Anglican church against gay marriage

[Scanzian Freehold]

Try again this, try again that. I don't need to "try again". Tom and Brad can go open up a Bible and realize that God's design for the human family is one man and one woman (and kids). I don't care if they don't have sex, it still goes against God's design.

One woman? Numerous biblical characters with God's approval were polygamous.

And at least one with both his daughters, under dire circumstances.

[Solansica]

Didn't know there were over a million Angelicans in the US.

Does anyone know what the Christians are called that reject the Pauline Epistles? I believe most of the marriage mumbo jumbo comes from Paul in the NEw Testament, but I could be wrong.

Re: Pauline Epistles
One can be a Christian and reject Paul, but one cannot be a Christian and reject the message delivered by Paul.
When the Apostles met at Jerusalem ~50 A.D. (The First Council--which included Peter, John, and the others), they accepted Paul's Testimony as legitimate, and met to discuss what to do with all the different Gentile (non-Jewish) converts,some of whom Paul was bringing in. It has been noted that the decree to the Gentiles, (the abstract of which is recorded in Acts) is a reiteration of the Noahide Laws penned by Moses and taught in the Synagogues for generations.

"And so my (Peter) judgment is that we (the Apostles and Elders of the Church (John et al.) should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood....

" <Acts 15:19>
The Apostle Peter in the Summary of his final letter also recognized Paul's writings as Scripture and derides those who reject them.

"Therefore, Brethren, since you are waiting for these (things written in the letter), be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

<2 Peter 3:14-18>

Re: Marriage Mumbo-Jumbo
It is Jesus who states the the purpose of Marriage is between a man and a woman. These are the words of Jesus (who is quoting Moses) regarding questions of divorce and marriage. The answers are germane to the topic.

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female--For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'

They,saying to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?'

He saying to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.'

Matthew 19:1-9; cf. Mark 10:1-12
From the beginging is an inference to Genesis, and quotes Genesis 1:27-30

So God created man in His own image;
He created him in the image of God;
He created them male and female.

"God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and take stewardship over it...'" <Genesis 1:27-28>

"Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

'This one, at last, is bone of my bone
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called “woman,'
for she was taken from man.

This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh."

<Genesis 2:23-24>

To summarize--
1. Paul didn't care if you rejected him, as long as the Gospel (Good News) was being preached.
2. Paul did care if you rejected his message, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ--that Jesus crucified, buried and resurrected, God come in the flesh.
3. The Apostles of Jesus recognized him as a fellow Apostle.
4. They accepted Paul's epistles as Scripture.
5. Peter explicitly states that those who reject Paul's writings are ignorant.
6. Jesus stated that the purpose of marriage is for one man and one woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate, and be as one, as this was the pattern from the beginning.
7. The command for Gentiles coming to the faith is to abstain from sexual immorality (sex out of marriage).
8. Marriage from the beginning is between a man and a woman.

I hope you find this helpful.

[The Flutterlands]

Didn't know there were over a million Angelicans in the US.

Does anyone know what the Christians are called that reject the Pauline Epistles? I believe most of the marriage mumbo jumbo comes from Paul in the NEw Testament, but I could be wrong.

Re: Pauline Epistles
One can be a Christian and reject Paul, but one cannot be a Christian and reject the message delivered by Paul.
When the Apostles met at Jerusalem ~50 A.D. (The First Council--which included Peter, John, and the others), they accepted Paul's Testimony as legitimate, and met to discuss what to do with all the different Gentile (non-Jewish) converts,some of whom Paul was bringing in. It has been noted that the decree to the Gentiles, (the abstract of which is recorded in Acts) is a reiteration of the Noahide Laws penned by Moses and taught in the Synagogues for generations.

"And so my (Peter) judgment is that we (the Apostles and Elders of the Church (John et al.) should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood....

" <Acts 15:19>
The Apostle Peter in the Summary of his final letter also recognized Paul's writings as Scripture and derides those who reject them.

