Should Muslims be banned from buying alcohol?

[Keynsinia]

Ok, what kind of far right terrorism is deliberately targeting its own citizens then?

Breivik, the firebombings, mosque bombs, etc. The amount of far-right terrorism in the west exceeds that of Jihadists, and neither should be ignored or allowed to happen. Domestic terrorists are not only terrorists, but traitors too.

I agree with the sentiment, but you are manipulating statistics a bit. Foreign terrorism is only lower in number than your example because it's hard for jihadists to carry out a foreign attack. Take into the account the people they manage to kill in their own turf (domestically) and the numbers would far outweigh what happens in the west domestically.

[Sociopia]

Or we could just deport them and stop subsidising mass-importation of Islamic migrants to dodge that bullet entirely.

[Keynsinia]

You can interpret islam to be a peaceful religion, but you have to isolate the happy parts of the text to do so, then ignore the rest. Same goes with The Bible/Old Testament. That is moderation, that is using religion as a personal guide and not as a cornerstone for society. There are plenty of Muslims who do that, and they are the majority, but we can't pretend that there are not literalists in very high numbers (10-30% in moderate areas, higher in the middle east) that are too often defended because people conflate critique of them with racism or whatever. The very fact that this thread proposes banning alcohol instead of making efforts to expel these radicals and prevent them from coming back should be insulting. It's clearly not the beer, it's them. They are the problem.

Agreed. One hundred percent in agreement. You go to a foreign country, you conform to their culture. Don't force them to accomadate you, you're lucky to be there.
Germany has a beer-drinking culture. Any "Muslim" who dislikes that, tough. Any real Muslim should not be upset by this. When they start forcing it down your throat, then we'll talk.

Glad we found some middle ground, then.

[Kargham]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

[Greater Hudian Republic]

Knowing a few Muslims drink, and as a Muslim myself this is a rather crap idea to go on for.

A) A few muslims drink

B) Many buy it for parties, friends etc.

[Cruithneach]

Breivik, the firebombings, mosque bombs, etc. The amount of far-right terrorism in the west exceeds that of Jihadists, and neither should be ignored or allowed to happen. Domestic terrorists are not only terrorists, but traitors too.

I agree with the sentiment, but you are manipulating statistics a bit. Foreign terrorism is only lower in number than your example because it's hard for jihadists to carry out a foreign attack. Take into the account the people they manage to kill in their own turf (domestically) and the numbers would far outweigh what happens in the west domestically.

Then we should be fighting radicalisation. The problem is, most of the West is so scared of the response of foreign nations that we aren't willing to do anything to stop radicalisation in foreign countries, and often our foreign policy contributes to radicalisation.
Example: Here's a british newspaper calling Bin Laden a "warrior for peace" http://i.imgur.com/c2qgIh.jpg

Many of the current ISIS generals are actually ex-Baathists from Saddam Hussein's government. Apparently they hate ISIS, and they're only using them to get back in power. Without the Baathists, ISIS wouldn't be a threat at all.

Agreed. One hundred percent in agreement. You go to a foreign country, you conform to their culture. Don't force them to accomadate you, you're lucky to be there.
Germany has a beer-drinking culture. Any "Muslim" who dislikes that, tough. Any real Muslim should not be upset by this. When they start forcing it down your throat, then we'll talk.

Glad we found some middle ground, then.

I think we are on the same side, but neither of us is getting the point across well :{

[Cruithneach]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

"Known as" Muslims. Not real Muslims. Remember that.

[Kvatchdom]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

Europe isn't.

With love from Europe.

[Kvatchdom]

Breivik, the firebombings, mosque bombs, etc. The amount of far-right terrorism in the west exceeds that of Jihadists, and neither should be ignored or allowed to happen. Domestic terrorists are not only terrorists, but traitors too.

I agree with the sentiment, but you are manipulating statistics a bit. Foreign terrorism is only lower in number than your example because it's hard for jihadists to carry out a foreign attack. Take into the account the people they manage to kill in their own turf (domestically) and the numbers would far outweigh what happens in the west domestically.

We're discussing the west's problems.

[Keynsinia]

I agree with the sentiment, but you are manipulating statistics a bit. Foreign terrorism is only lower in number than your example because it's hard for jihadists to carry out a foreign attack. Take into the account the people they manage to kill in their own turf (domestically) and the numbers would far outweigh what happens in the west domestically.

We're discussing the west's problems.

Right, but the discussion was also comparing the West's extremism to the Middle East. You can find extremists anywhere, but saying they are all uniform across cultures is intellectually dishonest. I can show you an act of Buddhist extremism, but that act is not in similar proportion to christian extremism, and it's even further away from Islamic extremism as it stands today.

[Cruithneach]

A lot of people forget Buddhists have extremists. I've yet to see a Jain or Pagan extremist, but that's because they have smaller numbers.

Do you think that politics has something to do with it? The Sunni/Shia divide was caused by politics, I know that much. And that region is horribly unstable, kind of like impoverished Central Africa. Do you think that contributes to terrorism?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

A lot of people forget Buddhists have extremists. I've yet to see a Jain or Pagan extremist, but that's because they have smaller numbers.

Do you think that politics has something to do with it? The Sunni/Shia divide was caused by politics, I know that much. And that region is horribly unstable, kind of like impoverished Central Africa. Do you think that contributes to terrorism?

I would argue there are polytheists who are extremists by taking up nazism.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

I wasnt born in a Muslim country. Have never been to a Muslim country. Likely Will never go to a Muslim country. So where you gonna send me, bruh?

