Republic, so in reality Ireland has to be one state.

Also, if Ireland is reunified, it means the North will finally have same-sex marriage.

[Maurepas]

I obviously don't consider myself having any expertise on the subject, as several have pointed out, lol, but I am kind of curious about how sure that is. The conventional wisdom of course is that Protestants will never vote in favor of Union, but with religious apathy as high as it is, I'm wondering if perhaps the desire to find a way to stay in the EU will outweigh traditional religious rivalry.

I've spent a bit of time there. Another poster could explain the system in more depth but they took great strides towards ending factionalism etc. They are attached to the tit of the UK. "Give us money or we'll bomb you" is the way a PSNI officer once explained NI reason for staying in the UK. If they end the money flow, then expect problems. I don't believe Westminster would be dumb enough to do that though.

That's the thing, I'm just basing this on the news articles I've read, but part of the reason for wanting to remain is there was significant money flow from the EU that will now dry up.

[Dejanic]

I support Irish unification. NI has no place in the United Kingdom, it's Irish land and Britain should stay out of it. So this is a win win for me.

[Imperializt Russia]

The relationships might be there, but the private investment will not.

The investment might be. Singapore does just fine. If investors think they can make money off the UK they will invest. In fact now is the time to buy pounds.

Fun fact - the UK is not Singapore.

My message, and I presume that of most Irish people is the following.

You are idiots, you will regret it. Typical English.

Oi. Waz.

Some of us voted to stay.

[Yorkers]

One of my friends in college is quite far-right, but since he is of vague Irish ancestry, all over Facebook he's just going nuts about "THE SIX COUNTIES REUNIFY THEM!!!"

It's quite amusing.

[The Liberated Territories]

Just posting this here and leaving again.

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Bargaining power is on the UK, though. As a sovereign entity, the UK can pick and choose what deals it wants to make instead of being forced to abide to the EU's deals.

[Imperializt Russia]

psst: "negotiate a trade deal" means "the UK will continue to follow EU regulations and have freedom of movement in exchange for access to the common market"

Bargaining power is on the UK, though. As a sovereign entity, the UK can pick and choose what deals it wants to make instead of being forced to abide to the EU's deals.

Bargaining power really isn't on ours.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

It's Catholics that traditionally oppose the Union. Protestants used to throw pictures of the Queen into Catholics' back gardens.

haha, but my point being I'm curious as to what's more important, economics or religion?

Speaking from first-hand experience with my own grandparents, Catholic-Protestant divides are still really pronounced among older people in Scotland, especially in traditional hotbeds like Glasgow (my Protestant Scottish grandparents nearly had a heart attack when my mum decided to marry my Catholic English dad). But oddly it's many of the young people who support independence in Scotland, and I guarantee they're not doing it for religious reasons.

[Genivaria]

While previously I would've said that it's up to the people said that it's of the people of NI to decide and that they wanted to stay British, the UK choosing to leave the EU is changing alot of minds in both NI and Scotland.

I honestly think that the United Kingdom will soon be just the UK of England and Wales.