Another school shooting: this time from Canada

[Geilinor]

Well, clearly all those wonderful gun laws are working out amazingly for Canada.

It really pisses me off, that people are dying because of the way we treat young men and the lack of proper mental health care, and instead of trying to help people, we've got fucking sophists and demagogues like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama going on about banning guns.

Mass shootings are very infrequent in Canada and nobody said that Canada needs to change its laws.

[United Dixieland Territories]

Well, clearly all those wonderful gun laws are working out amazingly for Canada.

It really pisses me off, that people are dying because of the way we treat young men and the lack of proper mental health care, and instead of trying to help people, we've got fucking sophists and demagogues like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama going on about banning guns. No, no, instead of focusing on this alarming and VERY NEW trend which didn't fucking happen on any kind of regular basis until the last 30 years or so, let's go after the guns, because it's a bandaid solution which is easy to pass, and provides a permanent source of political capital because every time it's proven not to work, you can just claim that we're not being restrictive enough.

Nevermind that these shootings have increased while restrictions on guns have only gotten tighter. In 1959, you could order an AR-15 in the mail, with no background checks or Form 4473 needed. In 1930, you could order a fully automatic Thompson Submachinegun in the mail, or buy one at a hardware store, with no more paperwork than buying a hammer. These mass shootings didn't start happening until the late '60s at the absolute earliest, when it was harder and more restrictive to buy guns in the US than ever before.

All the "Dangerous Stuff" seems to be regulated already due to Class 3 permits & regulation of explosive devices, ect. It really is a mental health problem. Most of the actually criminal shootings seem to be done with illegally acquired firearms, usually stolen; all that less than stellar jazz.

[We Couldnt Agree On A Name]

The only thing more disgusting then these things is how happy people are to use them for political gain.

And how do you know that the shooter at La Loche was mentally ill? You got a source for that claim?

He shot up a school?

[Diopolis]

In b4 "this proves gun control makes no difference".
But in all seriousness, adding the victims to my nightly rosary.

[Big Jim P]

You could stop pushing the false statistics?

I'm not pushing false statistics, an FBI report from 2013 found 160 active shooter incidents from 2000-2013. That's a long fucking way off of daily incidents.

Active shooter =/= mass shooting.

[Greater North American Union]

No, no, instead of focusing on this alarming and VERY NEW trend which didn't fucking happen on any kind of regular basis until the last 30 years or so,

Umm... this is not a new trend. At all.

That's a list of shooting events related to schools. Not Columbine- or Newtown-like events. Most of the pre-1970 events only involved one person, and many of them didn't involve any deaths. But thanks for posting evidence which proves my point that mass killings at schools didn't become a thing until the latter half of the 20th century.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

That or we take off our gloves and fight each other until one of our sweaters is pulled over our heads.

And then we both get a 5 min time out.

And a formal apology too. Or we get drenched in maple syrup.

Sometimes, in Montreal instead of maple syrup they use cold poutine.

List of school shootings in a country gun control is tight

... and list of school shootings in a country where someone on the no fly list can get a gun.

The length of the list speaks for itself.

>comparing Canada to the US, a nation which has multiple times the population, without compensating for said population
>wanting people's rights to be decided by a shadowy executive process controlled by non-elected individuals, for no good reason 90% of the time

The fact that the no fly list exists at all is a disgusting breach of human rights.

Ok how about I compare Europe to the US?

This is Europe and this is US.

[Camicon]

And how do you know that the shooter at La Loche was mentally ill? You got a source for that claim?

He shot up a school?

Which doesn't mean he's mentally ill. Statistically, people suffering from mental illness are less likely to be violent, and more likely to suffer violence, than someone who is not. This varies depending on what kind of mental illness, of course, but dropping a blanket statement that associates people like myself with fucking lunatics that massacre school children is disgusting and offensive.

[Geilinor]

List of school shootings in a country gun control is tight

... and list of school shootings in a country where someone on the no fly list can get a gun.

The length of the list speaks for itself.

>comparing Canada to the US, a nation which has multiple times the population, without compensating for said population
>wanting people's rights to be decided by a shadowy executive process controlled by non-elected individuals, for no good reason 90% of the time

The fact that the no fly list exists at all is a disgusting breach of human rights.

142 mass shootings to three. Adjusting for population, we have over four times as many.

[Big Jim P]

And a formal apology too. Or we get drenched in maple syrup.

Sometimes, in Montreal instead of maple syrup they use cold poutine.

>comparing Canada to the US, a nation which has multiple times the population, without compensating for said population
>wanting people's rights to be decided by a shadowy executive process controlled by non-elected individuals, for no good reason 90% of the time

The fact that the no fly list exists at all is a disgusting breach of human rights.

Ok how about I compare Europe to the US?

This is Europe and this is US.

How about staying on the topic of a CANADIAN shooting tragedy? Not everything is about America.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Umm... this is not a new trend. At all.

