Sex robots: a threat to gender equality?

[Gauthier]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

[Esternial]

It's somewhat off-topic, but I do have to wonder what effect the absence of pornography would have. In our current situation it's easy to highlight what's wrong, but that doesn't immediately mean that removing it would improve things. I'm sure it would address some problems, but in its wake it might create new problems, wouldn't you agree?

Prohibition always ends up creating a thriving black market.

Porn already has a big black market

[Hurdegaryp]

I don't know if it's allowed in vegan recipes, though.

I doubt it.

Though, no animal suffers...

You could even say the opposite is the case.

[Liberphone]

I doubt it.

Though, no animal suffers...

You could even say the opposite is the case.

So perhaps it is preferred.

[Liberphone]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

Skoptsy?

[Union Of Autocratic Empires]

This is the kind of thing that makes feminism look ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know modern feminism (actual feminism, mind you, not this female supremacism new ideology) raises some very valid points and has done a lot of things to improve the situation of women all over the world, but this, this is just radical nonsense that damages the image of this brave ideal (of gender equality, not superiority).

I mean, aren't there more pressing issues involving discrimination against women other than sex toys that look like them and might encourage actual sexual violence against women (the same way D&D drives to satanism and videogames train mass murderers)? This kind of crusades agains such trivial matters are actually a disservice towards true feminists.

On the bright side, very well done OP. Maybe the sources are a tad bit biased, but hey, impartial journalism is hard to come across

[Gauthier]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

Skoptsy?

Look it up and brace yourself.

[Chessmistress]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

Every time you post I learn something new: last time I learned what are fleshlights, this time it's Skoptsy

The Skoptsy (Russian: скопцы, also transliterated as Skoptzy, Skoptzi, Skoptsi, Skopzi, Scoptsy, Skapetz and other spellings) were a secret sect in Tsarist Russia. The Skoptsy are best known for practicing castration of men and the mastectomy of women in accordance with their teachings against sexual lust. The movement originated as an offshoot of the sect known as the "People of God" and was first noted in the late 18th century. The Skoptsy were persecuted by the imperial government and later by the Soviet Union, but enjoyed substantial growth before fading into obscurity by the mid-20th century.

A secret sect practicing mastectomy and castration...
I fail to see how this is related with OP.
Are you able to tell why you're so totally against the whole idea of being against sex robots?
I already wrote I have no intention to promote a ban on your fleshlights, I don't even think about such things, so, why you worry so much?

I mean, aren't there more pressing issues involving discrimination against women other than sex toys that look like them and might encourage actual sexual violence against women (the same way D&D drives to satanism and videogames train mass murderers)? This kind of crusades agains such trivial matters are actually a disservice towards true feminists.

On the bright side, very well done OP. Maybe the sources are a tad bit biased, but hey, impartial journalism is hard to come across

There are more pressing issues, indeed this isn't the main effort of us Feminists, not even closer.
Still, even that's an issue, and it's not so irrelevant because it's directly related with prostitution and pornography, very important Feminist issues.
I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

[Liberphone]

Skoptsy?

Look it up and brace yourself.

Thanks for the warning…?
Edit: The hell? Why?

[Liberphone]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

Every time you post I learn something new: last time I learned what are fleshlights, this time it's Skoptsy

The Skoptsy (Russian: скопцы, also transliterated as Skoptzy, Skoptzi, Skoptsi, Skopzi, Scoptsy, Skapetz and other spellings) were a secret sect in Tsarist Russia. The Skoptsy are best known for practicing castration of men and the mastectomy of women in accordance with their teachings against sexual lust. The movement originated as an offshoot of the sect known as the "People of God" and was first noted in the late 18th century. The Skoptsy were persecuted by the imperial government and later by the Soviet Union, but enjoyed substantial growth before fading into obscurity by the mid-20th century.

A secret sect practicing mastectomy and castration...
I fail to see how this is related with OP.
Are you able to tell why you're so totally against the whole idea of being against sex robots?
I already wrote I have no intention to promote a ban on your fleshlights, I don't even think about such things, so, why you worry so much?