"Therefore, Brethren, since you are waiting for these (things written in the letter), be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

<2 Peter 3:14-18>

Re: Marriage Mumbo-Jumbo
It is Jesus who states the the purpose of Marriage is between a man and a woman. These are the words of Jesus (who is quoting Moses) regarding questions of divorce and marriage. The answers are germane to the topic.

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female--For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'

They,saying to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?'

He saying to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.'

Matthew 19:1-9; cf. Mark 10:1-12
From the beginging is an inference to Genesis, and quotes Genesis 1:27-30

So God created man in His own image;
He created him in the image of God;
He created them male and female.

"God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and take stewardship over it...'" <Genesis 1:27-28>

"Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

'This one, at last, is bone of my bone
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called “woman,'
for she was taken from man.

This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh."

<Genesis 2:23-24>

To summarize--
1. Paul didn't care if you rejected him, as long as the Gospel (Good News) was being preached.
2. Paul did care if you rejected his message, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ--that Jesus crucified, buried and resurrected, God come in the flesh.
3. The Apostles of Jesus recognized him as a fellow Apostle.
4. They accepted Paul's epistles as Scripture.
5. Peter explicitly states that those who reject Paul's writings are ignorant.
6. Jesus stated that the purpose of marriage is for one man and one woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate, and be as one, as this was the pattern from the beginning.
7. The command for Gentiles coming to the faith is to abstain from sexual immorality (sex out of marriage).
8. Marriage from the beginning is between a man and a woman.

I hope you find this helpful.

But God didn't invent marriage, Man did. Marriage of any kind is as God ordained as birthday party or a wake. Also it wasn't always between just one man and one woman, as polygamy existed even among the Israelites. Though I agree, sex outside of marriage, wither straight or gay, is wrong.

Also, question: why should the God of all Creation, of the entire Universe and everything in it, even care about who marries who as long as they both love each other? I think it's stupid that the most powerful being in the universe would have a hissy fit if two people of the same gender fall in love and get married. It just is.

[Solansica]

Re: Pauline Epistles
One can be a Christian and reject Paul, but one cannot be a Christian and reject the message delivered by Paul.
When the Apostles met at Jerusalem ~50 A.D. (The First Council--which included Peter, John, and the others), they accepted Paul's Testimony as legitimate, and met to discuss what to do with all the different Gentile (non-Jewish) converts,some of whom Paul was bringing in. It has been noted that the decree to the Gentiles, (the abstract of which is recorded in Acts) is a reiteration of the Noahide Laws penned by Moses and taught in the Synagogues for generations.

"And so my (Peter) judgment is that we (the Apostles and Elders of the Church (John et al.) should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood....

" <Acts 15:19>
The Apostle Peter in the Summary of his final letter also recognized Paul's writings as Scripture and derides those who reject them.

"Therefore, Brethren, since you are waiting for these (things written in the letter), be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

<2 Peter 3:14-18>

Re: Marriage Mumbo-Jumbo
It is Jesus who states the the purpose of Marriage is between a man and a woman. These are the words of Jesus (who is quoting Moses) regarding questions of divorce and marriage. The answers are germane to the topic.

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female--For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'

They,saying to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?'

He saying to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.'

Matthew 19:1-9; cf. Mark 10:1-12
From the beginging is an inference to Genesis, and quotes Genesis 1:27-30

So God created man in His own image;
He created him in the image of God;
He created them male and female.

"God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and take stewardship over it...'" <Genesis 1:27-28>

"Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

'This one, at last, is bone of my bone
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called “woman,'
for she was taken from man.

This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh."