That's a list of shooting events related to schools. Not Columbine- or Newtown-like events. Most of the pre-1970 events only involved one person, and many of them didn't involve any deaths. But thanks for posting evidence which proves my point that mass killings at schools didn't become a thing until the latter half of the 20th century.

How about this then?

[Outer Sparta]

And a formal apology too. Or we get drenched in maple syrup.

Sometimes, in Montreal instead of maple syrup they use cold poutine.

>comparing Canada to the US, a nation which has multiple times the population, without compensating for said population
>wanting people's rights to be decided by a shadowy executive process controlled by non-elected individuals, for no good reason 90% of the time

The fact that the no fly list exists at all is a disgusting breach of human rights.

Ok how about I compare Europe to the US?

This is Europe and this is US.

What if that person used a hockey stick with a puck and did 90 mph slapshots instead of shooting people with bullets?

[United Marxist Nations]

Account for the fact that the US has some 300 million of the things. Gun control is not enforceable here, just like it isn't enforceable in, say, Russia.

Hey, you guys got a man to the moon and found a vaccine for polio.

If you can do that then you can put in gun control.

The two issues are not comparable.

[Greater North American Union]

Well, clearly all those wonderful gun laws are working out amazingly for Canada.

It really pisses me off, that people are dying because of the way we treat young men and the lack of proper mental health care, and instead of trying to help people, we've got fucking sophists and demagogues like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama going on about banning guns. No, no, instead of focusing on this alarming and VERY NEW trend which didn't fucking happen on any kind of regular basis until the last 30 years or so, let's go after the guns, because it's a bandaid solution which is easy to pass, and provides a permanent source of political capital because every time it's proven not to work, you can just claim that we're not being restrictive enough.

Nevermind that these shootings have increased while restrictions on guns have only gotten tighter. In 1959, you could order an AR-15 in the mail, with no background checks or Form 4473 needed. In 1930, you could order a fully automatic Thompson Submachinegun in the mail, or buy one at a hardware store, with no more paperwork than buying a hammer. These mass shootings didn't start happening until the late '60s at the absolute earliest, when it was harder and more restrictive to buy guns in the US than ever before.

How many school shootings has Canada had since 2010? Four. How many school shootings has the US had since 2010? More than one hundred. California, a state of comparable size and with gun laws slightly more comparable to Canada, has experienced twelve school shootings since 2010. Adjust to per capita rates, and Canada still experiences far less gun violence than the USA does, by an extremely wide margin.

That sound you hear? That's your argument exploding under the crushing weight of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Gun control works. Get the fuck over it.

You are using statistics which were cherrypicked and falsified by one pasty-faced, mickey mouse-voiced New York billionaire named Micheal Bloomberg, to scare ignorant people into supporting a scheme which has been racist and classist since its inception in the United States, and serves only to re-enforce the power of political and economic elites.

Ok how about I compare Europe to the US?

This is Europe and this is US.

You are comparing apples to oranges here.

Crime (including school shootings) is not fucking black and white. It is an extremely complex sociological problem which has been proven to be driven 1st and foremost by poverty and population density. There are serious legal, economic and social differences between the US and other countries that make comparison impossible.

Let me demonstrate.

2/3s of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. This has lead to people using your logic to claim that guns increase suicides. However, Japan, a nation with some of the strictest gun laws on the planet, has the highest rate of suicide, dwarfing the US.

People kill other people and themselves because of complex societal pressures and issues. It's not as simple as just banning things.

Well, clearly all those wonderful gun laws are working out amazingly for Canada.

It really pisses me off, that people are dying because of the way we treat young men and the lack of proper mental health care, and instead of trying to help people, we've got fucking sophists and demagogues like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama going on about banning guns.

Mass shootings are very infrequent in Canada and nobody said that Canada needs to change its laws.

>nobody said that Canada needs to change its laws

Oh but they will. Neo-Progressives can't resist abusing tragedy to serve their agenda.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Sometimes, in Montreal instead of maple syrup they use cold poutine.



Ok how about I compare Europe to the US?

This is Europe and this is US.

What if that person used a hockey stick with a puck and did 90 mph slapshots instead of shooting people with bullets?

Canadian criminal code says you 10 min penalty and you get maple syrup dumped on you anyway.

[Outer Sparta]

What if that person used a hockey stick with a puck and did 90 mph slapshots instead of shooting people with bullets?

Canadian criminal code says you 10 min penalty and you get maple syrup dumped on you anyway.

And issue a compulsory apology with a formal "I'm sorry."

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Hey, you guys got a man to the moon and found a vaccine for polio.

If you can do that then you can put in gun control.

The two issues are not comparable.

My point is you guys have the power to do anything.

You can put in gun control if you try.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm not pushing false statistics, an FBI report from 2013 found 160 active shooter incidents from 2000-2013. That's a long fucking way off of daily incidents.

I thought we were talking about mass shootings?

We were, though I'll admit I use active shooter and mass shootings interchangeably because I don't really put things like gang shootouts or other such things in the same category. Given these almost always devolve into gun control debates I try to separate things like some batshit guy gunning down kids and GD's and VL's getting into a shootout which is why I'm so against the "daily mass shootings!" thing. Just semantics on my part really, sorry for any confusion.