I mean, aren't there more pressing issues involving discrimination against women other than sex toys that look like them and might encourage actual sexual violence against women (the same way D&D drives to satanism and videogames train mass murderers)? This kind of crusades agains such trivial matters are actually a disservice towards true feminists.

On the bright side, very well done OP. Maybe the sources are a tad bit biased, but hey, impartial journalism is hard to come across

There are more pressing issues, indeed this isn't the main effort of us Feminists, not even closer.
Still, even that's an issue, and it's not so irrelevant because it's directly related with prostitution and pornography, very important Feminist issues.
I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

What does that last word mean to you?

[Esternial]

I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

Not to toot my own horn but I try to look at a subject from as an objective a viewpoint as possible, and your ideas tend to sound somewhat biased even to me.

Partially because you don't phrase them objectively 90% of the time. Which isn't a bad thing per-se but doesn't really mean they're objective to people that aren't masculinists.

[New DeCapito]

Just waiting to see how long it takes before the OP proposes mandatory male membership (snrk) in Skoptsy as the best solution to gender equality.

Every time you post I learn something new: last time I learned what are fleshlights, this time it's Skoptsy

The Skoptsy (Russian: скопцы, also transliterated as Skoptzy, Skoptzi, Skoptsi, Skopzi, Scoptsy, Skapetz and other spellings) were a secret sect in Tsarist Russia. The Skoptsy are best known for practicing castration of men and the mastectomy of women in accordance with their teachings against sexual lust. The movement originated as an offshoot of the sect known as the "People of God" and was first noted in the late 18th century. The Skoptsy were persecuted by the imperial government and later by the Soviet Union, but enjoyed substantial growth before fading into obscurity by the mid-20th century.

A secret sect practicing mastectomy and castration...
I fail to see how this is related with OP.
Are you able to tell why you're so totally against the whole idea of being against sex robots?
I already wrote I have no intention to promote a ban on your fleshlights, I don't even think about such things, so, why you worry so much?

I mean, aren't there more pressing issues involving discrimination against women other than sex toys that look like them and might encourage actual sexual violence against women (the same way D&D drives to satanism and videogames train mass murderers)? This kind of crusades agains such trivial matters are actually a disservice towards true feminists.

On the bright side, very well done OP. Maybe the sources are a tad bit biased, but hey, impartial journalism is hard to come across

There are more pressing issues, indeed this isn't the main effort of us Feminists, not even closer.
Still, even that's an issue, and it's not so irrelevant because it's directly related with prostitution and pornography, very important Feminist issues.
I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

Congratulations on implied sexism. Those who seek true equality between men and women see those as issues too. Judging people on their genders is a dangerous game, Chessmistress. You would know.

[Esternial]

Every time you post I learn something new: last time I learned what are fleshlights, this time it's Skoptsy



A secret sect practicing mastectomy and castration...
I fail to see how this is related with OP.
Are you able to tell why you're so totally against the whole idea of being against sex robots?
I already wrote I have no intention to promote a ban on your fleshlights, I don't even think about such things, so, why you worry so much?



There are more pressing issues, indeed this isn't the main effort of us Feminists, not even closer.
Still, even that's an issue, and it's not so irrelevant because it's directly related with prostitution and pornography, very important Feminist issues.
I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

Congratulations on implied sexism. Those who seek true equality between men and women see those as issues too. Judging people on their genders is a dangerous game, Chessmistress. You would know.

She's made it abundantly clear, and explicitly said so, that she doesn't care about men's rights. I don't see why every so often people call her out on that and say "Aha!" as if they've caught someone with their hand in the cookie jar.

Waste of your time, really.

[New DeCapito]

Congratulations on implied sexism. Those who seek true equality between men and women see those as issues too. Judging people on their genders is a dangerous game, Chessmistress. You would know.

She's made it abundantly clear, and explicitly said so, that she doesn't care about men's rights. I don't see why every so often people call her out on that and say "Aha!" as if they've caught someone with their hand in the cookie jar.

Waste of your time, really.

