Swedish Liberals want to legalise necrophilia and incest

[Italios]

Incest between family members 15 and older. 15 is the legal age of consent in Sweden.
Necrophilia between (presumably) an adult, and a piece of meat which once was a human person.

How is pedophilia next?

That's an absurd slippery slope. I presume you can't make an argument against incest or necrophilia?

Can you make an argument against Pedophilia with consent?

I would say that because there are children involved, consent may be forced, or they may not actually know what they're consenting to.

Of course that could happen between adults too, but it'd be more likely to happen from a child.

[Belhorizon]

Can you make an argument against Pedophilia with consent?

I would say that because there are children involved, consent may be forced, or they may not actually know what they're consenting to.

Of course that could happen between adults too, but it'd be more likely to happen from a child.

Can you make an argument against Pedophilia with consent?

Children can't really consent

Both arguments I'd agree with, but both that can't hold in my opinion.
A thing that can came to my mind is children getting punished for crimes they commit. I can easily see how that can be used against the argument, in the classic style of making it seem oppressive not to legalize pedophilia.
"If Children can be held accountable for crimes they commit, they can be held accountable for their sex lives. "

[AiliailiA]

Incest between family members 15 and older. 15 is the legal age of consent in Sweden.
Necrophilia between (presumably) an adult, and a piece of meat which once was a human person.

How is pedophilia next?

That's an absurd slippery slope. I presume you can't make an argument against incest or necrophilia?

Can you make an argument against Pedophilia with consent?

Perhaps I could.

But it would be a distraction. If Slakonian answers my post, substantially, and then asks that question. Then I will answer.

Please allow Slakonian some time to reply, before dumbing down the debate with your obviously trite replies.

[Hirota]

Soon they would suggest pedophilia be allowed because in ancient Athenian democracy was common.... oh god

There are plenty of people in the regressive left who happen to be pedophiles, or defend their activities. And it's reached the mainstream media, and even government authorities have turned a blind eye. I would not be shocked if your prediction was proven true.

[Slakonian]

Soon they would suggest pedophilia be allowed because in ancient Athenian democracy was common.... oh god

There are plenty of people in the regressive left who happen to be pedophiles, or defend their activities. And it's reached the mainstream media, and even government authorities. I would not be shocked if your prediction was proven true.

After reading these links....

[MERIZoC]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

Has anyone posted an English translation of the young Liberals platform on sex laws in Sweden?

I'm particularly curious how they would "liberalize" prostitution.

IDK about the party's position on sex laws in general, but in this case it's just a local youth wing saying this, and the statement's been met by ridicule by other party figures.

[AiliailiA]

I would say that because there are children involved, consent may be forced, or they may not actually know what they're consenting to.

Of course that could happen between adults too, but it'd be more likely to happen from a child.

Children can't really consent

Both arguments I'd agree with, but both that can't hold in my opinion.
A thing that can came to my mind is children getting punished for crimes they commit. I can easily see how that can be used against the argument, in the classic style of making it seem oppressive not to legalize pedophilia.
"If Children can be held accountable for crimes they commit, they can be held accountable for their sex lives. "

Children shouldn't be held accountable (to an adult standard) for crimes. That they ARE, in some barbarous jurisdictions, is no sound basis to grant them rights unrelated to those to crimes.

Perhaps children can consent to sex in some cases. Perhaps children can be held accountable for crimes, in some cases.

It should be easy for a child to escape conviction if accused of crime (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense should easily be able to maintain this). It should be hard for a child to prove their consent to sex (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense has to disprove the presumption and show they were competent).

Unfortunately, the child's capacity is not considered when they consented to sex: they're presumed to be a victim (unable to consent). The child's capacity is considered, when they're accused of a crime. It's responsibility without power.

[Belhorizon]

Both arguments I'd agree with, but both that can't hold in my opinion.
A thing that can came to my mind is children getting punished for crimes they commit. I can easily see how that can be used against the argument, in the classic style of making it seem oppressive not to legalize pedophilia.
"If Children can be held accountable for crimes they commit, they can be held accountable for their sex lives. "

Children shouldn't be held accountable (to an adult standard) for crimes. That they ARE, in some barbarous jurisdictions, is no sound basis to grant them rights unrelated to those to crimes.

Perhaps children can consent to sex in some cases. Perhaps children can be held accountable for crimes, in some cases.

