Current events in Iran: Your thoughts?

[Fartsniffage]

Pakistan is not a democracy.

Umm, exactly?

Bangladesh's "per-capita (inflation-adjusted) GDP has more than doubled since 1975, and the poverty rate has fallen by 20% since the early 1990s. The country is listed among the "Next Eleven" economies." They have also made "significant progress in human development in the areas of literacy, gender parity in schooling and reduction of population growth."

It's also one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

[Valipac]

Pakistan is not a democracy.

Umm, exactly?

Bangladesh's "per-capita (inflation-adjusted) GDP has more than doubled since 1975, and the poverty rate has fallen by 20% since the early 1990s. The country is listed among the "Next Eleven" economies." They have also made "significant progress in human development in the areas of literacy, gender parity in schooling and reduction of population growth."

It's also one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

Pakistan has never really had it's own democratically elected government. It's not the failure of democracy, it's the failure of the British to ensure a properly working system was stably in place when they left.

And Bangladesh is addressing those issues, just like they addressed the others one before. Progress usually comes in steps, not leaps and bounds.

[Belschaft]

Is that because Pakistani and Bengali people are inherently savage or uncivilized or because of institutions that these countries were not ready for?

Africa was lumped with western-style governments and bureaucracies that never existed prior to the colonial era. Europeans set them up, exploited the country, and then left an uneducated population with institutions that they had no tradition of handling.

Meddling with the internal politics and systems of other countries only stunts their development.

Hardly. Colonialism in Africa led to dramatic and rapid development, as well as population and economic growth. Pre colonial Africa was almost entirely rural bellow the sahara, consisting of little more than tribal nations and small villages, with the occasional coastal town. Outside influence brought new ideas, cities, proper education systems, industrilisation and politcal development from local kings. We exploited resources that would not have been used otherwise and advanced their civilisation by at least five hundred years.

[Luna Nostra]

Is that because Pakistani and Bengali people are inherently savage or uncivilized or because of institutions that these countries were not ready for?

Africa was lumped with western-style governments and bureaucracies that never existed prior to the colonial era. Europeans set them up, exploited the country, and then left an uneducated population with institutions that they had no tradition of handling.

Meddling with the internal politics and systems of other countries only stunts their development.

Hardly. Colonialism in Africa led to dramatic and rapid development, as well as population and economic growth. Pre colonial Africa was almost entirely rural bellow the sahara, consisting of little more than tribal nations and small villages, with the occasional coastal town. Outside influence brought new ideas, cities, proper education systems, industrilisation and politcal development from local kings. We exploited resources that would not have been used otherwise and advanced their civilisation by at least five hundred years.

I agree that it did rapidly accelerate Africa's development, but its wrong to blame the people for Africa's current state. All these new systems were run by colonialists until they all pulled out. Its very difficult for a population to transition from thousands of years of a tribal system to a sophisticated one that they have little to no experience running. Africa's poverty can't be blamed on Africans.

[No Names Left Damn It]

Africa's poverty can't be blamed on Africans.

It can, and quite easily. Although the colonial governments could have done more make sure a stable, working democracy was in place before they left, you cannot blame them for all the shit that has happened in the last 50 odd years.

[Fartsniffage]

Pakistan has never really had it's own democratically elected government. It's not the failure of democracy, it's the failure of the British to ensure a properly working system was stably in place when they left.

And Bangladesh is addressing those issues, just like they addressed the others one before. Progress usually comes in steps, not leaps and bounds.

So you're agreeing with my first point then? That India wasn't ready to rule itself when Britain left?

[Luna Nostra]

Africa's poverty can't be blamed on Africans.

It can, and quite easily. Although the colonial governments could have done more make sure a stable, working democracy was in place before they left, you cannot blame them for all the shit that has happened in the last 50 odd years.

But would all that shit have happened if most of these new African nation states had stable governments?

[Luna Nostra]

Pakistan has never really had it's own democratically elected government. It's not the failure of democracy, it's the failure of the British to ensure a properly working system was stably in place when they left.

And Bangladesh is addressing those issues, just like they addressed the others one before. Progress usually comes in steps, not leaps and bounds.

So you're agreeing with my first point then? That India wasn't ready to rule itself when Britain left?

India ran itself fine. They had a strong central government and a national hero that united a very, very diverse population. Thats why it's an emerging powerhouse.

Pakistan and Bangladesh lacked any kind of head start. That's Pakistan's fault, though. Had the Muslim League decided to make peace with Gandhi and stay with India, it would be a much different story.

[Fartsniffage]

India ran itself fine. They had a strong central government and a national hero that united a very, very diverse population. Thats why it's an emerging powerhouse.

Pakistan and Bangladesh lacked any kind of head start. That's Pakistan's fault, though. Had the Muslim League decided to make peace with Gandhi and stay with India, it would be a much different story.

I give up.

Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of India when that quote was made.

[Belschaft]

But would all that shit have happened if most of these new African nation states had stable governments?

More than you'd think were. They were all left with established infastructures and administrations, which were increasingly run by locals not colonial appointees. Thee problems they face now stem from coruption and incompotence post independence.