The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[The Twenty-first Reich]

I'm rather more interested in what happens in the hypothetical scenario where England narrowly votes to leave, but (assuming, for the sake of argument, a roughly 50/50 split in NI) the UK as a whole votes to stay on the back of strong Scottish and Welsh support for the EU.

Or perhaps London, Scotland, and Wales vote to stay, and thereby keep England in despite England outside of London voting to leave.

That's presuming that Scotland, Wales and London mostly vote to stay in. Welsh and Scottish and London voters are waking up to the fact that it is not good for them or the rest of the country to stay in the EU. I think we'll see a lot more Scottish and Welsh and London voters voting to leave than people think.

Says a lot that your Kingdom Great Britain Out and my Nazi Republic have the same ideology, Inoffensive Centrist. You Nazi.

[Imperializt Russia]

I vote in favour of holding a referendum on whether to hold a referendum on where we discuss the UK holding a referendum.

um? what's your legal basis for this?

I give my answer as 1975, Alex.

[The Archregimancy]

I'm rather more interested in what happens in the hypothetical scenario where England narrowly votes to leave, but (assuming, for the sake of argument, a roughly 50/50 split in NI) the UK as a whole votes to stay on the back of strong Scottish and Welsh support for the EU.

Or perhaps London, Scotland, and Wales vote to stay, and thereby keep England in despite England outside of London voting to leave.

daily express literally explodes

Well at least you understood the point of that post; I'm not sure the others choosing to reply to it really grasped that I was thinking through the implications of an interesting hypothetical rather than making a prediction.

[Densaner]

The U.K. Remains a unitary state. It's the UK that's a member of the EU, not Scotland.

perhaps, just perhaps, the UK and france are too over-centralized?

Maybe. But that's a different argument to the one we're having.

[Great Britain Out]

Perhaps you can explain to the class how giving the people a say in their future isn't democratic.

People have elected QUALIFIED REPRESENTATIVES to represent them. That IS democracy.

To return the questions those representatives have been trained and elected to deal with BACK to the people is idiotic. The average Brit has proven absolutely incapable of making an informed or rational decision on this matter and all others in referendums.

It's undemocratic.

So people choosing freely and fairly if they should be in the EU is less democratic than choosing people who have absolutely no power over anything in the EU and can't change anything the unelected, unaccountable Commission do. I don't think so.

[Imperializt Russia]

People have elected QUALIFIED REPRESENTATIVES to represent them. That IS democracy.

To return the questions those representatives have been trained and elected to deal with BACK to the people is idiotic. The average Brit has proven absolutely incapable of making an informed or rational decision on this matter and all others in referendums.

It's undemocratic.

Democracy is rule of the people no? Electing representatives who will rule the people once every few years from a severely limited choice is hardly democratic.

Ideologically nice statement.
Completely infeasible in practice.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

I'm Estonian and I was born in the UK, so the memory is a little fazy- but last time we was in a Union 100 million people died.

So, yeah I'm voting to leave.

When the issues run this deep into British and European Identities, can't you, at least, make an informed decision?
Try this

"Britain will negotiate a new EU relationship without being bound by EU law."
How do they think to achieve that? Even countries like Norway and Switzerland need to follow alot of EU regulations.

"It can secure trade deals with other important countries such as China, India and America."
Yeah, except they don't share your optimism.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -leaves-eu
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china- ... AG20151023

[Vassenor]

Perhaps you can explain to the class how giving the people a say in their future isn't democratic.

People have elected QUALIFIED REPRESENTATIVES to represent them. That IS democracy.

To return the questions those representatives have been trained and elected to deal with BACK to the people is idiotic. The average Brit has proven absolutely incapable of making an informed or rational decision on this matter and all others in referendums.

It's undemocratic.

There is actually no requirement to be formally qualified to stand for election beyond a citizenship and residency requirement. So no, "qualified representatives" is not applicable to the House of Commons.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

People have elected QUALIFIED REPRESENTATIVES to represent them. That IS democracy.

To return the questions those representatives have been trained and elected to deal with BACK to the people is idiotic. The average Brit has proven absolutely incapable of making an informed or rational decision on this matter and all others in referendums.

It's undemocratic.

Except in certain circumstances where a constitutional matter arises. This is one such circumstance. You have a narrow view of democracy if you think just crossing a box once every few years is the only way democracy works.

This is pointless. If you don't see where the flaw is in letting every uneducated person in a country vote on a matter they don't even begin to comprehend, enjoy the UK out vote getting VETOed.

[Ifreann]

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether the topic of the referendum should leave the megathread or remain in it.

That would suggest that this is a democracy, instead of an insidious social experiment under my Machiavellian control.

<strokes fluffy white cat>

<cackles maniacally>

I keep telling people, doctorates turn you evil.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

People have elected QUALIFIED REPRESENTATIVES to represent them. That IS democracy.

To return the questions those representatives have been trained and elected to deal with BACK to the people is idiotic. The average Brit has proven absolutely incapable of making an informed or rational decision on this matter and all others in referendums.

It's undemocratic.

There is actually no requirement to be formally qualified to stand for election beyond a citizenship and residency requirement. So no, "qualified representatives" is not applicable to the House of Commons.

