Are these still Socialist Nations?

[Lydenburg]

China and Vietnam are socialist in name only. There are states like Cuba, Laos and North Korea that could qualify as socialist, as could Zimbabwe (all land and industry technically owned by the state or its subsidiaries, etc).

Isn't China investing heavily in Zimbabwe? How does this work in Zimbabwe's economy?

As far as I know, Zimbabwe now also use Yuan, or only using Yuan, as one of their currencies/main currency.

Zimbabwe to make Chinese yuan legal currency after Beijing cancels debts

Wow, China also cancelled Zimbabwe's debt.

It's actually a very interesting story.

According to the last figures I saw quoted China loaned $1.5 billion to Zimbabwe under the guise of reviving the imploded economy. Theoretically Zim can pay them back in exports when they get back on their feet.

But the Chinese were losing hope in getting a return, since most of the money supposed to go into local industry has evaporated into the pockets of President Mugabe and his cronies.

This in turn pissed China off, and they refused to give yet another staggering four billion dollars requested by the Mugabe government in 2014. Word here in RSA is that Mugabe took his begging bowl to Russia and got it from them instead, in exchange for platinum mining rights. This further strained relations with China, since their relationship with Mugabe goes all the way back to the 1970s when they were giving him the lion's share of weapons and training to fight the bush war. A few years ago there was even talk of China building a military base there. Now of course, they think Russia's intruding on a historic Chinese client.

The relations have yet further soured since Mugabe announced he was going to nationalise Chinese businesses in Zim, which he can legally do since the state owns the ground the businesses exist on and has broad nationalisation powers besides.

Then China, at the end of its tether, it seems, finally agreed to cancel Harare's debt - which it hasn't a prayer of repaying in any case - and Zimbabweans are currently adopting the yuan.

Let's just say down here we're all waiting on pins and needles to see what happens next. It's been a fascinating love-hate relationship to watch unfold.

[BPSR]

A country has never been socialist.

[Tokora]

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

Thank you. Some days (meaning almost every day) I wish I was born Cuban, the shame I have in my own country (though there's still hope if Bernie wins office) is ridiculous.

For the record those calling Castro a tyrant, I would like to point out that not only did he allow those who disagreed with him the chance to emigrate but also throughout the entire civil war his actions were no more atrocious than what is normally done during wartime. I can guarantee that our behavior in Vietnam makes Castro look like Gandhi. Point is, Castro truly wanted Cuba to be free and we're only irritated because we refused to buy his sugar unless the prices were low as the Batista era.

[Socialist Tera]

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

Thank you. Some days (meaning almost every day) I wish I was born Cuban, the shame I have in my own country (though there's still hope if Bernie wins office) is ridiculous.

For the record those calling Castro a tyrant, I would like to point out that not only did he allow those who disagreed with him the chance to emigrate but also throughout the entire civil war his actions were no more atrocious than what is normally done during wartime. I can guarantee that our behavior in Vietnam makes Castro look like Gandhi. Point is, Castro truly wanted Cuba to be free and we're only irritated because we refused to buy his sugar unless the prices were low as the Batista era.

Not only that, it is not as bad as Batista, disagree with Batista, you get your genitals force feed to you.

[Novus America]

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

Thank you. Some days (meaning almost every day) I wish I was born Cuban, the shame I have in my own country (though there's still hope if Bernie wins office) is ridiculous.

For the record those calling Castro a tyrant, I would like to point out that not only did he allow those who disagreed with him the chance to emigrate but also throughout the entire civil war his actions were no more atrocious than what is normally done during wartime. I can guarantee that our behavior in Vietnam makes Castro look like Gandhi. Point is, Castro truly wanted Cuba to be free and we're only irritated because we refused to buy his sugar unless the prices were low as the Batista era.

No true.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

Sure he caused a mass exodus, but had plenty jailed and killed to. And you wish you were born Cuban? You could always move there if you so wished. It is no paradise, the population is declining due to people fleeing to the US. Cuba is nothing near free. It is a one party regime that permits no opposition.

But yes Batista was a monster and we still backed him.

[Novus America]

Thank you. Some days (meaning almost every day) I wish I was born Cuban, the shame I have in my own country (though there's still hope if Bernie wins office) is ridiculous.

For the record those calling Castro a tyrant, I would like to point out that not only did he allow those who disagreed with him the chance to emigrate but also throughout the entire civil war his actions were no more atrocious than what is normally done during wartime. I can guarantee that our behavior in Vietnam makes Castro look like Gandhi. Point is, Castro truly wanted Cuba to be free and we're only irritated because we refused to buy his sugar unless the prices were low as the Batista era.

