Trump bringing back waterboarding and worse

[Galloism]

Proof?

There's a world of difference between someone staring you down and asking you firmly for answers... and someone attacking you repeatedly if you don't tell them the answers.

Yeah. Evidence suggests the first gives better intelligence while the latter gives mostly bullshit.

But I asked for proof. Not conjecture.

[Alyakia]

doubt it all you want, it's there in black and white

"torture does not work" does not mean "torture has never worked once ever". it means "torture rarely if ever works and the cost of using it far outweights its cost, so it is a bad idea to adopt it".

''Torture does not work'' means ''Torture does not work.'' If its ever worked even once, you can't say ''Torture does not work,'' you can only say ''Torture doesn't work in some situations.'' I'm not responsible for people's imprecise use of language. If you say X, your argument will be treated as X.

actually you can say something doesn't work if it fails 99% of the time even if there may be a 1% of the time it sort of works and most people would accept this as a valid usage of the term. your stubborn insistence on a black and white interpretation to serve your own point is not really my problem.

[Infected Mushroom]

''Torture does not work'' means ''Torture does not work.'' If its ever worked even once, you can't say ''Torture does not work,'' you can only say ''Torture doesn't work in some situations.'' I'm not responsible for people's imprecise use of language. If you say X, your argument will be treated as X.

actually you can say something doesn't work if it fails 99% of the time even if there may be a 1% of the time it sort of works and most people would accept this as a valid usage of the term. your stubborn insistence on a black and white interpretation to serve your own point is not really my problem.

If it has worked even once, you can't flat out say ''it doesn't work.''

[Galloism]

doubt it all you want, it's there in black and white

"torture does not work" does not mean "torture has never worked once ever". it means "torture rarely if ever works and the cost of using it far outweights its cost, so it is a bad idea to adopt it".

''Torture does not work'' means ''Torture does not work.'' If its ever worked even once, you can't say ''Torture does not work,'' you can only say ''Torture doesn't work in some situations.'' I'm not responsible for people's imprecise use of language. If you say X, your argument will be treated as X.

How about "torture works as often as buying a lottery ticket leads to wealth"?

[Alyakia]

"my laptop doesn't work"
"what's wrong?"
"when i press the power button it lights up but it never actually boots"
"ever?"
"well, if i press it 100 times sometimes it goes on, but once it goes off i have the same problem"
"so it works?"
"no"
"yes it does, if it goes on once it a blue moon you can't say it doesn't work"
"but it won't go on"
"yes it will"
"bu-"
"that'll be $200 please"

(my granny's laptop actually does this. it's annoying as hell. we have accepted (trigger warning) it doesn't work.)

[Infected Mushroom]

"my laptop doesn't work"
"what's wrong?"
"when i press the power button it lights up but it never actually boots"
"ever?"
"well, if i press it 100 times sometimes it goes on, but once it goes off i have the same problem"
"so it works?"
"no"
"yes it does, if it goes on once it a blue moon you can't say it doesn't work"
"but it won't go on"
"yes it will"
"bu-"
"that'll be $200 please"

(my granny's laptop actually does this. it's annoying as hell. we have accepted (trigger warning) it doesn't work.)

Your laptop is a single object (at any given time, it works or doesn't). Torture is a process and a procedure. Its not the same.

[Galloism]

"my laptop doesn't work"
"what's wrong?"
"when i press the power button it lights up but it never actually boots"
"ever?"
"well, if i press it 100 times sometimes it goes on, but once it goes off i have the same problem"
"so it works?"
"no"
"yes it does, if it goes on once it a blue moon you can't say it doesn't work"
"but it won't go on"
"yes it will"
"bu-"
"that'll be $200 please"

(my granny's laptop actually does this. it's annoying as hell. we have accepted (trigger warning) it doesn't work.)

Your laptop is a single object (at any given time, it works or doesn't). Torture is a process and a procedure. Its not the same.

Buying a lottery ticket is a procedure too.

You heard it here first folks. Buying a lottery ticket leads to wealth.

[Infected Mushroom]

''Torture does not work'' means ''Torture does not work.'' If its ever worked even once, you can't say ''Torture does not work,'' you can only say ''Torture doesn't work in some situations.'' I'm not responsible for people's imprecise use of language. If you say X, your argument will be treated as X.

How about "torture works as often as buying a lottery ticket leads to wealth"?

That claim would be held to pretty stringent numerical standards (first you would need to determine the probability, conclusively across all of history, of winning the lottery + leading to wealth... then you would need to conclusively and exactly determine the probability of torture working)

I don't think it would hold up to scrutiny either

[Infected Mushroom]

Your laptop is a single object (at any given time, it works or doesn't). Torture is a process and a procedure. Its not the same.

Buying a lottery ticket is a procedure too.

You heard it here first folks. Buying a lottery ticket leads to wealth.

Only from you.

