NATION

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Replacing Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What should the US Senate do with the nomination of Merrick Garland?

Refuse to hold hearings on Garland's nomination
12
8%
Hold hearings but reject Garland's nomination
33
23%
Hold hearings and approve Garland's nomination
99
69%
 
Total votes : 144

User avatar
AiliailiA
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27722
Founded: Jul 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby AiliailiA » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:46 pm

greed and death wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
That's the expression Republicans themselves used to describe the refusal to raise the debt ceiling. It wasn't literally a shutdown ... that would be the cessation of all government activities and Congress doesn't have the power to do that unless they can pass bills over the President's veto. Which obviously Republicans couldn't at the time (or now for that matter).

So neither of these is literally a shutdown. Blah, what boring word play.

The Republicans also admitted the debt ceiling was worse than a shut down.

But honestly if debt ceilings and shutdowns which actually effected large numbers of people did not turn the tide against the republicans I doubt refusing to consent to a scotus appointee would have any effect against them.


I sort of agree. It probably won't be a major issue in the elections.

This week it's bad news for Republicans, though. Without gloating about the actual death, we can have a chuckle about how badly the R candidates are handling it can't we?
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User avatar
Greed and Death
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48695
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:47 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
greed and death wrote:
If he appoints a clearly liberal justice they will just vote him no on the grounds his views on X are known.


whats the process? Does it go to the senate judiciary committee first? or does it go to the full senate? Can McConnell just not schedule a hearing?

Judiciary committee first, that is where the candidate is asked the questions. Once they approve it goes to the full senate.

The process takes 1-2 months as the Senate fits them into their schedule. The committee can vote no, table hearings, or otherwise not move the candidate forward.

The whole Senate can filibuster or vote no.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9367
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Godular » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:47 pm

greed and death wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
The current GOP candidates are in the far-right corner of the spectrum. Much further right than the last election, I'll pass.

I am sorry you will lose abortion rights and SSM rights.
But my right to bear arms, be free from affirmative action in university admissions, and right to be free of union dues take more precedence than those.

IF you could only propose a candidate who would protect those rights I cherish perhaps your rights could be saved as well.


I'm curious how union dues and affirmative action constitute a violation of your rights on par with the ability to marry or the ability to control your own body.
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User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:48 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.


People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.


he is not gay, he wants a AR-15.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.


he is not gay, he wants a AR-15.


And avoiding his inconvenience should somehow supersede avoiding oppressing an entire group? Just because injustice doesn't affect you doesn't give you the right to ignore it.

For the record, I'm not a lesbian.
Last edited by Renewed Imperial Germany on Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40526
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.


People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.


Not being able to buy an AR most certainly is a travesty.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm

greed and death wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
whats the process? Does it go to the senate judiciary committee first? or does it go to the full senate? Can McConnell just not schedule a hearing?

Judiciary committee first, that is where the candidate is asked the questions. Once they approve it goes to the full senate.

The process takes 1-2 months as the Senate fits them into their schedule. The committee can vote no, table hearings, or otherwise not move the candidate forward.

The whole Senate can filibuster or vote no.


does the senate get to ask more questions, or is it schedule a debate and vote? (which could either not be done or filibustered)
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Greed and Death
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48695
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:50 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
greed and death wrote:I am sorry you will lose abortion rights and SSM rights.
But my right to bear arms, be free from affirmative action in university admissions, and right to be free of union dues take more precedence than those.

IF you could only propose a candidate who would protect those rights I cherish perhaps your rights could be saved as well.


do lawyers have a union? are you thinking of going back to school? seems to me the only right that you might be worried about there is the right to bear arms. youll probably still be able to shoot coyotes while jogging no matter who is on the court.

In some govnerment jobs yes, they like to form them when budget cuts are coming since it makes it more difficult to lay off or cut pay for attorneys in the department that unionized since it might be viewed as retaliation for unionizing. That's why Teachers normally bear the brunt of Layoffs they are not a newly formed union.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:51 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.


Not being able to buy an AR most certainly is a travesty.