<Genesis 2:23-24>

To summarize--
1. Paul didn't care if you rejected him, as long as the Gospel (Good News) was being preached.
2. Paul did care if you rejected his message, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ--that Jesus crucified, buried and resurrected, God come in the flesh.
3. The Apostles of Jesus recognized him as a fellow Apostle.
4. They accepted Paul's epistles as Scripture.
5. Peter explicitly states that those who reject Paul's writings are ignorant.
6. Jesus stated that the purpose of marriage is for one man and one woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate, and be as one, as this was the pattern from the beginning.
7. The command for Gentiles coming to the faith is to abstain from sexual immorality (sex out of marriage).
8. Marriage from the beginning is between a man and a woman.

I hope you find this helpful.

But God didn't invent marriage, Man did. Marriage of any kind is as God ordained as birthday party or a wake. Also it wasn't always between just one man and one woman, as polygamy existed even among the Israelites. Though I agree, sex outside of marriage, wither straight or gay, is wrong.

Also, question: why should the God of all Creation, of the entire Universe and everything in it, even care about who marries who as long as they both love each other?

Re: Invention of Marriage. Go back and read the words of Jesus regarding marriage--Matthew 10:1-9; and Mark 10:1-12. God ordained it. Man sets the ceremony but not the institution.
Re: Polygamy. See above--Jesus expressly states that it is because of man's hardness of heart (being obtuse/morally degenerate) that it was permitted but never commanded. What is commanded is for a man and woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate and be as one.

[United Marxist Nations]

And why does that matter? Also, positivism isn't the only secular philosophy that comes to non-positivist conclusions.

I am getting the feeling you are using positivism in the same way apologists use naturalism, as a target with no fixed form, and attacked not so much with critique, but using the word in a opprobrious manner.

I am using positivism to refer to this:


a philosophical system that holds that every rationally justifiable assertion can be scientifically verified or is capable of logical or mathematical proof, and that therefore rejects metaphysics and theism.

[The Flutterlands]

But God didn't invent marriage, Man did. Marriage of any kind is as God ordained as birthday party or a wake. Also it wasn't always between just one man and one woman, as polygamy existed even among the Israelites. Though I agree, sex outside of marriage, wither straight or gay, is wrong.

Also, question: why should the God of all Creation, of the entire Universe and everything in it, even care about who marries who as long as they both love each other?

Re: Invention of Marriage. Go back and read the words of Jesus regarding marriage--Matthew 10:1-9; and Mark 10:1-12. God ordained it. Man sets the ceremony but not the institution.
Re: Polygamy. See above--Jesus expressly states that it is because of man's hardness of heart (being obtuse/morally degenerate) that it was permitted but never commanded. What is commanded is for a man and woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate and be as one.

Okay. Still why should an omnipotent and omnipresent being care about something so trivial and insignificant as the genders of two people marrying?

[United Marxist Nations]

1) To clarify: It is impossible to observe things that don't (materially speaking) exist. I would say that there are things which exist in ways other than physical existence though.
2) What else would we call the cause of all existence? And it isn't, I don't know how we got on this tbqhwy.
3) See second sentence of 2)

2. How can existence have a cause if time is part of existence, and causation is contingent on time?
Existence isn't an entity. It's an ontological category.
What does it mean for something to be non-physical?
How does non-physical stuff interact with physical stuff if it's not physical?
3. Perhaps try and draw it to a conclusion then? Or create a new thread to discuss these things?

2) That is a tricky question, though there must certainly be an answer.

3) Would "UMN's autistic metaphysical abstractions" really be a good basis for a thread?

[United Marxist Nations]

I'm going based on the idea of Spacetime, but if there isn't a consensus, I will accept that.

1) But how do such mechanisms exist in the first place?
2) "How" and "Why" can be seen as the same. How does existence exist? This is an unanswerable question because it would require that we be capable of observing a condition that is not existence.

(1) It occurs as a natural result of the existence of life and the mutations.

(2) a) no it isn't, why, here, is used to solicit God as an answer, whereas how is only inquiring into the mechanism of the universe and the underlying laws that govern known reality, b) existence exists by existing, tautological, but all the more reason why it is obvious.

