Trump bringing back waterboarding and worse

[Republic of Canador]

I support crucifixion and the Roman way of threatening to crucify suspects' children or other family members to extract information from them (the suspect).

It makes you wonder if it was the barbarians who conquered or if it was the barbarians who were conquered.

[Infected Mushroom]

If someone is tortured, they will do anything to stop the torture (that's how we are wired as human beings).

Which is "Tell Them What They Want To Hear." Even if it's complete bullshit. That's why torture was historically used by the Catholic Church to get "confessions" out of apostates and heretic during the Inquisitions.

I never suggested we use torture to extract confessions, that leads to realistic concerns of reliability.

[Atomic Utopia]

Nonsense. Obviously a concentrated population of Muslims is far too risky. We must send them all to opposite corners of the globe.

I hope that this is sarcasm. Regardless, what I meant by deportation to the east was genocide. I can definitely see Trump dreaming of ordering the deaths of millions.

[Miarie]

I support crucifixion and the Roman way of threatening to crucify suspects' children or other family members to extract information from them (the suspect).

It makes you wonder if it was the barbarians who conquered or if it was the barbarians who were conquered.

Say what you will, you don't conquer the Mediterranean by handing flowers; and no civilian dared rebel after seeing what happens.

[Infected Mushroom]

Nonsense. Obviously a concentrated population of Muslims is far too risky. We must send them all to opposite corners of the globe.

I hope that this is sarcasm. Regardless, what I meant by deportation to the east was genocide. I can definitely see Trump dreaming of ordering the deaths of millions.

Trump never said he supported genocide. This is a very irresponsible comment and a leap of logic.

[Republic of Canador]

It makes you wonder if it was the barbarians who conquered or if it was the barbarians who were conquered.

Say what you will, you don't conquer the Mediterranean by handing flowers; and no civilian dared rebel after seeing what happens.

Or you can just not conqueror the Mediterranean in the first place and instead focus on domestic problems.

[Liriena]

This asked to the Game of Thrones fanboy.

Enjoy.

I always pictured Trump as more of a Joffrey, to be honest. A spoiled, ignorant, cruel little brat with bravado the size of Casterly Rock, yet lacking any real merits beyond being born into privilege.

[Miarie]

Say what you will, you don't conquer the Mediterranean by handing flowers; and no civilian dared rebel after seeing what happens.

Or you can just not conqueror the Mediterranean in the first place and instead focus on domestic problems.

Why not both?

[Liriena]

[citation needed]


If it's so ridiculous, then I suppose you can cite cases in which it worked?

I don't need a citation to tell you about basic human behaviour.

No, but you do need a citiation if you are going to claim that torture is actually useful because torture victims will react according to your shoddy behaviourism.

Therefore, it follows from common sense that if a suspect has vital information that we want, torture is a reliable way of extracting that.

So, you have nothing. Alright, then I hereby dismiss your claims. If you cannot actually prove you are right, then why should I bother to treat your arguments as valid?

Furthermore... "common sense"? It's not evidence.

[Napkiraly]

I support crucifixion and the Roman way of threatening to crucify suspects' children or other family members to extract information from them (the suspect).

It makes you wonder if it was the barbarians who conquered or if it was the barbarians who were conquered.

Enh, the Germanic and Slavic tribes weren't any better.

[Napkiraly]

I support crucifixion and the Roman way of threatening to crucify suspects' children or other family members to extract information from them (the suspect).

Crucifixion is for the meek. If you really want to scare the shit out of people, threaten them with scaphism.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't need a citation to tell you about basic human behaviour.

No, but you do need a citiation if you are going to claim that torture is actually useful because torture victims will react according to your shoddy behaviourism.

Therefore, it follows from common sense that if a suspect has vital information that we want, torture is a reliable way of extracting that.

So, you have nothing. Alright, then I hereby dismiss your claims. If you cannot actually prove you are right, then why should I bother to treat your arguments as valid?

Furthermore... "common sense"? It's not evidence.

So if you had important and vital information and you were tortured for it... you would endure endless torture or make things up rather than reveal the information? You must be one in a million. ''Wow... I guess torture really doesn't work. People are going to keep lying or holding out when tortured even when they have vital information. We're all tougher than Dean Winchester.''

[Liriena]

No, but you do need a citiation if you are going to claim that torture is actually useful because torture victims will react according to your shoddy behaviourism.


So, you have nothing. Alright, then I hereby dismiss your claims. If you cannot actually prove you are right, then why should I bother to treat your arguments as valid?

Furthermore... "common sense"? It's not evidence.

So if you had important and vital information and you were tortured for it... you would endure endless torture or make things up rather than reveal the information? You must be one in a million. ''Wow... I guess torture really doesn't work. People are going to keep lying or holding out when tortured even when they have vital information. We're all tougher than Dean Winchester.''

Funny how I never actually claimed anything even remotely similar to that.

Cool strawman, though.

I'll ask again: Can you cite a single real case in which torture worked?

[Miarie]

I support crucifixion and the Roman way of threatening to crucify suspects' children or other family members to extract information from them (the suspect).

Crucifixion is for the meek. If you really want to scare the shit out of people, threaten them with scaphism.

Nice.

[Infected Mushroom]

So if you had important and vital information and you were tortured for it... you would endure endless torture or make things up rather than reveal the information? You must be one in a million. ''Wow... I guess torture really doesn't work. People are going to keep lying or holding out when tortured even when they have vital information. We're all tougher than Dean Winchester.''

