Why aren't you a Pan-Leftist?

[Pandeeria]

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

The point is, people hate communism in REAL life, it NEVER works. Deal with it.

I think you should deal with the fact that none of those countries were ever Communist. You can let your Cold War propaganda make you as salty and triggered as you want, but the fact of the matter is none of those countries were ever Communist.

[New Reagan-land]

The funny thing about capitalism is that it kinda won the cold war, and still operates to this day

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

Then compare the standard of living to capitalist countries and communist countries in the cold war, before capitalism won

[Conscentia]

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

The point is, people hate communism in REAL life, it NEVER works. Deal with it. Look at China (Mao period, now they have private corporations and stuff), Cuba, and past shitty countries. Then you'll say, "muh embargo", "thats not muh real commie", "real commienism was never tried 0out" Oh it has, and it was terrible for the people, the nations around it, and the world.

The Marxist-Leninist and Maoist nations you're talking about never even claimed to have established a communist society.

[Novus America]

A Pan-Leftist is someone who believes that anti-capitalists, including Anarchists, Marxists, and so on, should coordinate and cooperate for the furtherance of revolutionary struggle rather than bicker between themselves in theoretical debate.

To an extent I'd consider myself pan-leftist because I oppose capitalism and dislike the way so much of leftism is just wealthy intellectuals talking about theory and hypotheticals. But I'm worried this could become "You disagree with me! You are destroying the leftist unity, counter-revolutionary revisionist!"

That is what does happen...

[Benomia 3]

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

It does show Marx was totally wrong when he said the late 1800s was the height of capitalism.
What if the whole socialism is right, but capitalism still has a thousand years to go before the transition can be done?

From a purely political standpoint, he wasn't wrong. The mid to late 1800s marked the only time in recent history that industrialized capitalism was allowed to exist in an essentially unregulated state.

And it sucked for pretty much everybody not in the 0.5%.

[New Reagan-land]

The point is, people hate communism in REAL life, it NEVER works. Deal with it.

I think you should deal with the fact that none of those countries were ever Communist. You can let your Cold War propaganda make you as salty and triggered as you want, but the fact of the matter is none of those countries were ever Communist.

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

[Benomia 3]

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

Then compare the standard of living to capitalist countries and communist countries in the cold war, before capitalism won

That'll be somewhat difficult, considering there were not communist countries in the cold war.

You could make the claim that Makhnovia was a communist polity, but that wasn't in the cold war, and didn't last long enough to draw any serious conclusions from.

[Len Hyet]

Well for one I don't know what a pan-leftist is.

A Pan-Leftist is someone who believes that anti-capitalists, including Anarchists, Marxists, and so on, should coordinate and cooperate for the furtherance of revolutionary struggle rather than bicker between themselves in theoretical debate.

So... essentially... because these widely diverse (ideologically speaking) groups all have one thing in common, they should set aside the rest of their differences and work together to achieve that one specific goal?

[Pandeeria]

What does it matter if it won the Cold War? Plenty of shitty countries have won wars, plenty of evil ideologies have won civil wars, that doesn't mean they should be embraced just because they managed to defeat opposition.

Then compare the standard of living to capitalist countries and communist countries in the cold war, before capitalism won

They weren't Communist. They were awful totalitarian states. It doesn't matter what economic system you have in place, authoritarianism leads to a decline in living standards.

[Aramnia]

Firstly, not everyone is going to own a small business,

That's why it's a hypothetical situation....

If EVERYONE had the SAME career what country wouldn't collapse from that?

Yes, but that's kind of irrelevant to the point I was making.

there is never a shortage of young adults who need some money at a simple job to start with, and elderly who need a simply job with simply pay, and if there was, specialists would be highered from abroad to do it, and if that didn't work then robotics and one man crews would rule business.

Machines will eventually be able to replace virtually all working-class jobs. What happens then?

Secondly, communism provides no incentive to do anything in life, and if people can just do what they want and receive what they need to survive, who is supplying those basic needs?

Allocation of resources. You really believe there won't be anyone who'll farm or do anything at all with food production? I guess all those people who do social work and work primarily for the interests of the community will magically cease to exist.

Workers of course. But wait, I thought you could do what you want in communism? apparently not. After we all relize this in the perfect "communist society" the workers supplying the people who "are their own masters" -which defies the collectivist ideas of Marx- need to have incentive to work. With this, money comes in...

You work doing whatever you're passionate about. Not only that, but of course people are going to work to generate their own basic needs, if it comes down to it (and it won't because of what I stated above). You keep talking about collectivism, and you thought that the USSR was a genuine example of Communism. Maybe you actually need to read about the subject before you start throwing around terms. I'm not trying to be offensive, but you seem to have no real concept of Communism.

[Calimera II]

I think you should deal with the fact that none of those countries were ever Communist. You can let your Cold War propaganda make you as salty and triggered as you want, but the fact of the matter is none of those countries were ever Communist.

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

Hereby, I am a reaganist. ''HITL3r izz bettah than obama. Vot3 TRUMP cuz aint nobody got time for the Rubio shit.''

You get it? Self proclaimed communist doesn't mean anything.