I mean the basic mechanisms of chemistry; protons, neutrons, electrons, charges, etc.

How do we define existence when we have nothing to compare it to?

[Solansica]

Re: Invention of Marriage. Go back and read the words of Jesus regarding marriage--Matthew 10:1-9; and Mark 10:1-12. God ordained it. Man sets the ceremony but not the institution.
Re: Polygamy. See above--Jesus expressly states that it is because of man's hardness of heart (being obtuse/morally degenerate) that it was permitted but never commanded. What is commanded is for a man and woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate and be as one.

Okay. Still why should an omnipotent and omnipresent being care about something so trivial and insignificant as the genders of two people marrying?

Because he made them mankind for a specific purpose which He purposely instructs us in what it is for.
It perpetuates the species, creates the governance of family, and speaks to who God is--for those whom He has ransomed, He has become their Father and they his children. For the Son, those whom he has ransomed are his Bride. Marriage is a type and shadow of something greater that God is doing in the universe. To mar it is to mar that pattern. God intends for us to have joy, which can only be found when we are not in rebellion and hate that which is expressed in his nature.

[Scanzian Freehold]

So, how does this all tie back in to the main thread topic re: the Anglican Church and their decision/stance? Could someone bring it home for me?

[Scanzian Freehold]

Okay. Still why should an omnipotent and omnipresent being care about something so trivial and insignificant as the genders of two people marrying?

Because he made them mankind for a specific purpose which He purposely instructs us in what it is for.
It perpetuates the species, creates the governance of family, and speaks to who God is--for those whom He has ransomed, He has become their Father and they his children. For the Son, those whom he has ransomed are his Bride. Marriage is a type and shadow of something greater that God is doing in the universe. To mar it is to mar that pattern. God intends for us to have joy, which can only be found when we are not in rebellion and hate that which is expressed in his nature.

(So, put purely and simply, an unquestionable, self-perpetuating control system, free from any necessity or benefit of free will, which the divine has also apparently instilled in us for no real purpose...)

[The Flutterlands]

Okay. Still why should an omnipotent and omnipresent being care about something so trivial and insignificant as the genders of two people marrying?

Because he made them mankind for a specific purpose which He purposely instructs us in what it is for.
It perpetuates the species, creates the governance of family, and speaks to who God is--for those whom He has ransomed, He has become their Father and they his children. For the Son, those whom he has ransomed are his Bride. Marriage is a type and shadow of something greater that God is doing in the universe. To mar it is to mar that pattern. God intends for us to have joy, which can only be found when we are not in rebellion and hate that which is expressed in his nature.

So gay couples can't experience the same joy as straight couples? Sounds a whole lot of BS to me.

[Zoo Trouble]

Didn't know there were over a million Angelicans in the US.

Does anyone know what the Christians are called that reject the Pauline Epistles? I believe most of the marriage mumbo jumbo comes from Paul in the NEw Testament, but I could be wrong.

Re: Pauline Epistles
One can be a Christian and reject Paul, but one cannot be a Christian and reject the message delivered by Paul.
When the Apostles met at Jerusalem ~50 A.D. (The First Council--which included Peter, John, and the others), they accepted Paul's Testimony as legitimate, and met to discuss what to do with all the different Gentile (non-Jewish) converts,some of whom Paul was bringing in. It has been noted that the decree to the Gentiles, (the abstract of which is recorded in Acts) is a reiteration of the Noahide Laws penned by Moses and taught in the Synagogues for generations.

"And so my (Peter) judgment is that we (the Apostles and Elders of the Church (John et al.) should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood....

" <Acts 15:19>
The Apostle Peter in the Summary of his final letter also recognized Paul's writings as Scripture and derides those who reject them.