[Galloism]

"my laptop doesn't work"
"what's wrong?"
"when i press the power button it lights up but it never actually boots"
"ever?"
"well, if i press it 100 times sometimes it goes on, but once it goes off i have the same problem"
"so it works?"
"no"
"yes it does, if it goes on once it a blue moon you can't say it doesn't work"
"but it won't go on"
"yes it will"
"bu-"
"that'll be $200 please"

(my granny's laptop actually does this. it's annoying as hell. we have accepted (trigger warning) it doesn't work.)

My laptop I always have to press the button twice. Always boots the second time.

Do you know what causes that?

[Galloism]

Buying a lottery ticket is a procedure too.

You heard it here first folks. Buying a lottery ticket leads to wealth.

Only from you.

/shrug

You told me If it works a statistically insignificant percent of time, you can say "it works".

Therefore, buying a lottery ticket works to become wealthy.

[Great Feng]

Sanders>Hillary>Trump.

With that out of the way....
This is honestly not that important. Sure, he'll bring back worse forms of torture-But that's not a big political issue, it's personal preference.
Though torture is cruel.....

[Gigaverse]

Congress studied it.

Torture led to inaccurate information when traditional interrogation led to good intelligence.

Congress proved that torture flat out never worked?

Wow, I never knew we were all martyrs and reincarnations of Jesus Christ in our self-sacrifice and determination to troll interrogators at our own expense. Humanity has truly achieved a new consciousness.

Because you're only thinking in terms of "It almost always works" and "It never works".

nobody denies torture as not working, but they have been trying to cite plenty of sources to show why torture is inefficient cruelty. You, on the other hand, haven't brought up anything.

So, feel free to fantasize torturing people to get all info about their family or you (under torture) spilling so much beans that won't be any left to spill; whatever you want.

[Liriena]

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know

No, we don't, because neither of us has ever actually been tortured, so cut the nonsense and admit that you have nothing.

[Infected Mushroom]

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know

No, we don't, because neither of us has ever actually been tortured, so cut the nonsense and admit that you have nothing.

so you think you would be able to hold out indefinitely? A very unrealistically high opinion of yourself, you have.

[Gauthier]

No, we don't, because neither of us has ever actually been tortured, so cut the nonsense and admit that you have nothing.

so you think you would be able to hold out indefinitely? A very unrealistically high opinion of yourself, you have.

The only unrealistic opinion here is yours where you assume anyone tortured will tell the truth to make it stop.

[Drown]

Another reason not to vote for this dude.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

so you think you would be able to hold out indefinitely? A very unrealistically high opinion of yourself, you have.

The only unrealistic opinion here is yours where you assume anyone tortured will tell the truth to make it stop.

Was there a GoT episode in which someone was tortured for information?

[Infected Mushroom]

so you think you would be able to hold out indefinitely? A very unrealistically high opinion of yourself, you have.

The only unrealistic opinion here is yours where you assume anyone tortured will tell the truth to make it stop.

No that's just common sense. The funny part is those people who think people under torture who HAVE the information would instead endure endless torture by continually feeding bad information. Clearly, many people here have a faulty understanding of human limits and pain tolerance.

[Frank Zipper]

Common sense would be realising that all the false information, that would need to be verified to be useful, would waste massive amounts of time and resources that could be more effectively used in other ways. Creating plausible, but extremely difficult to verify stories, isn't difficult.

[Alyakia]

The only unrealistic opinion here is yours where you assume anyone tortured will tell the truth to make it stop.

No that's just common sense. The funny part is those people who think people under torture who HAVE the information would instead endure endless torture by continually feeding bad information. Clearly, many people here have a faulty understanding of human limits and pain tolerance.

the funny part is that you're still in denial that people will go through severe torture and even death to save their families and that "all you need to do is sell our your family, nation and put your friends/people you have been trained to see as family in immediate danger no biggie" is something that might get people a bit stubborn

[Pranovia]

This is likely the only thing I ever agreed with him on

[The Klishi Islands]

This is likely the only thing I ever agreed with him on

Why do you support a barbaric process that has been shown to produce faulty intelligence?

[Pranovia]

This is likely the only thing I ever agreed with him on

Why do you support a barbaric process that has been shown to produce faulty intelligence?

How was the intelligence produced faulty?

[Cinia]

Why do you support a barbaric process that has been shown to produce faulty intelligence?

How was the intelligence produced faulty?

If you read any of what has been posted, people feed false information. Giving fake info that trick people into thinking you're telling the truth is easier than actually telling the truth.

I do think it's funny that some think that they could hold out through years of torture. Obviously some overestimate their limits.

And what the hell is all this grammar talk? What does it matter whether it works once in a 'blue moon' or not? It's not worth it and it's inhumane.

Something else I want to say to the people who think that it's okay. What would you say if the enemy captured our people and did the same thing we did to their people? Would you sit back and go, yeah, it's justified, or would you complain about it being inhumane?