[Conscentia]

I think you should deal with the fact that none of those countries were ever Communist. You can let your Cold War propaganda make you as salty and triggered as you want, but the fact of the matter is none of those countries were ever Communist.

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

Communism is a diverse movement. Not all communists are Marxist-Leninists or Maoists. In-fact, Marxist-Leninist and Maoist regimes targeted those other communists are dissenters as much as they did any non-communist dissenter.

[The Predator Federation]

I'm satisfied with my economic system, thanks.

[New confederate ramenia]

The point is, people hate communism in REAL life, it NEVER works. Deal with it. Look at China (Mao period, now they have private corporations and stuff), Cuba, and past shitty countries. Then you'll say, "muh embargo", "thats not muh real commie", "real commienism was never tried 0out" Oh it has, and it was terrible for the people, the nations around it, and the world.

The Marxist-Leninist and Maoist nations you're talking about never even claimed to have established a communist society.

Lots of people, both leftists and rightists, confuse the ideology of communism with the hypothetical utopian society of communism. The ideology wants to create the utopia. There were plenty of nations that followed the ideology of communism, but there has never been an actual communist utopia.

[Novus America]

It does show Marx was totally wrong when he said the late 1800s was the height of capitalism.
What if the whole socialism is right, but capitalism still has a thousand years to go before the transition can be done?

From a purely political standpoint, he wasn't wrong. The mid to late 1800s marked the only time in recent history that industrialized capitalism was allowed to exist in an essentially unregulated state.

And it sucked for pretty much everybody not in the 0.5%.

Except he was totally wrong it was ready to transition to socialism. And that did not see the rise of mixed market systems. He was right the economic system of the late 1800s was unjust. But cleary wrong about what would happen.

[Pandeeria]

I think you should deal with the fact that none of those countries were ever Communist. You can let your Cold War propaganda make you as salty and triggered as you want, but the fact of the matter is none of those countries were ever Communist.

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

It's a little hard saying Communism has failed because it was attempted. many people like Mao were power hungry dip shits that hid under the guise of Communism to gain legitimacy and power.

[New Reagan-land]

When are we going to admit that communism is just every liberals wet dream that's never going to come true?

Anyways, enlighten yourselves: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rea ... FORM=VIRE1


this our countries top rated Saturday morning cartoon

[New Reagan-land]

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

It's a little hard saying Communism has failed because it was attempted. many people like Mao were power hungry dip shits that hid under the guise of Communism to gain legitimacy and power.

Then we can come to the conclusion "power hungry dip shit{s}" always ruin it. Case closed, either way capitalism wins

[Pandeeria]

The Marxist-Leninist and Maoist nations you're talking about never even claimed to have established a communist society.

Lots of people, both leftists and rightists, confuse the ideology of communism with the hypothetical utopian society of communism. The ideology wants to create the utopia. There were plenty of nations that followed the ideology of communism, but there has never been an actual communist utopia.

They followed the ideology of Communism, but they themselves were never Communist.

[Novus America]

They were self proclaimed communist, that was the goal. The point is, they failed. If would would like to replace "communism" with "countries trying to be communist" or "countries trying to be socialist" or which ever, point, being, it failed horribly.

Communism is a diverse movement. Not all communists are Marxist-Leninists or Maoists. In-fact, Marxist-Leninist and Maoist regimes targeted those other communists are dissenters as much as they did any non-communist dissenter.

Yup. Hence why this pan leftism is suicidal stupidity.

[Pandeeria]

It's a little hard saying Communism has failed because it was attempted. many people like Mao were power hungry dip shits that hid under the guise of Communism to gain legitimacy and power.

Then we can come to the conclusion "power hungry dip shit{s}" always ruin it. Case closed, either way capitalism wins

"Power hungry dip shit(s)" and "Capitalism" aren't mutually exclusive.

[New confederate ramenia]

A Pan-Leftist is someone who believes that anti-capitalists, including Anarchists, Marxists, and so on, should coordinate and cooperate for the furtherance of revolutionary struggle rather than bicker between themselves in theoretical debate.

So... essentially... because these widely diverse (ideologically speaking) groups all have one thing in common, they should set aside the rest of their differences and work together to achieve that one specific goal?

To be honest, I wish those of us opposed to the current system would be able to work together more, but this just doesn't happen.

[Calimera II]

When are we going to admit that communism is just every liberals wet dream that's never going to come true?

What the actual fuck.

[New confederate ramenia]

Lots of people, both leftists and rightists, confuse the ideology of communism with the hypothetical utopian society of communism. The ideology wants to create the utopia. There were plenty of nations that followed the ideology of communism, but there has never been an actual communist utopia.

They followed the ideology of Communism, but they themselves were never Communist.

Exactly.

[Zoo Trouble]

A Pan-Leftist is someone who believes that anti-capitalists, including Anarchists, Marxists, and so on, should coordinate and cooperate for the furtherance of revolutionary struggle rather than bicker between themselves in theoretical debate.

So... essentially... because these widely diverse (ideologically speaking) groups all have one thing in common, they should set aside the rest of their differences and work together to achieve that one specific goal?

It's basically marxists wanting anarchists to join up with them. Then if the goal is met, the marxists will fuck the anarchists over like the authoritarian asshats marxists tend to be.