The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Socialist Czechia]

What's the point of EU anyway? I mean, no one really thinks there will be anything like 'European Federation', right? Confederacy, perhaps, but only under best circumstances possible.

And more importantly, masses in all countries involved have to agree with that. Even Poles doesn't love any suggestion to be effectively German puppet state, since in practice, EU is controlled by Berlin.

[Kainesia]

I want a country that is sovereign over its own laws. I have no faith in Brussels as a legislature that represents my interests.

1. If we leave won't be able to have any influence in reforming the EU to make it more democratic.
2. And you trust the current UK Parliament to represent your interests? You aren't exactly that influential in a population of ~60 million. Why not have sovereignty for your region? Or county? Or city?

If the UK is independent, and there is a law I don't like, I know who to blame and how to raise the issue. I have an MP, I can set up an e-petition or just plain protest. Regardless, I know that the law I don't like is there because of parliament, and can be changed by parliament.

Under the E.U, I have no idea what laws are made where, who made them, and good luck getting anything changed in that bureaucratic mess.

That and I don't want my taxes being paid to subsidise farmers too inefficient to look after themselves.

[Kainesia]

I'm a 13 year old British citizen (and yes i am interested in politics) and i think it would be terrible for Britain to leave. However i think Britain will leave as voting to change some thing has become the more attractive option. I think those campaining for brexit have the upper hand as all of the big personalitys want brexit. I think that Britain has to stay as otherwise it would devistate the economy, we woud spend years negotiating trade deals and i expect we would probably end up with boris as PM

I am actually doubtful that we will. It will be close, probably 52-48 or around that ballpark. But I think a sizeable number will chicken out and vote to stay.

But I hope Boris can lead us to victory.

[Great Britain Out]

Don't worry my friends, the EU will come to an end and we will all be independent, free to choose our own destinies!

[Vassenor]

I'm a 13 year old British citizen (and yes i am interested in politics) and i think it would be terrible for Britain to leave. However i think Britain will leave as voting to change some thing has become the more attractive option. I think those campaining for brexit have the upper hand as all of the big personalitys want brexit. I think that Britain has to stay as otherwise it would devistate the economy, we woud spend years negotiating trade deals and i expect we would probably end up with boris as PM

I am actually doubtful that we will. It will be close, probably 52-48 or around that ballpark. But I think a sizeable number will chicken out and vote to stay.

But I hope Boris can lead us to victory.

And what then? What happens if the US and others follow through on their threat and all the promises of trade deals fall apart?

[Vassenor]

Don't worry my friends, the EU will come to an end and we will all be independent, free to choose our own destinies!

[citation needed]

[Kainesia]

Don't worry my friends, the EU will come to an end and we will all be independent, free to choose our own destinies!

I am spamming the imaginary like button.

[Kainesia]

I am actually doubtful that we will. It will be close, probably 52-48 or around that ballpark. But I think a sizeable number will chicken out and vote to stay.

But I hope Boris can lead us to victory.

And what then? What happens if the US and others follow through on their threat and all the promises of trade deals fall apart?

The UK is one of the biggest economies in the world and a massive net importer. There is no reason why trade deals we have currently would fall apart. We buy more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. Imposing tariffs would benefit no one.

[Vassenor]

And what then? What happens if the US and others follow through on their threat and all the promises of trade deals fall apart?

The UK is one of the biggest economies in the world and a massive net importer. There is no reason why trade deals we have currently would fall apart. We buy more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. Imposing tariffs would benefit no one.

You mean apart from the explicit statement that the US is not interested in trade with an independent UK?

[-Mr Money-]

Trade won't stop if we leave the EU, to those that don't know what Trade is, it is made by businesses and consumers, not by politicians. It is the attractiveness of the consumer market that fuels trade, not whether a country is in a political union or not.

[Socialist Czechia]

It's pretty ironic though, that EU is using Soviet 'who's not with us is against us' logic, when some state try to defy Ber...Brussels.

[Valaran]

The UK is one of the biggest economies in the world and a massive net importer. We buy more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. Imposing tariffs would benefit no one.

Its honestly a minnow compared to the real giants. Everyone else exports much more to the EU/China/the US than they do the UK - we have minimal leverage on them; most couldn't care less about the UK's imports.

There is no reason why trade deals we have currently would fall apart

The simple reason is that those trade deals don't exist for the UK (they wouldn't fall apart as much as vanish into thin air), and would have to painstakingly renegotiated in every case, likely at disadvantageous conditions, leading to immediate uncertainty, and medium term hardship.

Imposing tariffs would benefit no one.

Tariffs are in many cases, automatic, unless one has a trade deal.

[Teemant]

Trade won't stop if we leave the EU, to those that don't know what Trade is, it is made by businesses and consumers, not by politicians. It is the attractiveness of the consumer market that fuels trade, not whether a country is in a political union or not.

Of course trade doesn't stop but ease of trading will change.

[Kainesia]

The UK is one of the biggest economies in the world and a massive net importer. There is no reason why trade deals we have currently would fall apart. We buy more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. Imposing tariffs would benefit no one.

