Child bride dies due to sexual trauma

[Farnhamia]

Disagreed.
SADLY it's human. Way too much human. Way too much widespread among muslims.

It's high time to whack some sense into the heads of A LOT of muslims.

FYP

*** Warned for malicious post-editing. ***

[Messeren]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs.

Effectively what happened was stupid because a female isn't biologically able to reproduce without difficulties until the age of 14 or 15, so 8 years old isn't just misguided it's downright fucking moronic. That said, several of you have called the Yemeni ideals 'barbaric', as if you somehow have the right to judge what is right and wrong in the world. There are no civilised or barbaric people, only different cultures. The Yemeni culture, and many cultures around there have a patriarchal society, and yours do not. Why does that make yours right? Why does that make yours better? Yes, 8 years old is too young. Biologically. Morally I don't give a crap.

USA has 18, Britain has 16, Spain and Japan have 13. Tell me who has the authority to sit down and decide which age is right for everyone? And the UN? Who has the authority to legitimise such an organisation? Why should any sovereign nation have to abide by it? You may not agree with what goes on elsewhere in the world, and they don't agree with your way of thinking either. You cannot change a culture. It's been tried, many times before, each attempt has produced results far worse than the supposed problem.

I almost forget my point really, just addressing a lot of one-sided single minded idiocy in this thread. Just because there is a death involved doesn't make you right. I will concede that 8 years old is too young, but on a biological level, not a moral or ethic one. I do not concede that any external force has the authority nor reason to act upon this considering it does not effect anyone else. Different cultures permit different things, yet most of the West have this near insane idea that just because your culture gives you more freedoms, that culture must somehow be forced upon the rest of the world, which would effectively make you hypocrites by forcing an ideology on a people who are unfamiliar to it. Politics would get in the way and you wouldn't be liberating a people, just effectively enslaving them to a new puppet regime.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Doesn't strike me as particularly shocking or disgusting. Maybe reinforces my opinions about people from that region and their ways, but not much more than that.

[Risottia]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs.

Effectively what happened was stupid because a female isn't biologically able to reproduce without difficulties until the age of 14 or 15, so 8 years old isn't just misguided it's downright fucking moronic.

So according to your reasoning raping a 14-year-old female wouldn't be stupid because she's biologically able to reproduce.
Are you sure that's what you want to say?

That said, several of you have called the Yemeni ideals 'barbaric', as if you somehow have the right to judge what is right and wrong in the world.

As an ethical being, I can tell what is right from what is wrong. As a social and political being, I have the duty to make my opinion known and debated.

There are no civilised or barbaric people, only different cultures.

There are different cultures. Some are civilised, some are not. The difference is between living in cities and not living in cities - that's what civilisation means.

The Yemeni culture, and many cultures around there have a patriarchal society, and yours do not. Why does that make yours right? Why does that make yours better? Yes, 8 years old is too young. Biologically. Morally I don't give a crap.

Which means that I don't have to give a crap about your moral judgment.

USA has 18, Britain has 16, Spain and Japan have 13. Tell me who has the authority to sit down and decide which age is right for everyone?

The governments, which are representative of the people, do.

And the UN? Who has the authority to legitimise such an organisation?

See above.

Why should any sovereign nation have to abide by it?

The Yemeni government, which represents the sovereign nation of Yemen, signed the Convention on the Rights of Children. It's their word.

You may not agree with what goes on elsewhere in the world, and they don't agree with your way of thinking either. You cannot change a culture.

Yeah, the culture of Europe is exactly the same it was 200 years ago. Or 2000.

It's been tried, many times before, each attempt has produced results far worse than the supposed problem.

That is, you are saying that, let's say, abolishing the culture of slavery in the US has produced results far worse than the "supposed" problems created by it.

I almost forget my point really

Don't worry, you have made your point about "I wanna do whatever I fucking wanna do and no one's got the right to tell me I can't rape a 8-year-old because different culture and rights and treatises don't matter anyway" quite clearly.

[New confederate ramenia]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs.