They've been chosen for their qualifying skills.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm Estonian and I was born in the UK, so the memory is a little fazy- but last time we was in a Union 100 million people died.

So, yeah I'm voting to leave.

Fucking.
No.

[Vassenor]

There is actually no requirement to be formally qualified to stand for election beyond a citizenship and residency requirement. So no, "qualified representatives" is not applicable to the House of Commons.

They've been chosen for their qualifying skills.

What do you define as "qualifying skills"?

[The Twenty-first Reich]

Democracy is rule of the people no? Electing representatives who will rule the people once every few years from a severely limited choice is hardly democratic.

Ideologically nice statement.
Completely infeasible in practice.

Julius Caesar got stabbed for this shit and Athens got destroyed. When will people learn?

[The Blaatschapen]

We'll call it the Fourth Reich then. Problem solved!

Well, 14,000 got killed the last time we had a reich, so no to that.

And the last time we had a commonwealth, 75,000 people died.

And since this ''USE'' will be led by Germans...

yeah lel no

Well, get out of the EU and NATO then, Estonia, see what happens :')

EU is, in its inception, meant as a way to keep the peace. Before the EU, we had wars ravaging between member states every other decade. Now... not so much. It's a big bag of money, meant to keep the peace.

I will admit that the EU has its fair share of problems, but widespread purging of its citizens isn't one of them. So it is very unfair to equate the EU with either Nazi Germany or the USSR on that ground.

[Densaner]

Except in certain circumstances where a constitutional matter arises. This is one such circumstance. You have a narrow view of democracy if you think just crossing a box once every few years is the only way democracy works.

This is pointless. If you don't see where the flaw is in letting every uneducated person in a country vote on a matter they don't even begin to comprehend, enjoy the UK out vote getting VETOed.

Ah I see. Can't have the proles voting now, can we? You and people like you are the reason I hate the EU.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

They've been chosen for their qualifying skills.

What do you define as "qualifying skills"?

Like knowing what the 0 benefits of leaving the EU are.
And if anyone dares say "We pay them 13 billion a year", UKIP's campaign cost more than that to fund. So fuck you. Disband UKIP, not the EU.

[Great Britain Out]

I agree that a lot of British politicians are not actually qualified to run the country, but British Politicians are a lot more qualified to control the UK than 28 people that have not been chosen by the people, cannot be removed, are not British and have no idea what happens in the UK, at a local or national level. At least our politicians are chosen by the people and can be removed if they do a crap job.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

This is pointless. If you don't see where the flaw is in letting every uneducated person in a country vote on a matter they don't even begin to comprehend, enjoy the UK out vote getting VETOed.

Ah I see. Can't have the proles voting now, can we? You and people like you are the reason I hate the EU.

Who talked of Proles? Regardless of class, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, number of toes, criminal record, people who aren't qualified to deal with these situations should have no say in them. Or it becomes an ideological shouting match.

Go ask a tribe of chimps what they think should happen and you'll pretty much have the same situation.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

I agree that a lot of British politicians are not actually qualified to run the country, but British Politicians are a lot more qualified to control the UK than 28 people that have not been chosen by the people, cannot be removed, are not British and have no idea what happens in the UK, at a local or national level. At least our politicians are chosen by the people and can be removed if they do a crap job.

28 "people" backed by governments which have several thousand workers.

[Great Britain Out]

What do you define as "qualifying skills"?

Like knowing what the 0 benefits of leaving the EU are.
And if anyone dares say "We pay them 13 billion a year", UKIP's campaign cost more than that to fund. So fuck you. Disband UKIP, not the EU.

UKIP campaign worth every penny, believe me.

[Aelex]

Well, I have only once thing to say; if you English vote to leave, you will have accomplished De Gaulle's original will to keep the U.K out of the E.U.
So let me ask you now, are you really sure that you want to follow the design of the frenchiest of French?
You really should stay just to annoy us.

[Vassenor]

What do you define as "qualifying skills"?

Like knowing what the 0 benefits of leaving the EU are.
And if anyone dares say "We pay them 13 billion a year", UKIP's campaign cost more than that to fund. So fuck you. Disband UKIP, not the EU.

Plus we'd pay a lot less if all the UKIP MEPs weren't hypocritically trying to sponge as much as possible in expenses.

[The Twenty-first Reich]

Like knowing what the 0 benefits of leaving the EU are.
And if anyone dares say "We pay them 13 billion a year", UKIP's campaign cost more than that to fund. So fuck you. Disband UKIP, not the EU.

UKIP campaign worth every penny, believe me.

I hope a white UKIP member rapes your family and then an immigrant helps you out by giving you a fiver.

[Densaner]

Ah I see. Can't have the proles voting now, can we? You and people like you are the reason I hate the EU.

Who talked of Proles? Regardless of class, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, number of toes, criminal record, people who aren't qualified to deal with these situations should have no say in them. Or it becomes an ideological shouting match.

Go ask a tribe of chimps what they think should happen and you'll pretty much have the same situation.

Wow you really are something. Do you have to go to Oxbridge or Eton? There is no set qualification to be a politician.