"Therefore, Brethren, since you are waiting for these (things written in the letter), be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

<2 Peter 3:14-18>

Re: Marriage Mumbo-Jumbo
It is Jesus who states the the purpose of Marriage is between a man and a woman. These are the words of Jesus (who is quoting Moses) regarding questions of divorce and marriage. The answers are germane to the topic.

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female--For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'

They,saying to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?'

He saying to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.'

Matthew 19:1-9; cf. Mark 10:1-12
From the beginging is an inference to Genesis, and quotes Genesis 1:27-30

So God created man in His own image;
He created him in the image of God;
He created them male and female.

"God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and take stewardship over it...'" <Genesis 1:27-28>

"Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

'This one, at last, is bone of my bone
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called “woman,'
for she was taken from man.

This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh."

<Genesis 2:23-24>

To summarize--
1. Paul didn't care if you rejected him, as long as the Gospel (Good News) was being preached.
2. Paul did care if you rejected his message, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ--that Jesus crucified, buried and resurrected, God come in the flesh.
3. The Apostles of Jesus recognized him as a fellow Apostle.
4. They accepted Paul's epistles as Scripture.
5. Peter explicitly states that those who reject Paul's writings are ignorant.
6. Jesus stated that the purpose of marriage is for one man and one woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate, and be as one, as this was the pattern from the beginning.
7. The command for Gentiles coming to the faith is to abstain from sexual immorality (sex out of marriage).
8. Marriage from the beginning is between a man and a woman.

I hope you find this helpful.

It wasn't. Someone else described what they're called and it's good to know you think you're the arbiter on who is and isn't Christian. I don't feel like looking up the context of the bible quotes you provided, but I'm guessing you purposely took them out of context for whichever agenda.

[Solansica]

Because he made them mankind for a specific purpose which He purposely instructs us in what it is for.
It perpetuates the species, creates the governance of family, and speaks to who God is--for those whom He has ransomed, He has become their Father and they his children. For the Son, those whom he has ransomed are his Bride. Marriage is a type and shadow of something greater that God is doing in the universe. To mar it is to mar that pattern. God intends for us to have joy, which can only be found when we are not in rebellion and hate that which is expressed in his nature.

(So, put purely and simply, an unquestionable, self-perpetuating control system, free from any necessity or benefit of free will, which the divine has also apparently instilled in us for no real purpose...)

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you really want to continue this, I will be happy to reiterate and expound.

[Solansica]

Because he made them mankind for a specific purpose which He purposely instructs us in what it is for.
It perpetuates the species, creates the governance of family, and speaks to who God is--for those whom He has ransomed, He has become their Father and they his children. For the Son, those whom he has ransomed are his Bride. Marriage is a type and shadow of something greater that God is doing in the universe. To mar it is to mar that pattern. God intends for us to have joy, which can only be found when we are not in rebellion and hate that which is expressed in his nature.

So gay couples can't experience the same joy as straight couples? Sounds a whole lot of BS to me.

Joy is not something that comes from being in rebellion and hating God. One can derive happiness, and satisfaction and call it joy, but joy springs eternal. Those who reject God reject and the joy and peace that he specifically gives, try to find contentment in other things. Ultimately those who hate God so much that they to not want to be like him, will suffer the torment of being away from God and all he is and represents--goodness, joy, peace, etc.

[The Nuclear Fist]

(So, put purely and simply, an unquestionable, self-perpetuating control system, free from any necessity or benefit of free will, which the divine has also apparently instilled in us for no real purpose...)

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you really want to continue this, I will be happy to reiterate and expound.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsensical, pretentious horseshit a gaggle of dirty, bronze age dirt farmers came up with to justify their own prejudices and knuckle dragging ignorance.

Dude, we get it. You hate gay people, and you don't want them to be equal citizens. You can't hide behind nature, because the shit occurs in nature, so now you hide behind unfalsifiable, spiritual hokum. Just drop the pretenses and admit you just plain don't gays.

