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Anglican church against gay marriage

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:39 pm

The Flutterlands wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Some Christians unfortunately think that it should.

I find it gravely unfortunate.


And it is.
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Italios
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Postby Italios » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:40 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Just like your parents putting your favorite flavor of cake on a plate in front of you on the table and telling you not to eat it before they left the house. You are going to be tempted to eat that cake and you are going to be a fool if you don't eat that cake.

Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature yet; they were free to choose.

What if you parents said eating the cake would kill them, and then someone comes along and says, "Nope! It won't kill you, but it will make you really smart. Plus, your parents told you not to eat it because they're just greedy."

Would you eat the cake? The serpent pretty much fed Eve propaganda because it wanted them to eat it. Plus, I think God has demonstrated multiple times he's willing to test people's loyalty to him - the Sacrifice of Isaac, for instance.
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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:42 pm

Nationes Pii Redivivi wrote:Simplifying and misinterpreting Calvinism, much, innit?

I just picked up a description invented by someone else, and ran with it. It wasn't my simplification.
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Grand Calvert
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Postby Grand Calvert » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:42 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:Yeah but joining in communion with Him does please and glorify Him. So there I think we actually do agree

Yes, you could interpret them as two different ways of saying the same thing.

But putting more emphasis on the communion aspect is important, because it's a reminder that the same thing which gives God glory and pleasure is also the best thing that could happen to us. It's OUR greatest good too, in addition to being God's glory and pleasure. The proper words to describe what God wants are words like "communion", "joining", "unity", "symbiosis", "becoming one", etc.

Absolutely, no disagreements from me there.
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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:43 pm

Suominona wrote:My argument for... what, exactly? You call it an argument for something, thinking I advocate something. All it was was me stating facts. The church corrupts the minors it comes in contact with. Corrupts, as in, manipulates, or brainwashes, or convinces, depending on how much of a euphemism or dysphemism you want to use for it.

Have you assumed the whole time that I thought it was making me important? A post count on a more or less obscure website with a nation simulation and RP and discussion forums? :rofl:

So you admit it's not theologically incorrect, then lament on it not being theologically incorrect and then you break into tears calling Lutherans 'borderline heretics'. And no, I'm not dropping those claims, now that you yourself admitted in favor to them.

Again, you don't know. You know coprophagia is unhealthy and unhygienic, but that isn't what you're talking about. You're talking about 'grossness' and then relate it to incest on the basis on the emotional claim you just made. Ergo, false comparison. Thus, your argument is shit again.

You're indeed making an argument since you're claiming the church "corrupt the minors", a claim whose stupidity Const' joked about but that you didn't seem to have understood yet. So as you're trying to make a claim, you need to give some proofs to support it, little tip claiming it's a "fact" isn't a proof ;) . Until you're able to do so, your claim is assumed to be false. So, go do your homework my dear and find something to support this cynical, jaded and "how so cool" vision of the world of you.

I saw a lot of non sequitur, but one so stupidly obvious and painfully big as that, I would say that it's une première.
Anyway, it's good to see that you seem proud to be made fun of. I would say it's a good thing since it seem that it's going to happen pretty often, especially if you're so eager to give a stick to beat you with. :p

Having the priest dress in a chicken suit and say the mass with each sentence in a different languages wouldn't be "theologically incorrect" in the sense that nothing ever said in the Bible that it was forbidden. Arguing that because it's not explicitly said that you shouldn't, that not only mean you can but also that you should is a big step that you seem quite eager to jump. Most of us people who actually CARE about our religion ain't, however.
As for me "breaking in tear", don't project yourself so much into me please, it's kinda embarrassing. You're part of a Church which broke from the Catholic Church thus making you technically an heretic sect. It's quite simple you know, although I would agree that I may have mislead you by using the word "borderline" when it would rather be "downright". ;)
Don't, however, try to put words in my mouth. That you're unable to understand basic jokes or sarcasms, you already proved it two times, that don't mean that you can just try to cheat your way out of your problems. So either find arguments which prove that gay marriage is theologically correct and not a newer more "progressive" but as religiously ok form of indulgences (which were actually, btw, also not "theologically incorrect" at all) or else drop that lil' claim of your.
Anyway, you're actually are damn funny; seeing you try so desperately to weasel yourself out of the fuck you say is actually one of the best show I had in a long time. So, go on! Entertain me please. I'm eager to see what shit you'll try to pull off to respond to this. :)