Effectively what happened was stupid because a female isn't biologically able to reproduce without difficulties until the age of 14 or 15, so 8 years old isn't just misguided it's downright fucking moronic. That said, several of you have called the Yemeni ideals 'barbaric', as if you somehow have the right to judge what is right and wrong in the world. There are no civilised or barbaric people, only different cultures. The Yemeni culture, and many cultures around there have a patriarchal society, and yours do not. Why does that make yours right? Why does that make yours better? Yes, 8 years old is too young. Biologically. Morally I don't give a crap.

USA has 18, Britain has 16, Spain and Japan have 13. Tell me who has the authority to sit down and decide which age is right for everyone? And the UN? Who has the authority to legitimise such an organisation? Why should any sovereign nation have to abide by it? You may not agree with what goes on elsewhere in the world, and they don't agree with your way of thinking either. You cannot change a culture. It's been tried, many times before, each attempt has produced results far worse than the supposed problem.

I almost forget my point really, just addressing a lot of one-sided single minded idiocy in this thread. Just because there is a death involved doesn't make you right. I will concede that 8 years old is too young, but on a biological level, not a moral or ethic one. I do not concede that any external force has the authority nor reason to act upon this considering it does not effect anyone else. Different cultures permit different things, yet most of the West have this near insane idea that just because your culture gives you more freedoms, that culture must somehow be forced upon the rest of the world, which would effectively make you hypocrites by forcing an ideology on a people who are unfamiliar to it. Politics would get in the way and you wouldn't be liberating a people, just effectively enslaving them to a new puppet regime.

From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable.

[Second Blazing]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs.

Effectively what happened was stupid because a female isn't biologically able to reproduce without difficulties until the age of 14 or 15, so 8 years old isn't just misguided it's downright fucking moronic. That said, several of you have called the Yemeni ideals 'barbaric', as if you somehow have the right to judge what is right and wrong in the world. There are no civilised or barbaric people, only different cultures. The Yemeni culture, and many cultures around there have a patriarchal society, and yours do not. Why does that make yours right? Why does that make yours better? Yes, 8 years old is too young. Biologically. Morally I don't give a crap.

USA has 18, Britain has 16, Spain and Japan have 13. Tell me who has the authority to sit down and decide which age is right for everyone? And the UN? Who has the authority to legitimise such an organisation? Why should any sovereign nation have to abide by it? You may not agree with what goes on elsewhere in the world, and they don't agree with your way of thinking either. You cannot change a culture. It's been tried, many times before, each attempt has produced results far worse than the supposed problem.

I almost forget my point really, just addressing a lot of one-sided single minded idiocy in this thread. Just because there is a death involved doesn't make you right. I will concede that 8 years old is too young, but on a biological level, not a moral or ethic one. I do not concede that any external force has the authority nor reason to act upon this considering it does not effect anyone else. Different cultures permit different things, yet most of the West have this near insane idea that just because your culture gives you more freedoms, that culture must somehow be forced upon the rest of the world, which would effectively make you hypocrites by forcing an ideology on a people who are unfamiliar to it. Politics would get in the way and you wouldn't be liberating a people, just effectively enslaving them to a new puppet regime.

Any society that allows an 8 year old girl to be married to a 40 year old man so he can rape her to death is barbaric, but hey maybe I'm just racist.

[Risottia]

Any society that allows an 8 year old girl to be married to a 40 year old man so he can rape her to death is barbaric, but hey maybe I'm just racist.

I have known barbarians who would have been insulted by anyone who told they they shagged 8-year-olds.

[Hjallaland]

http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/yemen-child-marriage-human-rights-519066#.VptsKDMY0po.facebook

An eight year-old child bride died in Yemen on her wedding night after suffering internal injuries due to sexual trauma. Human rights organizations are calling for the arrest of her husband, who was five times her age.

Al Nahar, Lebanon, reported that the death occurred in the tribal area of Hardh in northwestern Yemen, which borders Saudi Arabia. This brings even more attention to the already existing issue of forced child marriages in the Middle East.

"According to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls will become child brides. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before the age of 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15."

It is reported that over a quarter of Yemen's young girls are married before the age of 15. Not only do they lose access to health and education, these child brides are commonly subjected to physical, emotional and sexual violence in their forced marriages.