You can kill an intruder just as easily (many would argue even more easily) with a 9mm. A bolt action, .30-06 hunting rifle will kill a deer just as (if not more) efficiently than an AR-15. You don't need an AR-15 to hunt or defend yourself.
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User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:51 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
he is not gay, he wants a AR-15.


And avoiding his inconvenience should somehow supersede avoiding oppressing an entire group? Just because injustice doesn't affect you doesn't give you the right to ignore it.

we will try this again

in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Myrensis
Senator
 
Posts: 4365
Founded: Oct 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Myrensis » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:51 pm

greed and death wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
That's the expression Republicans themselves used to describe the refusal to raise the debt ceiling. It wasn't literally a shutdown ... that would be the cessation of all government activities and Congress doesn't have the power to do that unless they can pass bills over the President's veto. Which obviously Republicans couldn't at the time (or now for that matter).

So neither of these is literally a shutdown. Blah, what boring word play.

The Republicans also admitted the debt ceiling was worse than a shut down.

But honestly if debt ceilings and shutdowns which actually effected large numbers of people did not turn the tide against the republicans I doubt refusing to consent to a scotus appointee would have any effect against them.


The shutdown battle was over a year before the election, and it was a midterm with historically low turnout and an electoral map that heavily favored the Republicans.

This is a Presidential election year which means higher turnout, Republicans have more seats vulnerable, and they will be fighting this battle throughout the duration of the election season with the Democrats calling them out on it every step of the way.

Yes American voters have the attention span of a goldfish, but for the Republicans to achieve their goal here they have to remind them of what they're doing every single day from now until at least November 9th.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48695
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:52 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
greed and death wrote:Judiciary committee first, that is where the candidate is asked the questions. Once they approve it goes to the full senate.

The process takes 1-2 months as the Senate fits them into their schedule. The committee can vote no, table hearings, or otherwise not move the candidate forward.

The whole Senate can filibuster or vote no.


does the senate get to ask more questions, or is it schedule a debate and vote? (which could either not be done or filibustered)

Its normally debate.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:53 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
And avoiding his inconvenience should somehow supersede avoiding oppressing an entire group? Just because injustice doesn't affect you doesn't give you the right to ignore it.

we will try this again

in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.


Yes, your right. People advocate for their interests. And I am allowed to oppose those interests and think they are short-sighted and wrong for pursuing them over more pressing matters. Get used to it.
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User avatar
Greed and Death
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48695
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:54 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.


People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.

Speaking of being wrong.

You know that Assault weapons like the AR-15 are actually small caliber.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:55 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:we will try this again

in the real world, people advocate for their interests. get use to it.


Yes, your right. People advocate for their interests. And I am allowed to oppose those interests and think they are short-sighted and wrong for pursuing them over more pressing matters. Get used to it.


thats lovely. they think the same of your opinion about AR-15's, and they are entitled too.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40526
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:57 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Not being able to buy an AR most certainly is a travesty.


You can kill an intruder just as easily (many would argue even more easily) with a 9mm. A bolt action, .30-06 hunting rifle will kill a deer just as (if not more) efficiently than an AR-15. You don't need an AR-15 to hunt or defend yourself.


Yes I'm well aware I can use a 9mm easier which is why I carry a Glock and keep it loaded at home. I don't plan to use an AR to hunt (given I don't hunt at all) but there are plenty of things I do use rifles for. I see things like Assault Weapon Bans and other such nonsense as a travesty just like you do with LGBT's not being able to marry.

Like Ethel said, in the real world people advocate for their interests.

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:59 pm

greed and death wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
People can advocate for their interests. Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

The simple fact is the constitution would have to be amended to get rid of gun rights. All a liberal SCOTUS can do is uphold regulations on the kinds of guns you can buy. Not being able to buy an AR-15 is an inconvenience. Not being able to marry is a travesty.

Speaking of being wrong.

You know that Assault weapons like the AR-15 are actually small caliber.