[Cruithneach]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

I wasnt born in a Muslim country. Have never been to a Muslim country. Likely Will never go to a Muslim country. So where you gonna send me, bruh?

I'm more interested in - what will he do to Christians? Send them back to Christian countries? Should Jews all be sent to Israel? Hindus all get sent to India? Where does he stop?

[Vassenor]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

I wasnt born in a Muslim country. Have never been to a Muslim country. Likely Will never go to a Muslim country. So where you gonna send me, bruh?

I think once you start proposing Ethnic Cleansing you've jumped straight past the point where that sort of logic matters.

[Crusader occupied mecca]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

I wasnt born in a Muslim country. Have never been to a Muslim country. Likely Will never go to a Muslim country. So where you gonna send me, bruh?

Obviously Somalia, since they wouldn't be in a position to refuse the dumping of large populations into their land.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

I wasnt born in a Muslim country. Have never been to a Muslim country. Likely Will never go to a Muslim country. So where you gonna send me, bruh?

Obviously Somalia, since they wouldn't be in a position to refuse the dumping of large populations into their land.

Edgy, and pretty funny since the warlords are losing badly.

[Saint Kitten]

We should treat adults like adults and let them decide whether or not they want to drink.

[Kauthar]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

"Known as" Muslims. Not real Muslims. Remember that.

not sure if the term No True Scotsman is fitting here

[Farnhamia]

Why should European laws change for someone who loves to be in stone ageage with 1400 years old rules from there outdated bookbook. They should not be allowed to go anywhere else except in there fellow Muslim country. Europe has done nothing wrong. So why should they have burden on there heads for some barbarians known as muslims
With love from Russia

*** Warned for trolling ***

[TotallyNotEvilLand]

I still like how people state dressing skimpily is the problem.

Not really. Dickheads with a lack of self-control are the problem. I don't see how banning booze is going to help this situation at all, let alone do anything other than make a dozen other problems.

[New Chalcedon]

Source by Force but only if you're Norse, you Horse.

Germany needs to ban alcohol if it wants to prevent further sexual violence and to help North African migrants integrate into society, a Muslim pressure group has claimed.
Commenting on the Cologne sex-attack controversy, MuslimStern, which has 20,000 followers on Facebook, said its mission was to 'highlight the way the media was using the incidents to promote racism against minorities'.
The group complained that the female victims had brought the unwanted attention to themselves by dressing in a manner that North African men were not accustomed to.

The group claimed: 'You cannot expect to chuck a naked antelope in front of a lion and not expect it to react. It is mind boggling that with so much time spent teaching children about sex at school, they completely forget to pass on this basic biological fact.'
As a consequence of the attacks, they urged the German government to introduce a ban across the country on the consumption of alcohol.
The group also blamed women for getting attacked by inciting the young men.
...
Cont.

Elsewhere in the Middle East, the drinking age is far above the European age of drinking. And it might be for a good reason. While alcohol has always been a thing in Europe and drunk regardless of age, alcohol has been banned in Muslim nations for centuries. Perhaps raising the drinking age or having some sort of duel system will prevent young refugees and migrants from getting drunk and incidents like Cologne can be prevented.

Or it's not the alcohol and the actions of these people falls on them alone. That maybe when they compare women to naked antelope and that it is evidence of a wider disregard of women and women's rights?

But I profess, I do not have the answer here. Though, I would like to think it's just the alcohol.

The actions are on the people committing them. Not on the women "inciting" them (what rot!), nor upon alcohol consumption, nor upon their un-involved coreligionists - on themselves alone.

If seeing an immodestly-clad woman revs your engine - suck it up and learn how to control yourself.
If you getting drunk removes your inhibitions against sexual aggression - don't drink.
And if you see one Muslim commit a crime, don't assume that all Muslims have a predisposition to crime.

If this MuslimStern group said what is being claimed they said (and it's a big "if" - media have a bad habit of cherry-picking quotes and sources to push a narrative, and the tabloids are worse than most), it's a disgrace. Integration goes both ways - neither immigrants nor anti-immigrant blowhards can have it all their own way. Banning alcohol won't help the situation, not in the slightest - alcohol consumption actually dramatically increased during Prohibition in the USA, for instance.

I'm more than happy to be flexible to suit religious needs - one topic covered in just that area in my teaching course was how to address Islamic students' religious requirement to pray five times daily (midmorning prayers can happen during recess, and noon prayers at lunchtime - the others can happen outside of school hours) - but they have to reach out, too.

[Stellonia]

"You cannot expect to chuck a naked antelope in front of a lion and not expect it to react."

Well, has it occurred to these individuals that perhaps the source of the problem is the lion as opposed to the naked antelope? If you were faced with a situation involving a lion and a naked antelope, what course of action would you take?

[The Alma Mater]

"You cannot expect to chuck a naked antelope in front of a lion and not expect it to react."

Well, has it occurred to these individuals that perhaps the source of the problem is the lion as opposed to the naked antelope? If you were faced with a situation involving a lion and a naked antelope, what course of action would you take?

Indeed. If a wild and dangerous lion is walking amongst innocent people I would of course shoot it. And I might not even wait until after it actually has attacked someone. Not the angle these muslims and PETA want ofc; but hey.

I am still wondering what "naked" constitutes though. It was freezing that night - I have trouble envisioning hundreds of German ladies walking around in tight dirndls with those temperatures.

[Jochistan]

"Known as" Muslims. Not real Muslims. Remember that.

not sure if the term No True Scotsman is fitting here

Dude, you say that Muslims that aren't ISIS-tier crazy are liars and not real Muslims.

You have about as many legs to stand on as Stephen Hawking.