It should be easy for a child to escape conviction if accused of crime (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense should easily be able to maintain this). It should be hard for a child to prove their consent to sex (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense has to disprove the presumption and show they were competent).

Unfortunately, the child's capacity is not considered when they consented to sex: they're presumed to be a victim (unable to consent). The child's capacity is considered, when they're accused of a crime. It's responsibility without power.

I mostly agree, although I'm curious about what you'd think is an appropriate level of 'punishment' for child 'criminals'. But doing so here would further derail the thread, so I'll stay satisfied with this.

[Ostroeuropa]

Incest between family members 15 and older. 15 is the legal age of consent in Sweden.
Necrophilia between (presumably) an adult, and a piece of meat which once was a human person.

How is pedophilia next?

That's an absurd slippery slope. I presume you can't make an argument against incest or necrophilia?

Can you make an argument against Pedophilia with consent?

No, Pedophilia with informed consent would be entirely fine and ethically justifiable.

Now, can you point me to a child capable of giving consent in this manner?
Oh, and there's the problem.

There's nothing inherently wrong with sex with a child. What's wrong is sex without consent, and children are not deemed capable of it.

It's an extra step in the moral reasoning process that people tend to overlook.

If you could hypothetically boost cognitive development to a significant degree, nothing about physical or chronological status of the child would lend itself toward making the act wrong. It's the exploitative nature of the act that is the problem.

This nuance gets lost from peoples desperation to virtue signal and the demonization of sex crimes. (Which always strikes me as similar to those pastors railing against homosexuality tbh.)

So what you've essentially done is similar to if I said:

"Can you make an argument in favor of legalizing raping a corpse?"

No, I can't. Because that's incoherent, just like "Pedophilia with consent" as a concept.
What you've asked is for some hypothetical magically cognitively developed child and yes, in those instances, it would be entirely acceptable.

Similar to my proposal for raping a corpse, say, a zombie or a vampire.
I accept that yes, that would also be unethical, but that doesn't mean a normal corpse is the same as that, just like a non-magic child isn't the same as your hypothetical child capable of informed consent.

You can tell this is the case, because in instances where a persons cognitive development is greatly slowed, their chronological and physical age isn't deemed relevant.

[Ifreann]

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>>>/pol/

[Gravlen]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

Has anyone posted an English translation of the young Liberals platform on sex laws in Sweden?

I'm particularly curious how they would "liberalize" prostitution.

226. att köpa och sälja sex är i sig inget negativt. det finns dock många problem som trafficking och utnyttjande. dessa problem kan dock bemötas utan att förbjuda sexköp. ett exempel är licensiering av sexsäljare.

226. to buy and sell sex is in itself not negative. there are however many problems such as trafficking and exploitation. these problems can be addressed without prohibiting the purchase of sex. an example is the licensing of sex workers.

Action plan 2015

[Zoice]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

Has anyone posted an English translation of the young Liberals platform on sex laws in Sweden?

I'm particularly curious how they would "liberalize" prostitution.

226. att köpa och sälja sex är i sig inget negativt. det finns dock många problem som trafficking och utnyttjande. dessa problem kan dock bemötas utan att förbjuda sexköp. ett exempel är licensiering av sexsäljare.

226. to buy and sell sex is in itself not negative. there are however many problems such as trafficking and exploitation. these problems can be addressed without prohibiting the purchase of sex. an example is the licensing of sex workers.

Action plan 2015

Sounds good to me.

[AiliailiA]

Children shouldn't be held accountable (to an adult standard) for crimes. That they ARE, in some barbarous jurisdictions, is no sound basis to grant them rights unrelated to those to crimes.

Perhaps children can consent to sex in some cases. Perhaps children can be held accountable for crimes, in some cases.

It should be easy for a child to escape conviction if accused of crime (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense should easily be able to maintain this). It should be hard for a child to prove their consent to sex (they start from the presumption of being incompetent by reason of age, defense has to disprove the presumption and show they were competent).

Unfortunately, the child's capacity is not considered when they consented to sex: they're presumed to be a victim (unable to consent). The child's capacity is considered, when they're accused of a crime. It's responsibility without power.

I mostly agree, although I'm curious about what you'd think is an appropriate level of 'punishment' for child 'criminals'. But doing so here would further derail the thread, so I'll stay satisfied with this.

You're satisfied? After the quite rude reply I made before?

I'm humbled.