I would like to see where she said that, but I shall depart anyhow. It is surprisingly hard to change a person's beliefs, and the evidence shows me I shouldn't bother here.

[The Lone Alliance]

Real reason feminists would be against sexbots is that it would be competition.
More people would rather hang around a robot than a rad fem.

[Chessmistress]

She's made it abundantly clear, and explicitly said so, that she doesn't care about men's rights. I don't see why every so often people call her out on that and say "Aha!" as if they've caught someone with their hand in the cookie jar.

Waste of your time, really.

I would like to see where she said that, but I shall depart anyhow. It is surprisingly hard to change a person's beliefs, and the evidence shows me I shouldn't bother here.

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, not about men.
There's even a quite popular meme among some Feminists: "what about teh menz"? mocking the idea that Feminism should care about men
http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/201 ... -teh-menz/

[Celseon]

Yes.
I also realise you didn't bother to read the OP.
Again
http://campaignagainstsexrobots.org/201 ... -of-women/

Sex toys, aka dildos and fleshlights, are not mentioned.
The issue is about sex robots, just only sex robots.

Sex bots would be sex toys by definition, which is kind of central to the complaint being raised against them. The root complaint is that sex bots would take what pornography and sex toys like fleshlights allegedly already do to women according to sex-negative feminists and push it to its ultimate manifestation, literally turning women into sex toys by providing men with access to toys made to look, sound, feel, smell, and move as though they were living, breathing women sans capacity for independent thought or sincere emotion. The fear is that these toys would strip women of our subjectivity, socially disconnect men from women, and bring the notion that women are mere objects for men's sexual pleasure into greater acceptance, particularly in an age where pornography is used by adolescents as a substitute for sex education in contexts where the latter is unavailable for whatever reason.

Once again, if the admission is made that people we know had access to and played with sex toys and consumed pornography in the past have nevertheless remained able to distinguish an actual person and relationships therewith from the characters and relationships portrayed in pornographic works or the toys they were playing with, and it was, it becomes possible to argue that people would be able to distinguish between sexual intercourse and relationships with a robot and those with a human in the same way. Further, if the claim is made that the lack of availability of quality sex education ultimately serves as the most significant risk factor for adolescents forming misconceptions about human relationships in a context where pornography and sex toys are more advanced and ubiquitous than ever before it makes infinitely more sense to make sex education's availability and quality the focus of that discussion rather than discussion about dumbing down or banning the toys or pornography in question. That includes sex bots.

This is, of course, to put aside my complaints about the damage banning sex bots would do to women's agency, stripping away a part of our control over our own likenesses by denying us even the opportunity to decide for ourselves whether to model for pornography or sex toy manufacture. It's relevant, but it's not the most direct criticism of the OP article's most important premises and conclusions. This is also likely to be ignored by you as it was before, but I figured I'd post this for the benefit of progeny since you keep flinging that article about.

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, not about men.

Not if you asked me it's not, and as I have indicated above I consider that even if this were what feminism were about women's rights and empowerment are clearly not what you're advocating for as you continue to whine about sex toys and pornography.

[Esternial]

I would like to see where she said that, but I shall depart anyhow. It is surprisingly hard to change a person's beliefs, and the evidence shows me I shouldn't bother here.

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, not about men.
There's even a quite popular meme among some Feminists: "what about teh menz"? mocking the idea that Feminism should care about men
http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/201 ... -teh-menz/

You're free to proclaim your ideals under the moniker of Feminism, and I'm sure there will be women (and men) that proclaim their under that same name. People have different definitions of the term and the term "Feminism" has become more of an umbrella term, really. You're free to disagree, as others do in respect to you.

I'd just wish people didn't focus so much on the whole "but you're not a REAL feminist" like a bunch of kids with a treehouse. Admittedly it's hard not to because 'tis the internet and everyone is wrong but oneself, and I'm certainly guilty of that myself.

I've reached that point where I just don't really care what you call the horse so long as you make it run.