False comparison, are you sure? :eyebrow:
Why is eating shit considered as "gross"? Because it's indeed unhealty and result in disease.
Why is banging your mother, sister or cousin considered as "gross"? Because it result in inbreeding and a lot of congenital diseases.
Both are as shunned because both are as equally bad for the human specie as a whole.
No personal feeling involved in this comparison hence your refutation is shit and thus incest is indeed "gross".
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North Calaveras
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Postby North Calaveras » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:43 pm

If that church doant want to marry go people who gives a fuck?
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:43 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Just like your parents putting your favorite flavor of cake on a plate in front of you on the table and telling you not to eat it before they left the house. You are going to be tempted to eat that cake and you are going to be a fool if you don't eat that cake.

Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature yet; they were free to choose.


So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?
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The Great state of Atlantis
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Postby The Great state of Atlantis » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:44 pm

I don't really understand what the problem is here. Why are gay people so butthurt about a group of old guys wearing dresses whilst grovelling for their imagenary friend and touching little boys? This is the 21st century as far as I remember and it's not like they need their approval. What on earth do they expect from a religious group whose stance on something like evolution or atheism or other religions is completely false and backward? That all of a sudden they are going to sing and dance around and preach that it's okay to be gay or something? Gay people and religious folks, always at each other's throats. Can't these two groups just leave each other in peace?
Last edited by The Great state of Atlantis on Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:44 pm

North Calaveras wrote:If that church doant want to marry go people who gives a fuck?

A lot of people even the ones to edgy for their own good (referring to the disciples of Infected Mushroom). Everyone for the most part on this thread isn't really that edgy.
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:45 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature yet; they were free to choose.


So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?

Hobbes certainly didn't think so.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:45 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:Because that's the point of the whole story.

No, no, I asked for your reasoning, not a reassertion of your original point. WHY is that the point of the story?
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:46 pm

The Great state of Atlantis wrote:I don't really understand what the problem is here. Why are gay people so butthurt about a group of old guys wearing dresses whilst grovelling for their imagenary friend and touching little boys? This is the 21st century as far as I remember and it's not not like they need their approval. What on earth do they expect from a religious group whose stance on something like evolution or atheism or other religions is completely false and backward? That all of a sudden they are going to sing and dance around and preach that it's okay to be gay or something? Gay people and religious folks, always at each other's throats. Can't these two groups just leave each other in peace?

Such edginess, and if you are going to get it right on who is touching boys in Britain it isn't the church. It happens to be the upper crust of society who has sex slaves, and tend to be massively into molestation.
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Grand Calvert
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Postby Grand Calvert » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:46 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature yet; they were free to choose.


So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?

We have a sinful nature...that is, that our natural instinct is to do what God views as sinful, which is why it is so difficult to fight against lust, hatred, jealousy, etc.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:48 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature yet; they were free to choose.


So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?


If it's any reconciliation, neither did they. Nothing's changed over the years.
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Italios
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Postby Italios » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:49 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?

We have a sinful nature...that is, that our natural instinct is to do what God views as sinful, which is why it is so difficult to fight against lust, hatred, jealousy, etc.

Yeah, but we can choose to be hateful or jealous. While they are emotions hardwired in the human brain, nothing's preventing you from not doing them.
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Grand Calvert
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Postby Grand Calvert » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:49 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:Because that's the point of the whole story.

No, no, I asked for your reasoning, not a reassertion of your original point. WHY is that the point of the story?

Because it shows the terrible things that the people in Israel did when they did what they thought was right. You can see, if you read through that book, that God is not directly commanding them to do anything in that part.
17 year-old Conservative Reformed Baptist
“So when the devil throws your sins in your face and declares that you deserve death and hell, tell him this: "I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is there I shall be also!” -Martin Luther

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Soli Deo Gloria (for the glory of God alone)

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Grand Calvert
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Postby Grand Calvert » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:50 pm

Italios wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:We have a sinful nature...that is, that our natural instinct is to do what God views as sinful, which is why it is so difficult to fight against lust, hatred, jealousy, etc.