Well in the case of children, most jurisdictions give out more rehabilitation than punishment. I think that's the right approach: children are vulnerable to bad influences from parents and peers and their community, and they're likewise 'vulnerable' to good influences that may be ordered by a court.

You're right this is a derail of the thread.

To one of the issues of the thread, incest: the age of consent in Sweden is 15, so to say that incest between people of 15 or over should be permitted by law, isn't to approve pedophilia. In Sweden, a fifteen year old is considered adult to make that decision.

But I think there should be a slightly higher age of consent, where the older partner is in a 'position of authority' over the younger partner. That could certainly be the case in some relationships of incest (like parent/child, or older/younger sibling). It may be that the younger partner is actually competent to consent despite their dependency on the older partner, but such relationships deserve legal scrutiny.

[Farnhamia]

The one who suggested this shit should be fucking hanged. This, people, is the decadent shit you can expect from liberals.

And this is what we get from people who can't be bothered with the site rules or civility. *** Warned for trolling. ***

[Zyzzytopia]

What is wrong with incest as long as they don't create babies? Sure I wouldn't like it at all but it doesn't harm me if others do it.

As for necrophilia, that also sounds horrible but if it is consensual (they gave consent for it before they died obviously) and done safely, who the hell cares?

[Kauthar]

What is wrong with incest as long as they don't create babies? Sure I wouldn't like it at all but it doesn't harm me if others do it.

As for necrophilia, that also sounds horrible but if it is consensual (they gave consent for it before they died obviously) and done safely, who the hell cares?

both are degeneracy. fuck a living person that isn't related to you.

[Val Halla]

What is wrong with incest as long as they don't create babies? Sure I wouldn't like it at all but it doesn't harm me if others do it.

As for necrophilia, that also sounds horrible but if it is consensual (they gave consent for it before they died obviously) and done safely, who the hell cares?

both are degeneracy. fuck a living person that isn't related to you.

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

[Ifreann]

both are degeneracy. fuck a living person that isn't related to you.

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

Criticising the use of the word 'degeneracy' is degeneracy!

[Kauthar]

both are degeneracy. fuck a living person that isn't related to you.

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

so you think fucking a dead body or your sister isn't degeneracy?

[Lady Scylla]

The youth wing of the Swedish Liberal party has filed a motion to legalize necrophilia and incest

They want to legalize sex between two consenting siblings over the age of 15, and sex with a corpse if there is a written permission made before the person died.

'We don't like morality laws in general, and this legislation is not protecting anyone right now,' Cecilia Johnsson, Liberal Youth chairperson in Stockholm told Aftonbladet.

'We are a youth wing and one of our tasks is to think one step further.

It also said that if a person has stated in a written will that they consent to someone having sex with their corpse, this should also be legal.

'It should be your own decision what happens with your body after you die, and if that happens to be that you want to bequeath your remains to a museum or to science, or if you want to bequeath your remains to someone to sleep with them, then that should be ok,' Ms Johnsson adds.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... enior.html
Since it is from the Daily Mail I shall post from swedish mainstream media because it was the only english source I could find: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22305329.ab

I personally do not agree with this and think it is to bit far. So, what the NSG audience say about this proposal? Should necropfilia and incest be legalised?

Things I trust more than Dailymail.

• Flint's drinking water
• Sex with Charlie Sheen

[Val Halla]

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

Criticising the use of the word 'degeneracy' is degeneracy!

Stop being a degenerate you degenerate. Btw you're a degenerate.

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

so you think fucking a dead body or your sister isn't degeneracy?

If it's consented, then no.

[Farnhamia]

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... enior.html
Since it is from the Daily Mail I shall post from swedish mainstream media because it was the only english source I could find: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22305329.ab

I personally do not agree with this and think it is to bit far. So, what the NSG audience say about this proposal? Should necropfilia and incest be legalised?

Things I trust more than Dailymail.

• Flint's drinking water
• Sex with Charlie Sheen

The Daily Mail is not the topic here.

[Lady Scylla]

Things I trust more than Dailymail.

• Flint's drinking water
• Sex with Charlie Sheen

The Daily Mail is not the topic here.

Never saw it, so my bad. What else is there to really discuss here then?

[Farnhamia]

Never saw it, so my bad. What else is there to really discuss here then?

One does wonder.

[Inayama Junior High]

"I don't like it, therefore it is degenerate". Yay buzzwords!

so you think fucking a dead body or your sister isn't degeneracy?

They probably don't.