[Farnhamia]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you really want to continue this, I will be happy to reiterate and expound.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsensical, pretentious horseshit a gaggle of dirty, bronze age dirt farmers came up with to justify their own prejudices and knuckle dragging ignorance.

Dude, we get it. You hate gay people, and you don't want them to be equal citizens. You can't hide behind nature, because the shit occurs in nature, so now you hide behind unfalsifiable, spiritual hokum. Just drop the pretenses and admit you just plain don't gays.

And you've made your point. Perhaps it were best if you stepped away for a bit, because that post veered dangerously close to trolling.

[The Flutterlands]

So gay couples can't experience the same joy as straight couples? Sounds a whole lot of BS to me.

Joy is not something that comes from being in rebellion and hating God. One can derive happiness, and satisfaction and call it joy, but joy springs eternal. Those who reject God reject and the joy and peace that he specifically gives, try to find contentment in other things. Ultimately those who hate God so much that they to not want to be like him, will suffer the torment of being away from God and all he is and represents--goodness, joy, peace, etc.

You sound like you've just said that gay couples, since to you they're in 'rebellion', hate God. If that's the case then you've just lost the argument.

[Solansica]

Re: Pauline Epistles
One can be a Christian and reject Paul, but one cannot be a Christian and reject the message delivered by Paul.
When the Apostles met at Jerusalem ~50 A.D. (The First Council--which included Peter, John, and the others), they accepted Paul's Testimony as legitimate, and met to discuss what to do with all the different Gentile (non-Jewish) converts,some of whom Paul was bringing in. It has been noted that the decree to the Gentiles, (the abstract of which is recorded in Acts) is a reiteration of the Noahide Laws penned by Moses and taught in the Synagogues for generations.

"And so my (Peter) judgment is that we (the Apostles and Elders of the Church (John et al.) should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood....

" <Acts 15:19>
The Apostle Peter in the Summary of his final letter also recognized Paul's writings as Scripture and derides those who reject them.

"Therefore, Brethren, since you are waiting for these (things written in the letter), be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

<2 Peter 3:14-18>

Re: Marriage Mumbo-Jumbo
It is Jesus who states the the purpose of Marriage is between a man and a woman. These are the words of Jesus (who is quoting Moses) regarding questions of divorce and marriage. The answers are germane to the topic.

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female--For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'

They,saying to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?'

He saying to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.'

Matthew 19:1-9; cf. Mark 10:1-12
From the beginging is an inference to Genesis, and quotes Genesis 1:27-30

So God created man in His own image;
He created him in the image of God;
He created them male and female.

"God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and take stewardship over it...'" <Genesis 1:27-28>

"Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:

'This one, at last, is bone of my bone
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called “woman,'
for she was taken from man.

This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh."

<Genesis 2:23-24>

To summarize--
1. Paul didn't care if you rejected him, as long as the Gospel (Good News) was being preached.
2. Paul did care if you rejected his message, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ--that Jesus crucified, buried and resurrected, God come in the flesh.
3. The Apostles of Jesus recognized him as a fellow Apostle.
4. They accepted Paul's epistles as Scripture.
5. Peter explicitly states that those who reject Paul's writings are ignorant.
6. Jesus stated that the purpose of marriage is for one man and one woman to leave their parents, marry, procreate, and be as one, as this was the pattern from the beginning.
7. The command for Gentiles coming to the faith is to abstain from sexual immorality (sex out of marriage).
8. Marriage from the beginning is between a man and a woman.

I hope you find this helpful.

It wasn't. Someone else described what they're called and it's good to know you think you're the arbiter on who is and isn't Christian. I don't feel like looking up the context of the bible quotes you provided, but I'm guessing you purposely took them out of context for whichever agenda.