You mean apart from the explicit statement that the US is not interested in trade with an independent UK?

Source please? That sounds like bullshit to me.

They said that it will be difficult to re-negotiate trade deals because we will be at the back of the queue so to speak, but again, the UK is a big economy, it makes no sense that the U.S would just cut off trade dealings in favour of some country like chad or sierra leone or somewhere.

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

[Valaran]

Trade won't stop if we leave the EU, to those that don't know what Trade is, it is made by businesses and consumers, not by politicians. It is the attractiveness of the consumer market that fuels trade, not whether a country is in a political union or not.

Sudden new rules (ie, the change of old rules since we'd be no longer part of the EU) leads to more paperwork and complications for said businesses. Meanwhile, costs are increased by the onset of tariffs and trade barriers. In light of increased costs (with no immediate sign of abatement) revenue hit, leading to reduced income for said UK firms, possibly creating minor negative multiplier effects if they can't/don't choose to absorb these loses, and certainly reducing expansion or investment by these firms. Meanwhile foreign investment into these firms is hit as their return on investment looks uncertain/worse. Given our sizeable current account deficit, we rely on foreign money. So, this pretty quickly this leads to reduced GDP and trade and investment.

[Socialist Czechia]

Did some people even consider the possibility, that Europe would be actually more prosperous completely without EU? That we doesn't need any integration, unification?



...and if we are stupid enough to slaughter themselves again in pointless warfare, I say, let it continue, we deserve it then.

[Vassenor]

You mean apart from the explicit statement that the US is not interested in trade with an independent UK?

Source please? That sounds like bullshit to me.

They said that it will be difficult to re-negotiate trade deals because we will be at the back of the queue so to speak, but again, the UK is a big economy, it makes no sense that the U.S would just cut off trade dealings in favour of some country like chad or sierra leone or somewhere.

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

And what if it isn't just bluster?

[Kainesia]

Let's not forget that a vote to leave does not mean we jump off the boat straight away, we will remain in for a couple of years while the logistics of leaving are sorted out.

Trade deals won't just end overnight, we will have several years to re-negotiate them.

[Valaran]

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

You may find it hard to believe, but the US doesn't. They're 600% our size. They don't give two shits.

[Kainesia]

Source please? That sounds like bullshit to me.

They said that it will be difficult to re-negotiate trade deals because we will be at the back of the queue so to speak, but again, the UK is a big economy, it makes no sense that the U.S would just cut off trade dealings in favour of some country like chad or sierra leone or somewhere.

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

And what if it isn't just bluster?

Then the U.S would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[Teemant]

You mean apart from the explicit statement that the US is not interested in trade with an independent UK?

Source please? That sounds like bullshit to me.

They said that it will be difficult to re-negotiate trade deals because we will be at the back of the queue so to speak, but again, the UK is a big economy, it makes no sense that the U.S would just cut off trade dealings in favour of some country like chad or sierra leone or somewhere.

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

You have to take into consideration that trade deal negotiations take years and USA might take their time. I think that if UK leaves EU then USA will deliberately wait with any trade negotiations to send a signal to other countries that might want to leave EU. USA can wait because it doesn't depend on UK as much as UK does depend on USA.
USA wants to have a trade deal with Europe but it can't have one if the EU doesn't exist.

[Vassenor]

And what if it isn't just bluster?

Then the U.S would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

And what makes you say that?

This is the same thing we saw during the indyref, when anything potentially problematic was swept under the rug as "Project Fear propaganda".

[Valaran]

Then the U.S would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I think you'll find that we're doing that instead.

Let's not forget that a vote to leave does not mean we jump off the boat straight away, we will remain in for a couple of years while the logistics of leaving are sorted out.

Trade deals won't just end overnight, we will have several years to re-negotiate them.

Indeed and uncertainty from that is an even bigger issue than Brexit itself. As has been noted. Repeatedly. One only needs to look at the pound's value these past months.

[Kainesia]

I find it hard to believe the U.S will place trade deals with Britain as a low priority. I think they are just bluffing to try and keep us in. To avoid making trade deals would harm them as well as us, it is undesirable by all sides.

You may find it hard to believe, but the US doesn't. They're 600% our size. They don't give two shits.

The U.S government doesn't give a shit about 113 billion dollars of trade? I know there are folks like Cruz and Rubio and that bloke who threw the snowball in congress, but the U.S government is not all run by idiots.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4120.html

[Kainesia]

Then the U.S would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I think you'll find that we're doing that instead.

Let's not forget that a vote to leave does not mean we jump off the boat straight away, we will remain in for a couple of years while the logistics of leaving are sorted out.

Trade deals won't just end overnight, we will have several years to re-negotiate them.

Indeed and uncertainty from that is an even bigger issue than Brexit itself. As has been noted. Repeatedly. One only needs to look at the pound's value these past months.

A drop in the pound is not a bad thing. It makes British exports more competitive. Why do you think china intentionally under-values its currency?