But back to the topic of Canada, I'm actually kinda shocked they have the suspect in custody. That's certainly a rare outcome for these situations.

[Greater North American Union]

>comparing Canada to the US, a nation which has multiple times the population, without compensating for said population
>wanting people's rights to be decided by a shadowy executive process controlled by non-elected individuals, for no good reason 90% of the time

The fact that the no fly list exists at all is a disgusting breach of human rights.

142 mass shootings to three. Adjusting for population, we have over four times as many.

>142 mass shootings to three

I would assume this is per year? I.e. that you're getting this number from the "355 school shootings since Sandy Hook" thing, which has been proven to be a cherrypicked lie based on extremely broad data cooked up by the Bloomberg Machine which does not match up with FBI statistics at all?

That's a list of shooting events related to schools. Not Columbine- or Newtown-like events. Most of the pre-1970 events only involved one person, and many of them didn't involve any deaths. But thanks for posting evidence which proves my point that mass killings at schools didn't become a thing until the latter half of the 20th century.

How about this then?

Only proves my point further. Prior to 1966, I can only find 3 events which match the FBI definition of a mass shooting.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

How many school shootings has Canada had since 2010? Four. How many school shootings has the US had since 2010? More than one hundred. California, a state of comparable size and with gun laws slightly more comparable to Canada, has experienced twelve school shootings since 2010. Adjust to per capita rates, and Canada still experiences far less gun violence than the USA does, by an extremely wide margin.

That sound you hear? That's your argument exploding under the crushing weight of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Gun control works. Get the fuck over it.

You are using statistics which were cherrypicked and falsified by one pasty-faced, mickey mouse-voiced New York billionaire named Micheal Bloomberg, to scare ignorant people into supporting a scheme which has been racist and classist since its inception in the United States, and serves only to re-enforce the power of political and economic elites.

Canadian criminal code says you 10 min penalty and you get maple syrup dumped on you anyway.

And issue a compulsory apology with a formal "I'm sorry."

If they refuse to apologize then they can't play hockey, eat poutine or listen to rush for the rest of the month.

But this has never happened before.

[Patridam]

Here's the thing:
People report on this because there is nothing else to report. That is why so many shootings were reported on in 2015 in the U.S. It's not because they dramatically increased or crime spiked 3 quadrillion %, but because the media had nothing else to report. And, even though crime is basically the same or going down, people jump to conclusions and say that isolated events like this, which happen all the time, justify expansionary govt.

So basically, you think that more school shooting reports or more police brutality accusations is basically only done because it is a slow news day? Got it.

Well the deadliest incident at a school was a bombing in 1927... and I'm very certain police brutality was much much worse in the past... so I'm going to say that these things aren't a sudden phenomenon, they're just much more fervently reported these days. Ne ws agencies make money by playing off and exacerbating people's fears; the story that the world is just now going to hell in a hand basket will forever keep people tuned in, especially old ones with nostalgia and young ones bitter with the world they're being left.

[Greater North American Union]

You are using statistics which were cherrypicked and falsified by one pasty-faced, mickey mouse-voiced New York billionaire named Micheal Bloomberg, to scare ignorant people into supporting a scheme which has been racist and classist since its inception in the United States, and serves only to re-enforce the power of political and economic elites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opini ... .html?_r=0

Here you go. And if you claim the New York Times has Conservative bias then I'm afraid there's no help for you.

[United Marxist Nations]

The two issues are not comparable.

My point is you guys have the power to do anything.

You can put in gun control if you try.

So, who will volunteer to take away the 400 million guns?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

How about this then?

Only proves my point further. Prior to 1966, I can only find 3 events which match the FBI definition of a mass shooting.

I count 24 from 1840 to 1889.

Plus your example is still 50 years ago.

I can't say that half a century ago was "Recent".

[Camicon]

How many school shootings has Canada had since 2010? Four. How many school shootings has the US had since 2010? More than one hundred. California, a state of comparable size and with gun laws slightly more comparable to Canada, has experienced twelve school shootings since 2010. Adjust to per capita rates, and Canada still experiences far less gun violence than the USA does, by an extremely wide margin.

That sound you hear? That's your argument exploding under the crushing weight of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Gun control works. Get the fuck over it.

You are using statistics which were cherrypicked and falsified by one pasty-faced, mickey mouse-voiced New York billionaire named Micheal Bloomberg, to scare ignorant people into supporting a scheme which has been racist and classist since its inception in the United States, and serves only to re-enforce the power of political and economic elites.
*snip*

It is truly amazing how you know what source I was using, when I didn't even tell you what it is. For the record, the numbers come from Wikipedia, which is a perfectly acceptable source for this considering that each incident is easily verifiable through the linking of news reports. If you want me to go get the exact per capita rates of gun violence in Canada and the US then I can do that, but it's only going to reaffirm my statement.