Funny how I never actually claimed anything even remotely similar to that.

Cool strawman, though.

I'll ask again: Can you cite a single real case in which torture worked?

Kind of hard to cite that when its illegal under the current international system; I am sure it has extracted at least one real confession in the medieval ages

[Saiwania]

In a speech Trump has gone even better- he proposed that bullets be dipped in pig's blood to deal with Muslim terrorists. Now this is exactly the policy that the US needs against ISIS, this should genuinely strike terror in their hearts and really make them suffer. They're superstitious idiots, so what better than to use parts of their religious myths against them?

[Infected Mushroom]

In a speech Trump has gone even better- he proposed that bullets be dipped in pig's blood to deal with Muslim terrorists. Now this is exactly the policy that the US needs against ISIS, this should genuinely strike terror in their hearts and really make them suffer. They're superstitious idiots, so what better than to use parts of their religious myths against them?

Its a novel approach really.

[Liriena]

Funny how I never actually claimed anything even remotely similar to that.

Cool strawman, though.

I'll ask again: Can you cite a single real case in which torture worked?

Kind of hard to cite that when its illegal under the current international system; I am sure it has extracted at least one real confession in the medieval ages

So, you have nothing, and my dismissal of your argument remains in place. Very well.

[Infected Mushroom]

Kind of hard to cite that when its illegal under the current international system; I am sure it has extracted at least one real confession in the medieval ages

So, you have nothing, and my dismissal of your argument remains in place. Very well.

I don't really care about your dismissal. You can keep it in place or remove it at your pleasure.

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know that if either one of us were tortured and we had vital information that law enforcement needed... we would fold. Hence saying that ''torture doesn't work'' in all situations is nothing short of denial.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So, you have nothing, and my dismissal of your argument remains in place. Very well.

I don't really care about your dismissal. You can keep it in place or remove it at your pleasure.

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know that if either one of us were tortured and we had vital information that law enforcement needed... we would fold. Hence saying that ''torture doesn't work'' in all situations is nothing short of denial.

You'd also make shit up to tell your torturers to make it stop.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't really care about your dismissal. You can keep it in place or remove it at your pleasure.

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know that if either one of us were tortured and we had vital information that law enforcement needed... we would fold. Hence saying that ''torture doesn't work'' in all situations is nothing short of denial.

You'd also make shit up to tell your torturers to make it stop.

So you can get tortured again when it gets verified and found to be made up? I don't see the incentive for doing so.

Maybe for a few hours, I'd be impressed if it can be kept up for days.

I agree that torture can't magically conjure up information (if you don't have it, you don't have it, you can't give what you don't have). But if you have any shred of useful information, you're going to give it up in the process. And that's the point.

[Galloism]

Funny how I never actually claimed anything even remotely similar to that.

Cool strawman, though.

I'll ask again: Can you cite a single real case in which torture worked?

Kind of hard to cite that when its illegal under the current international system; I am sure it has extracted at least one real confession in the medieval ages

I guess the fact that it coerces a lot of false confessions and made up plots just to make the torture stop is irrelevant.

In any case, Congress reviewed the CIA's torture results and concluded there was no credible intelligence obtained via torture.

I especially liked the "plot" to send an operative to Ohio to recruit black people to Islam and mold them into extremists.

[Celseon]

I don't need a citation to tell you about basic human behaviour. When you touch fire, you're going to experience pain and withdraw your hand (unless your nerves don't work). Its human nature and a human need to avoid pain at all cost.

Therefore, it follows from common sense that if a suspect has vital information that we want, torture is a reliable way of extracting that.

Did you know that people confess to crimes they haven't actually committed in order to avoid incurring harsher penalties should they attempt to defend themselves and fail? That humans' drive to avoid suffering can result in provision of misinformation for the sake of avoiding greater suffering or forestalling suffering one considers to be inevitable? One would be quite willing indeed to start pointing to locations on a map if the alternative is that in the next few moments they're going to have a power drill driven into their teeth, and if they can manage to find an opportunity to escape capture in the period between pointing to those locations and discovery that one has bullshitted then all the better from the captive's perspective. At the very least one gets to keep their teeth from being drilled a while longer. Humans love to forestall painful things as long as they can, especially if they consider those things to be inevitable. Which if one cannot find a means of escape, they'll consider torture to be.

Suppose the information you're trying to extract from someone is time-sensitive, like the location of a shipment or the current whereabouts of an important figure. Wasting time chasing down false leads you got so you wouldn't torture someone is, under such circumstances, entirely unacceptable. Considering that, and further considering that the number of times torture has produced actionable, accurate information that couldn't have been obtained by alternative means is relatively low (pretty much if not zero if I recall correctly, which Gallo's statement suggests I do), torture is a waste of time and resources. There are better ways to do what it does.

[Alyakia]

So, you have nothing, and my dismissal of your argument remains in place. Very well.

I don't really care about your dismissal. You can keep it in place or remove it at your pleasure.

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know that if either one of us were tortured and we had vital information that law enforcement needed... we would fold. Hence saying that ''torture doesn't work'' in all situations is nothing short of denial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't really care about your dismissal. You can keep it in place or remove it at your pleasure.

It doesn't change the fact that both you and I know that if either one of us were tortured and we had vital information that law enforcement needed... we would fold. Hence saying that ''torture doesn't work'' in all situations is nothing short of denial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

Anyone can be labelled a martyr if that's how the church wants to spin it to try and energise the morale of the faith