Re: Stating the obvious. One cannot be a Christian and do what Christ forbids. This would be self-contradictory.
Re: If I had an agenda apart from expressing God's Word, I would not be quoting God's word, so you guess wrongly. The Scripture is clear and the context is available to see. The use of indolence to avoid elucidation is in itself telling--it appears that you don't want to see for yourself, and you accuse others who encourage you to see for yourself of having a spurious agenda. I would strongly encourage you to read it for yourself.
**Revised**

[Solansica]

So, how does this all tie back in to the main thread topic re: the Anglican Church and their decision/stance? Could someone bring it home for me?

The global communion of Anglicans has upheld the historic tradition of marriage. 2 days ago
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... h-demoted/
Schism threatened by Asian and African delegates wanting UK and US Primates to be Sanctioned.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... sexuality/

It looks as if the US communion has been sanctioned and its leaders demoted.

[Solansica]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you really want to continue this, I will be happy to reiterate and expound.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsensical, pretentious horseshit a gaggle of dirty, bronze age dirt farmers came up with to justify their own prejudices and knuckle dragging ignorance.

Dude, we get it. You hate gay people, and you don't want them to be equal citizens. You can't hide behind nature, because the shit occurs in nature, so now you hide behind unfalsifiable, spiritual hokum. Just drop the pretenses and admit you just plain don't gays.

Not only are you being obtuse but close to hate-monging as well. If you actually want to have a reasonable conversation like caring human beings, I am willing. It may be difficult to accept that there are people who do not accept their lifestyle, but still accept their humanity.
**Revised**

[Solansica]

Joy is not something that comes from being in rebellion and hating God. One can derive happiness, and satisfaction and call it joy, but joy springs eternal. Those who reject God reject and the joy and peace that he specifically gives, try to find contentment in other things. Ultimately those who hate God so much that they to not want to be like him, will suffer the torment of being away from God and all he is and represents--goodness, joy, peace, etc.

You sound like you've just said that gay couples, since to you they're in 'rebellion', hate God. If that's the case then you've just lost the argument.

It is the thesis of the Book of Romans. Mankind is in hatred rebellion against God, His Nature, and HIs Commands. No one (not even myself, btw) is without fault before God. No one. Sexual immorality and the social disruption that it brings to our lives are the punishment we earn for that rebellion. The Good News is that while we were still enemies of God, he sent his son to redeem us. It is by repenting of our errant ways by the grace of God that we find transformation from ourselves.
I would post the Epistle to the Romans (it is too long) , but I would encourage you to read it. Here is a link.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1&version=NLT

[Solansica]

So, how does this all tie back in to the main thread topic re: the Anglican Church and their decision/stance? Could someone bring it home for me?

The global communion of Anglicans has upheld the historic tradition of marriage. 2 days ago
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... h-demoted/
Schism threatened by Asian and African delegates wanting UK and US Primates to be Sanctioned. 6 days ago.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... sexuality/

It looks as if the US communion has been sanctioned and its leaders demoted.

Reposted so it is easier to see.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I mean the basic mechanisms of chemistry; protons, neutrons, electrons, charges, etc.

Then I wouldn't know, nor should I pretend to know.

Though do not take this as a concession to your view that the origins of the myriad of things are mysterious, they are mysterious only to me due to my lack of learning, but I am sure there are sound, scientific explanation for it.

How do we define existence when we have nothing to compare it to?

As Dr. Jack Hackett, PhD. would say, 'That would be an Ontological Matter'. Existence is simply being, that we can definitively point to this object being in our reality.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I am getting the feeling you are using positivism in the same way apologists use naturalism, as a target with no fixed form, and attacked not so much with critique, but using the word in a opprobrious manner.

I am using positivism to refer to this:


a philosophical system that holds that every rationally justifiable assertion can be scientifically verified or is capable of logical or mathematical proof, and that therefore rejects metaphysics and theism.

Which is sufficiently broad enough to aim your attack at pretty much anything through name calling at ridiculous in its meaninglessness, since nothing can escape Metaphysics, and only a fool would claim otherwise.