[Chessmistress]

The root complaint is that sex bots would take what pornography and sex toys like fleshlights allegedly already do to women according to sex-negative feminists and push it to its ultimate manifestation, literally turning women into sex toys by providing men with access to toys made to look, sound, feel, smell, and move as though they were living, breathing women sans capacity for independent thought or sincere emotion. The fear is that these toys would strip women of our subjectivity, socially disconnect men from women, and bring the notion that women are mere objects for men's sexual pleasure into greater acceptance, particularly in an age where pornography is used by adolescents as a substitute for sex education in contexts where the latter is unavailable for whatever reason.

More precisely, the root complaint is that sex robots would be even worse than pornography. Sex robots are actually a minor issue compared to pornography just only because pornography is already widespread when instead sex robots are still under development.

Once again, if the admission is made that people we know had access to and played with sex toys and consumed pornography in the past have nevertheless remained able to distinguish an actual person and relationships therewith from the characters and relationships portrayed in pornographic works or the toys they were playing with, and it was, it becomes possible to argue that people would be able to distinguish between sexual intercourse and relationships with a robot and those with a human in the same way. Further, if the claim is made that the lack of availability of quality sex education ultimately serves as the most significant risk factor for adolescents forming misconceptions about human relationships in a context where pornography and sex toys are more advanced and ubiquitous than ever before it makes infinitely more sense to make sex education's availability and quality the focus of that discussion rather than discussion about dumbing down or banning the toys or pornography in question. That includes sex bots.

Do you wish sources about how damaging pornography is for women?
I already posted such sources,many times...
Sex education is very important, I would say it's the most important thing for tackling male violence against women, but that doesn't mean that sex education would be enough against an issue like like sex robots (again: it has all the potential to be even worse than pornography). Also worth noticing that in many countries in Europe there's already a somewhat decent (even if it's not good enough) sex education but that doesn't prevent violence against women, not even closer. Perhaps a very good sex education would result in a very relevant reduction of violenceagainst women, but it would be something different against sex robots - sex robots are like an escalation of pornography.

This is, of course, to put aside my complaints about the damage banning sex bots would do to women's agency, stripping away a part of our control over our own likenesses by denying us even the opportunity to decide for ourselves whether to model for pornography or sex toy manufacture.

Sex industry is male dominated and catered to males. Needless to say more.

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, not about men.

No, and as I have indicated above even if it were women's rights and empowerment are clearly not what you're advocating for as you continue to whine about sex toys and pornography.

It seems we have a very different idea about what women's empowerment is....

[Esternial]

More precisely, the root complaint is that sex robots would be even worse than pornography. Sex robots are actually a minor issue compared to pornography just only because pornography is already widespread when instead sex robots are still under development.

Sex education is very important, I would say it's the most important thing for tackling male violence against women, but that doesn't mean that sex education would be enough against an issue like like sex robots (again: it has all the potential to be even worse than pornography). Also worth noticing that in many countries in Europe there's already a somewhat decent (even if it's not good enough) sex education but that doesn't prevent violence against women, not even closer. Perhaps a very good sex education would result in a very relevant reduction of violenceagainst women, but it would be something different against sex robots - sex robots are like an escalation of pornography.

Sex industry is male dominated and catered to males. Needless to say more.

First off, just wanted to highlight a small contradiction there.

Secondly, referring to the bolded, what would you suggest?

Personally, I'd think it would be better to reform the sex industry rather than do away with it. Quoting you from another thread: It's called being realistic. The sex industry is much like big tobacco and alcohol industries. They're not good for you, but it's too late to get rid of them. They're like a tumour that has burrowed too deep into mankind's brain for it to be removed without causing permanent neural damage. People like booze, tobacco and porn. Now I'm not sure what your position is, but I'm sure there are people that do think all porn should be banned, and I think those people are disconnected from reality and think society is like a smartphone that they can just put a different SIM card into.

[Celseon]

More precisely, the root complaint is that sex robots would be even worse than pornography.

That is exactly what I said the complaint was. That they would advance what you allege pornography has already done even further, to total completion of objectification.