One of the main issues is that there is currently no consistent established definition of a "child" that has been agreed upon worldwide. This leaves various interpretations within countries and little protection for those who are affected.

Establishing this age limit is among the top priorities of groups like HRC which was responsible for publishing the 54-page report “How Come You Allow Little Girls to Get Married?”, documenting the lifelong damage to girls who are forced to marry at young ages. Most pro age-limit organizations agree that 18 should be the legal age for marriage.

In February 2009, a law was created in Yemen that set the minimum age for marriage at 17. Unfortunately, it was repealed after more conservative lawmakers called it un-Islamic.

Personally, I find this disgusting. I'm involved with an organization fighting child prostitution in Cambodia, but child MARRIAGE? This is beyond foul. The UN should make an international standard for being legally an adult IMO. What says NSG?

Well its not uncommon and highly depends on what one considers a proper age to marry. In Yemen there used to be a legal age requirment of 15 years though the "tribal costum" excuse often prevailed in court. The legal age requirment has been abolished now so currently everyone can marry a child in Yemen.

To be honest, if Yemen itself wasn't even able to obay its own laws, how can the UN make any difference?
I personally don't see any solution that works and i'm afraid only time can change such things.

[Saiwania]

This is outrageous, but that is what you get I suppose if the prophet that they look up to so much is said to have consummated with a 9 year old. The husband can't possibly have been gentle with her.

[Ndaku]

Disgraceful. Some people need to learn how to pick on someone their own size.

[Zakuvia]

Degenerate and a case-in-point for why religion should never be the basis for a code of law.

[Iohann]

Degenerate and a case-in-point for why religion should never be the basis for a code of law.

Not really. It's a case for why societal norms and customs need to change over time. Saying it's entirely due to religion is disingenuous.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You know what's more fucked up, is there's worst cases then this

[Internationalist Bastard]

Degenerate and a case-in-point for why religion should never be the basis for a code of law.

Well, yes, but this has always really been the case in the Middle East. If religion wasn't used to back up the lawthey'd probably use tradition as an excuse

[Zakuvia]

Degenerate and a case-in-point for why religion should never be the basis for a code of law.

Well, yes, but this has always really been the case in the Middle East. If religion wasn't used to back up the lawthey'd probably use tradition as an excuse

I'd agree with that presumption, but a monstrous local tradition can't be held up as holy and defended by 1 billion people.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Well, yes, but this has always really been the case in the Middle East. If religion wasn't used to back up the lawthey'd probably use tradition as an excuse

I'd agree with that presumption, but a monstrous local tradition can't be held up as holy and defended by 1 billion people.

Assuming all Muslims mindlessly agree with the Koran, which they don't

[Jochistan]

This is outrageous, but that is what you get I suppose if the prophet that they look up to so much is said to have consummated with a 9 year old.

Yeah, but he didn't. Not according to History and Islamic Doctrine anyway.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1 ... prover.htm
http://hameem.org/index.php/multimedia/ ... e-upon-him
http://www.hasaan.com/2012/04/hazrat-ai ... -time.html
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/fe ... _old_aisha
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/haz ... eI2oO.html
http://turntoislam.com/community/threads/2585/?t=2585
https://trimurl.im/d24/aisha-was-around ... t-muhammad
http://nogodbutallah.org/aishas-marriage-9-or-19/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkCafvuB-Vo
http://www.discoveringislam.org/aisha_age.htm
https://sites.google.com/site/islamnmus ... alysed/age

[Zakuvia]

I'd agree with that presumption, but a monstrous local tradition can't be held up as holy and defended by 1 billion people.

Assuming all Muslims mindlessly agree with the Koran, which they don't

Again, true, but to deny that it's upheld within the tenets of the faith is being dishonest. And so long as the faith itself is codified as law, this will continue.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Assuming all Muslims mindlessly agree with the Koran, which they don't

Again, true, but to deny that it's upheld within the tenets of the faith is being dishonest. And so long as the faith itself is codified as law, this will continue.

Yes, theocracy is bad. But it's not the only source of injustice

[Zakuvia]

Again, true, but to deny that it's upheld within the tenets of the faith is being dishonest. And so long as the faith itself is codified as law, this will continue.