Yes I am well aware that 5.56 x 45mm NATO is a small caliber round compared to the 9mm fired by many handguns. 5.56 x 45mm NATO, however, can be considered a "high powered" round in the sense that it travels at a higher velocity than other rounds, and causes much more internal damage to the target due to tumbling. I am not comparing it to .50 BMG or other such full-caliber rifle rounds, although I am sure you could find a .50 BMG-compatable upper and lower receiver for your assault-style weapon, if you looked hard enough. You already have .50 Beowulf. Thats not the point. The point is you can live without your AR-15. You do not need your AR-15. Gays need marriage certificates to be on equal footing with straights.
Last edited by Renewed Imperial Germany on Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:59 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Yes, your right. People advocate for their interests. And I am allowed to oppose those interests and think they are short-sighted and wrong for pursuing them over more pressing matters. Get used to it.


thats lovely. they think the same of your opinion about AR-15's, and they are entitled too.


So its perfectly OK for me to advocate for my interests while they advocate for theirs.
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User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:00 pm

greed and death wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
does the senate get to ask more questions, or is it schedule a debate and vote? (which could either not be done or filibustered)

Its normally debate.


thanx
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Greed and Death
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48695
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:01 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
he is not gay, he wants a AR-15.


And avoiding his inconvenience should somehow supersede avoiding oppressing an entire group? Just because injustice doesn't affect you doesn't give you the right to ignore it.

For the record, I'm not a lesbian.

My view is that I should get my AR-15 and gay people should be able to marry. Since I've been forced to choose I pick the right I am actually interested in exercising.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 95525
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:03 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
thats lovely. they think the same of your opinion about AR-15's, and they are entitled too.


So its perfectly OK for me to advocate for my interests while they advocate for theirs.


correct. that part you are not getting is that their interests are just as valid as yours. People support what is important to them, not what your notion of right and wrong is.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:03 pm

greed and death wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
And avoiding his inconvenience should somehow supersede avoiding oppressing an entire group? Just because injustice doesn't affect you doesn't give you the right to ignore it.

For the record, I'm not a lesbian.

My view is that I should get my AR-15 and gay people should be able to marry. Since I've been forced to choose I pick the right I am actually interested in exercising.


Which is, quite frankly, rather selfish. I, personally, would also rather have both. But that doesn't change the fact that you have no need of owning an AR-15, while a gay person does have a need to get married.
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User avatar
Lady Scylla
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15375
Founded: Nov 22, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lady Scylla » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:12 pm

greed and death wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
The current GOP candidates are in the far-right corner of the spectrum. Much further right than the last election, I'll pass.

I am sorry you will lose abortion rights and SSM rights.
But my right to bear arms, be free from affirmative action in university admissions, and right to be free of union dues take more precedence than those.

IF you could only propose a candidate who would protect those rights I cherish perhaps your rights could be saved as well.


I've read some pretty cuntish things on NS but that took the cake. Congrats.

User avatar
Lady Scylla
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15375
Founded: Nov 22, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lady Scylla » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:14 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
greed and death wrote:I am sorry you will lose abortion rights and SSM rights.
But my right to bear arms, be free from affirmative action in university admissions, and right to be free of union dues take more precedence than those.

IF you could only propose a candidate who would protect those rights I cherish perhaps your rights could be saved as well.


So let me get this straight, you think your right to buy a super-high powered assault rifle that your never really going to need for much anyway is much more important than gays and lesbians being treated like normal couples? Im sorry, but I think its more important that the right to marriage is expanded than you get to play with a glorified deadly toy.


Don't feed it, the entire point of that post was to get a rise out of its target. He's not worth the oxygen and energy. Moving on.

User avatar
Lunatic Goofballs
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 23565
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:18 pm

Lady Scylla wrote:
greed and death wrote:I am sorry you will lose abortion rights and SSM rights.
But my right to bear arms, be free from affirmative action in university admissions, and right to be free of union dues take more precedence than those.

IF you could only propose a candidate who would protect those rights I cherish perhaps your rights could be saved as well.


I've read some pretty cuntish things on NS but that took the cake. Congrats.


*** Warned for trolling ***
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