Child bride dies due to sexual trauma

[Hjallaland]

It was a good thing, but Europe was just terrible at it.

At most it was mixed given the end goal was clearly to benefit the homelands more than the colonies. Eventually the economic imbalance would have made things even worse had it continued.

Not to forget about the major issues the colonies had to deal with/are still dealing with concerning tribal matters, which caused more than enough civil wars already.

Nope, its because of the local culture & tradition.

which are religious in nature

Not really though it very much depends on the country you're pointing at i suppose.

[The Archregimancy]

At most it was mixed given the end goal was clearly to benefit the homelands more than the colonies. Eventually the economic imbalance would have made things even worse had it continued.

Not to forget about the major issues the colonies had to deal with/are still dealing with concerning tribal matters, which caused more than enough civil wars already

Again, North Yemen was never a European colony; see here for more detail.

[Lydenburg]

Indeed, Yemen is traditionally considered something of a cultural outsider on the Arabian Peninsula.

I have noticed this. I have also been told that people from Yemen seem to have more in common with Djibouti and the Horn of Africa than the Arabian peninsula. In some archaeological circles I understand it's been suggested that the southwestern Arabia and East Africa were once linked by a common empire.

Arch would you be able to shed any light on this?

[Hjallaland]

Not to forget about the major issues the colonies had to deal with/are still dealing with concerning tribal matters, which caused more than enough civil wars already

Again, North Yemen was never a European colony; see here for more detail.

Ah true, i was more talking about colonization in general, but that's i suppose something for another topic at another day.

I also don't believe its really related to the matter of colonies. I think its just a tribal tradition, one which members don't like to give up (just like we wouldn't want to give up on parts of our traditions).

[The TransPecos]

Degenerate and a case-in-point for why religion should never be the basis for a code of law.

Not really. It's a case for why societal norms and customs need to change over time. Saying it's entirely due to religion is disingenuous.

It's not disingenuous, the 'religion' of the area has promoted this and other equally bad practices since it was founded. That 'religion' is without a moral base and allows, and still requires, its adherents to consider and treat what it calls infidels as slaves or worse. Do you have any examples of societies or cultures which let a child marriage be consummated before the woman is biologically ready? Do you have any examples of societies and religions that consider the recent behaviors of large groups of muslim men in Germany and elsewhere as acceptable? How long must the world wait for that 'religion' to change its norms and customs?

[The Archregimancy]

Indeed, Yemen is traditionally considered something of a cultural outsider on the Arabian Peninsula.

I have noticed this. I have also been told that people from Yemen seem to have more in common with Djibouti and the Horn of Africa than the Arabian peninsula. In some archaeological circles I understand it's been suggested that the southwestern Arabia and East Africa were once linked by a common empire.

Arch would you be able to shed any light on this?

I don't know about 'common empire', but there was incontrovertibly extensive contact across the Mandeb Strait separating Yemen from Africa. These contacts have had a profound impact on global history.

The Himyarite and Sabaean pre-Islamic states in what's now Yemen were the most advanced cultures in the Arabian Peninsula for much of the period prior to the rise of Islam. The Himyarites lasted until the 6th century AD, and were a powerful and culturally advanced Jewish state that was regularly in conflict with the Christian Aksumite civilisation of what's now northern Ethiopia.

Two things undermined the stability of 'Yemen' just before the rise of Islam; this collapse of the main monotheistic organised polity in Arabia just before the rise of Islam almost certainly facilitated the rise of the latter (whether you see this as historical accident or Allah's will is no doubt a matter of taste).

1) The ongoing conflict between the Jewish Himyarites and Christian Aksumites reached its climax in 525 AD, with the Aksumites temporarily taking control of 'Yemen' after deposing the last Himyarite monarch (this could be your 'common empire'). The Aksumites were then chased out by the Sassanids some 50 years later; so this is a period of chronic political instability following the collapse of a long-lasting stable state.

2) The ancient Marib Dam collapsed around 570 AD, the year of Muhammed's birth. This undermined the entire agricultural system of 'Yemen', led to difficult to quantify but clearly large-scale migrations from the region, and finalised the collapse of the political organisation of what had previously been the most sophisticated culture on the Peninsula; and one that was monotheistic to boot.