Yeah, but we can choose to be hateful or jealous. While they are emotions hardwired in the human brain, nothing's preventing you from not doing them.

True, but they are natural impulses that we have to fight against.
17 year-old Conservative Reformed Baptist
“So when the devil throws your sins in your face and declares that you deserve death and hell, tell him this: "I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is there I shall be also!” -Martin Luther

Saved...

Sola Gratia (by grace alone)
Sola Fide (through faith alone)
Solus Christus (in Christ alone)
Sola Scriptura (according to scripture alone)
Soli Deo Gloria (for the glory of God alone)

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:50 pm

The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?

Hobbes certainly didn't think so.


Hobbes basically believed everybody was an asshole and needed to be ruled by a bigger asshole.

Good reason he wasn't as popular as, say, John Locke.

People even accused him of being an atheist back then, since he didn't believe in divine providence.
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:52 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:Hobbes certainly didn't think so.


Hobbes basically believed everybody was an asshole and needed to be ruled by a bigger asshole.

Good reason he wasn't as popular as, say, John Locke.

People even accused him of being an atheist back then, since he didn't believe in divine providence.

Which is ironic because Hobbes believed in a god composed of matter. That doesn't sound like atheism to me even on the biggest of stretches. I suppose it was more or so the fact Hobbes believed souls died after death, and there was no real afterlife. Mind you Hobbes did believe in the day of resurrection where God would bring all souls back into being however.
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The Flutterlands
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Postby The Flutterlands » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:52 pm

North Calaveras wrote:If that church doant want to marry go people who gives a fuck?

The point is, the Angelican Communion is punishing it's American Branch, The Episcopal Church for accepting and allowing gay marriage.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:53 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
So... WE'RE not free to choose, then?

We have a sinful nature...that is, that our natural instinct is to do what God views as sinful, which is why it is so difficult to fight against lust, hatred, jealousy, etc.


Lust isn't inherently damaging. I lusted after my girlfriends. So what? We wore protection.

I haven't had any problems with the latter two.

What helps is admitting that you have problems.

Then, you can hate as much as you want and be as jealous as much as you want.

As long as you admit it.

Better than pretending you are in "God's good graces" as a lot of religious people do.
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:53 pm

The Flutterlands wrote:
North Calaveras wrote:If that church doant want to marry go people who gives a fuck?

The point is, the Angelican Communion is punishing it's American Branch, The Episcopal Church for accepting and allowing gay marriage.

That much is obvious, but the anglosphere is kind of notorious for being somewhat conservative on social issues.
I am just going to lay it out here, I am going to be very blunt.

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Italios
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Postby Italios » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:56 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:We have a sinful nature...that is, that our natural instinct is to do what God views as sinful, which is why it is so difficult to fight against lust, hatred, jealousy, etc.


Lust isn't inherently damaging. I lusted after my girlfriends. So what? We wore protection.

I haven't had any problems with the latter two.

What helps is admitting that you have problems.

Then, you can hate as much as you want and be as jealous as much as you want.

As long as you admit it.

Better than pretending you are in "God's good graces" as a lot of religious people do.

Or that the sins will be washed away by Jesus or something like that. What's done is done, maybe for you it can be fixed, but that really doesn't help the damage the "sin" has caused.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:56 pm

The Flutterlands wrote:
North Calaveras wrote:If that church doant want to marry go people who gives a fuck?

The point is, the Angelican Communion is punishing it's American Branch, The Episcopal Church for accepting and allowing gay marriage.


Which is ironic, considering all this talk of letting them decide for themselves what their theology is when they don't respect the theology of people within their own Communion.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
CONSERVATISM IS FEAR AND STAGNATION AS IDEOLOGY. ONLY MARCH FORWARD.

Pronouns: She/Her
The Alt-Right Playbook
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LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:57 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
The Flutterlands wrote:The point is, the Angelican Communion is punishing it's American Branch, The Episcopal Church for accepting and allowing gay marriage.


Which is ironic, considering all this talk of letting them decide for themselves what their theology is when they don't respect the theology of people within their own Communion.

Imagine how different the Lutherans would be if their communion with the Orthodox had gone through.
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