Yes, theocracy is bad. But it's not the only source of injustice

It's amazing how much we agree on things, actually. Because yet again, this is true. But if an obvious source of injustice can be changed or removed from a society, then it must be done.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yes, theocracy is bad. But it's not the only source of injustice

It's amazing how much we agree on things, actually. Because yet again, this is true. But if an obvious source of injustice can be changed or removed from a society, then it must be done.

I agree. Just don't be surprised when they find a new excuse

[Hjallaland]

Assuming all Muslims mindlessly agree with the Koran, which they don't

Again, true, but to deny that it's upheld within the tenets of the faith is being dishonest. And so long as the faith itself is codified as law, this will continue.

How so? The reason why Yemen abandoned on its 15 year requirment for marriage wasn't a religious one, it was a tribal/cultural one as the court always ruled in favour of tribal culture when it became "law VS tribal culture"
If it would be religious we would see it being tied to just one religion, instead we see child marriages all over the world concerning people from pretty much all religions.

[Jochistan]

I'd agree with that presumption, but a monstrous local tradition can't be held up as holy and defended by 1 billion people.

Assuming all Muslims mindlessly agree with the Koran, which they don't

This particular incident has nothing to do with the Qur'an but a few contradictory Hadith.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs....

I was wondering when one of these would show up.

From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable.

Therefore the only way to end these kinds of things we consider atrocities is with force. Be it intellectual, cultural or hell physical/military force, whichever gets the job done.

Of course, just like Messeren, Western societies as a whole no longer really have the will to use any kind of force to correct these behaviors; can't be looking like imperialists with ulterior motives after all. The Chinese and Russians don't give two shits, and as others have stated the Indians and other Arab countries have similar things going on. And for those hoping for someone in the inside to do this work of changing their society, watching a rock erode from the winds is faster than waiting for some Yemeni reformer to shake up the system and succeed... so get used to a couple more decades if not centuries of child marriages and other fun offensive things.

[Ostroeuropa]

Hm, most of you are as biased to your own ways of thinking as they are to theirs.

Effectively what happened was stupid because a female isn't biologically able to reproduce without difficulties until the age of 14 or 15, so 8 years old isn't just misguided it's downright fucking moronic. That said, several of you have called the Yemeni ideals 'barbaric', as if you somehow have the right to judge what is right and wrong in the world.

We do.

There are no civilised or barbaric people, only different cultures.

Found the post-modernist. No, sorry, i'm not a cultural relativist. Some cultures are inferior.

The Yemeni culture, and many cultures around there have a patriarchal society, and yours do not. Why does that make yours right? Why does that make yours better? Yes, 8 years old is too young. Biologically. Morally I don't give a crap.

Popular consensus and legal tradition.

USA has 18, Britain has 16, Spain and Japan have 13. Tell me who has the authority to sit down and decide which age is right for everyone? And the UN? Who has the authority to legitimise such an organisation? Why should any sovereign nation have to abide by it? You may not agree with what goes on elsewhere in the world, and they don't agree with your way of thinking either.

A legitimately good point. Any arbitrarily picked number is going to mean imposing bullshit on people for no real reason or rationale. It would be simpler to pick a looser definition of when someone is capable of consent.

I almost forget my point really, just addressing a lot of one-sided single minded idiocy in this thread. Just because there is a death involved doesn't make you right. I will concede that 8 years old is too young, but on a biological level, not a moral or ethic one. I do not concede that any external force has the authority nor reason to act upon this considering it does not effect anyone else.

Do you think the child understood the gravity of the actions, and that the sex was agreed to throughout?

Different cultures permit different things, yet most of the West have this near insane idea that just because your culture gives you more freedoms, that culture must somehow be forced upon the rest of the world, which would effectively make you hypocrites by forcing an ideology on a people who are unfamiliar to it.

But it's our historical tradition to get up in everybody elses business, and who are you to say that's wrong? Sounds hypocritical to me.

Politics would get in the way and you wouldn't be liberating a people, just effectively enslaving them to a new puppet regime.

Freedom = Slavery.