Attention is often, rightly, paid to the impact of the long war between the Byzantines and Persians on both of the latter in the period immediately prior to the rise of Islam. However, comparatively few people appreciate that the collapse of both the Yemeni state and the Marib Dam (the latter is even mentioned in the Koran; see Surah 34:15-16) - both to some degree the result of those cross-strait contacts - almost certainly had just as much of an impact on facilitating Islam's rise by weakening the existing political structures that potentially might have constrained that rise. In the case of the collapse of 'Yemen' it stopped the nascent Islamic state from fighting a powerful state much closer to home, or from fighting a war on two fronts against both the Yemenis and Islam's exhausted northern neighbours.

Edit:
Also note that the surviving South Arabian languages are more closely related to Ethiopian languages than they are to modern Arabic, further emphasising the long-standing nature of cultural contacts across the straits in the pre-Islamic period.

[The Rich Port]

What a fucking garbage country.

Sad to say, but some people are just conditioned to such barbarism.

Our ancestors were probably guilty of the same thing.

And that's why, while I respect my ancestors' good decisions, I take issue with their extremely poor decisions... As opposed to blindly adopt everything they did and fear change like it's rusty metal and my immune system has never heard of tetanus.

[Greed and Death]

Find those responsible.


Bring them before me

I will pronounce them guilty

and then you may execute them.

[Valystria]

Then they should stop being religious...

As I've said, if someone disagrees with their religion's holy book, or their religion's founding prophet, they really should cease being religious.

If someone disagrees with their political ideology of choice, why would they continue being an adherent of it. Such inconsistency.

The problem with that statement is that (I assume) you mean a literal interpretation of the Text. Which would not be permissible
And the life of the Religions Founding Prophet has a few different conflicting traditions itself.

Great, so we can discard it as the contradictory nonsense it is.

"It requires significant mental resources and time to rationalize their rejection of it as somehow still being what the prophet intended, or rationalize their way through all the numerous absurdities and inconsistencies common to religious narratives."

Is Valystria your Puppet or something, cause I wasn't talking to you.

This has been addressed repeatedly in various other threads. The puppetry accusations were mildly amusing at first, but now it's merely irritating.

What I'd recommend for Yemen is piece meal legislation that would raise the age of consent gradually. It'd be a bit harder to argue that it is non-Islamic if the minimum age is raised from 8 to 9, then 10 to 12. 13 or 14 is when I expect the most stiff opposition, but with any luck, the final age of consent will wind up being set just below 15 to go up to 16 or higher. I think the oldest the Yemenis will go for is 14 if their previous law which was 15 was undone by religious fanaticism.

It doesn't matter what they want. Religion is no excuse to trample the rights of minors. A decent and secular legal framework ought to be forcefully imposed onto Yemen.

We could say their religion is the problem. It is after all, their religion that considers females to be property.

And you're not wrong. It's just considered socially unacceptable by many to attack religious practices that do not coincide with modern definitions of civilization, ie forcibly raping small children, executing homosexuals or declaring social groups to be "unclean". Until this is no longer the case, progress cannot be made.

Then it's important we ignore their feelings and continue to criticize them and the morally reprehensible religions they defend.

It's tied to those religions, same as how Yemen's child brides are tied to Yemen's religion.

And how dare you speak for Yemen on it's reasons for why they abandoned their age requirement for marriage. Yemen's lawmakers have asserted this is a religious issue. Don't speak for them.

How about doing some actuall research? Yemen had an age limit set on 15, yet it was abandoned becouse of the "tribal costums" excuse that turned out victorious in pretty much all court cases.

It it had truely something to do with religion then you would see the same, or at least a simular result in other Muslim nations, which is not the case. Far from it in fact as seen by the age limits in several other Islamic nations:
Afghanistan: 18 male - 16 female
Bangladesh: 21 male - 18 female
Iran: 18 male - 15 female
Iraq: 15 if certain criteria are met, otherwise 18
Jordan: 18
Kazakhstan: 16
Kuwait: 17 male - 15 female
Oman: 18
Pakistan: 18 male - 16 female
Syria: 18

The fact that the laws are often ignored and that the government isn't stepping in isn't an excuse to blame religion for all of that.
As said, it happens in alot of places with alot of different religions. See for example Equatiorial Guinea, a Christian state where the legal age to marry is 12 years. Palau, another Christain state, doesn't even have a legal age, just like Yemen.

Oh, and before i forget, according to the Islam itself puberty is the requirement for consent. I'm pretty sure the averange 9 year old hasn't hit puberty yet.

See this map aswell for some data on child marriages: http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/where-does-it-happen/

Somehow you've overlooked that the vast majority of those countries are ignoring their own religion's standard on consent. How un-Islamic of them.