Sex robots are actually a minor issue compared to pornography just only because pornography is already widespread when instead sex robots are still under development.

I don't consider either to be problematic in themselves at all. They have problems, sure, but they're problems that could be solved without jerking one's knee and banning them. I've already described some potential problem areas and how to address them. Improvement of contract negotiation conditions during setting terms for use of one's likeness, for instance.

Do you wish sources about how damaging pornography is for women? I already posted such sources,many times...

The OP article at issue states that generations preceding the commercial internet can distinguish relationships between real life sexual partners and the sort of fantastic relationships portrayed in pornographic works. It frames this distinction obvious, the process of making it so close to instinctive that the concept of being unable to make it might be shocking for the reader. I've merely accepted that premise at initiation. If you have a problem with that premise you need to account for the fact that it is not me who first introduced it to the discussion.

Sex education is very important, I would say it's the most important thing for tackling male violence against women, but that doesn't mean that sex education would be enough against an issue like like sex robots (again: it has all the potential to be even worse than pornography). Also worth noticing that in many countries in Europe there's already a somewhat decent (even if it's not good enough) sex education but that doesn't prevent violence against women, not even closer. Perhaps a very good sex education would result in a very relevant reduction of violence against women, but it would be something different against sex robots - sex robots are like an escalation of pornography.

I'm not saying that sex education is a magic wand that will make things like rape and harassment disappear. I'm saying that pornography and sex toys aren't a magic wand that makes them appear. Those crimes are more complicated than that.

Sex industry is male dominated and catered to males. Needless to say more.

It doesn't matter if the primary purchasers of pornography are male and the content is designed for a male audience, and there's also to consider that female-oriented pornography does exist and it is possible for women to enjoy pornography aimed at males. What matters is the first part, and that's something that can be solved without banning pornography. There is need to say much more, but I see no benefit in saying it to you.

It seems we have a very different idea about what women's empowerment is....

And I have explained that difference. You want to take away women's agency by making our decisions for us. I want to promote women's agency by giving us more opportunities to make decisions for ourselves. It's night and day, really.

[Union Of Autocratic Empires]

I mean, aren't there more pressing issues involving discrimination against women other than sex toys that look like them and might encourage actual sexual violence against women (the same way D&D drives to satanism and videogames train mass murderers)? This kind of crusades agains such trivial matters are actually a disservice towards true feminists.

On the bright side, very well done OP. Maybe the sources are a tad bit biased, but hey, impartial journalism is hard to come across

There are more pressing issues, indeed this isn't the main effort of us Feminists, not even closer.
Still, even that's an issue, and it's not so irrelevant because it's directly related with prostitution and pornography, very important Feminist issues.
I'm not impartial, I'm a Feminist, I know my ideas can sound biased to masculinists.

Never heard about masculinists, do you mean Men Rights' Advocates? Because they raise some valid points, too (double standard: rape, female on male; favoritism in custody hearings, being ridiculed if they come out on being abused by females, etc) but that's besides the point.

I personally consider myself someone who sees men and women equal and would like people to stop caring about one's genitalia. The only way I think one gender is superior to the other is that women make slightly better soldiers.

And what's wrong with prostitution and porn? As long as everyone is willing and taken good care of, it shouldn't be a problem. We should only intervene when one of this conditions isn't met.

[Alvecia]

Seems to me the best solution would be to make more sex robots for women.
The economy benefits.
Equality benefits.
Women benefit

[Union Of Autocratic Empires]

Seems to me the best solution would be to make more sex robots for women.
The economy benefits.
Equality benefits.
Women benefit

I support this idea. Everyone wins!

[USS Donald Trump]

The point of sex robots is that you're using them as a "thing" not people.

I know, but using sexual violence against things shaped like women encourage males to view real women as objects and even to being violent towards real women.
That's the point, and is already explained within the OP.
I think you need to read the excerpt by Lydia Kaye within the OP, that gives a very comprehensive Feminist view about the issue, even citing the work of a prominent Feminist scholar like Gail Dines.

That's like saying that everytime a soldier comes home he has an undying need to go right back into the war.