It does truly have everything to do with religion when it's a religion with a traditional history of child brides... Except when the religion's adherents outright ignore their religion's standard on age of consent.

Well...

It really all goes back to religion.



You have to ask... WHY are the laws often ignored... WHY isn't the government stepping in?

Its because of the local religion.

Nope, its because of the local culture & tradition.

Their local Islamic culture & tradition. Religion in this instance doesn't magically exist separately from their culture.

Presumably, you have the convenience of being a Westerner and having been raised in a society where religion is not imposed upon you. Yemenis do not have that luxury. Religion is their culture.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm laughing at this ridiculous notion people keep pushing that, somehow, in fucking middle eastern countries, people aren't following their religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Yemen

: The Constitution of Republic Of Yemen, amended in 2001, does not explicitly address LGBT rights. It does guarantee certain human rights to all citizens, with the condition that all legislation must be compatible with principles of Islamic Shariah law

They don't have a choice.
Yes, this is the religion. It isn't the culture.
It's the religion.

You may as well waffle on about how westboro baptist church hates gays because of their culture.

[New confederate ramenia]

I'm laughing at this ridiculous notion people keep pushing that, somehow, in fucking middle eastern countries, people aren't following their religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Yemen

: The Constitution of Republic Of Yemen, amended in 2001, does not explicitly address LGBT rights. It does guarantee certain human rights to all citizens, with the condition that all legislation must be compatible with principles of Islamic Shariah law

They don't have a choice.
Yes, this is the religion. It isn't the culture.
It's the religion.

You may as well waffle on about how westboro baptist church hates gays because of their culture.

Where does the Quran say "Fucking 8 year olds to death is OK"?

[The Rich Port]

I'm laughing at this ridiculous notion people keep pushing that, somehow, in fucking middle eastern countries, people aren't following their religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Yemen


They don't have a choice.
Yes, this is the religion. It isn't the culture.
It's the religion.

You may as well waffle on about how westboro baptist church hates gays because of their culture.

Where does the Quran say "Fucking 8 year olds to death is OK"?

To be fair... The Qur'an is so vague, you can make it say whatever the fuck you want...

Something religious people think is a GOOD thing for some reason.

[Saiwania]

It doesn't matter what they want. Religion is no excuse to trample the rights of minors. A decent and secular legal framework ought to be forcefully imposed onto Yemen.

I'm working off the assumption that this isn't possible realistically speaking. In which case, Yemen's age limit can be gradually raised as much as is feasible. If the girl was older, there would have been less risk of her dying from sexual intercourse that was too rough. If child marriage can't be prevented there, I think a way to work around this could be to mandate that sex with girls below a certain age be as gentle as possible and to prosecute men who cause fatal or debilitating injury to them as a result of sex.

I don't see a way to enforce a law where child brides can be married but can't be consummated until they're a certain age. It would be much easier to enforce an outright ban on the practice of marrying children, or to raise the age of consent.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

It doesn't matter what they want. Religion is no excuse to trample the rights of minors. A decent and secular legal framework ought to be forcefully imposed onto Yemen.

I'm working off the assumption that this isn't possible realistically speaking. In which case, Yemen's age limit can be gradually raised as much as is feasible. If the girl was older, there would have been less risk of her dying from sexual intercourse that was too rough. If child marriage can't be prevented there, I think a way to work around this could be to mandate that sex with girls below a certain age be as gentle as possible and to prosecute men who cause fatal or debilitating injury to them as a result of sex.

I don't see a way to enforce a law where child brides can be married but can't be consummated until they're a certain age. It would be much easier to enforce an outright ban on the practice of marrying children, or to raise the age of consent.

Or make it legal to marry them, but not to pork them. Excuse the haram pun.

[The TransPecos]

I'm laughing at this ridiculous notion people keep pushing that, somehow, in fucking middle eastern countries, people aren't following their religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Yemen


They don't have a choice.
Yes, this is the religion. It isn't the culture.
It's the religion.

You may as well waffle on about how westboro baptist church hates gays because of their culture.

Where does the Quran say "Fucking 8 year olds to death is OK"?

Not explicitly, but it certainly sets that tone, for example Qur'an 65:4. That document very clearly states that women are not equal to men, for example Qur'an 2:282. Rape is virtually impossible to prove, Qur'an 24:13. And so it goes. Senior leaders of that 'religion' do nothing to prevent or stop it and some of their statements encourage it. However you cut it women are at best property in the view of that 'religion'.