Not only that, it is not as bad as Batista, disagree with Batista, you get your genitals force feed to you.

Not as bad as Batista =/= good. You set your bar really fucking low.

[Socialist Tera]

Thank you. Some days (meaning almost every day) I wish I was born Cuban, the shame I have in my own country (though there's still hope if Bernie wins office) is ridiculous.

For the record those calling Castro a tyrant, I would like to point out that not only did he allow those who disagreed with him the chance to emigrate but also throughout the entire civil war his actions were no more atrocious than what is normally done during wartime. I can guarantee that our behavior in Vietnam makes Castro look like Gandhi. Point is, Castro truly wanted Cuba to be free and we're only irritated because we refused to buy his sugar unless the prices were low as the Batista era.

No true.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

Sure he caused a mass exodus, but had plenty jailed and killed to. And you wish you were born Cuban? You could always move there if you so wished. It is no paradise, the population is declining due to people fleeing to the US. Cuba is nothing near free. It is a one party regime that permits no opposition.

But yes Batista was a monster and we still backed him.

Cubans are fleeing because of embargoes not because the Castros are bad. I'm planning to emigrate there if Cuba does not become capitalist.

[Novus America]

No true.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

Sure he caused a mass exodus, but had plenty jailed and killed to. And you wish you were born Cuban? You could always move there if you so wished. It is no paradise, the population is declining due to people fleeing to the US. Cuba is nothing near free. It is a one party regime that permits no opposition.

But yes Batista was a monster and we still backed him.

Cubans are fleeing because of embargoes not because the Castros are bad. I'm planning to emigrate there if Cuba does not become capitalist.

No. The are not fleeing the inability to sell cigars in the US. The embargo is worthless because only the US follows it. Cuba can trade with anyone else. And does. The embargo has been a failure. Because again Cuba can bypass it wit ease. The ability to sell tobacco more easily to the US will no fix the economy. Actually our steps to loosen the embargo has seen more people flee.

[Socialist Tera]

Cubans are fleeing because of embargoes not because the Castros are bad. I'm planning to emigrate there if Cuba does not become capitalist.

No. The are not fleeing the inability to sell cigars in the US. The embargo is worthless because only the US follows it. Cuba can trade with anyone else. And does. The embargo has been a failure. Because again Cuba can bypass it wit ease. The ability to sell tobacco more easily to the US will no fix the economy. Actually our steps to loosen the embargo has seen more people flee.

https://www.rt.com/business/186528-cuba ... ic-damage/
$1.1T dollars is a lot of money.

[Novus America]

No. The are not fleeing the inability to sell cigars in the US. The embargo is worthless because only the US follows it. Cuba can trade with anyone else. And does. The embargo has been a failure. Because again Cuba can bypass it wit ease. The ability to sell tobacco more easily to the US will no fix the economy. Actually our steps to loosen the embargo has seen more people flee.

https://www.rt.com/business/186528-cuba ... ic-damage/
$1.1T dollars is a lot of money.

Why should I believe the Cuban governments number from a Russian propaganda agency? You will need a lot better source than that. Of course they blame the embargo for their own failed ecnomic policies. Though Castro HIMSELF admitted the Cuban economic model is a failure.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ore/62602/

Again the can sell products to and get tourists from anywhere else. And does. Castro himself admitted his own ecnomic policies failed.

Plus American tourists can actually visit Cuba just fine. And do. The only hurdle is lack of direct flights.

[Socialist Tera]

https://www.rt.com/business/186528-cuba ... ic-damage/
$1.1T dollars is a lot of money.

Why should I believe the Cuban governments number from a Russian propaganda agency? You will need a lot better source than that. Of course they blame the embargo for their own failed ecnomic policies. Though Castro HIMSELF admitted the Cuban economic model is a failure.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ore/62602/

Again the can sell products to and get tourists from anywhere else. And does. Castro himself admitted his own ecnomic policies failed.

Plus American tourists can actually visit Cuba just fine. And do. The only hurdle is lack of direct flights.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba- ... 2Y20140909
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/17/polit ... s-answers/
Fidel has become somewhat senile is his old age in my opinion, like Reagan did and Mao did. He has become a revisionist.

[Novus America]

Why should I believe the Cuban governments number from a Russian propaganda agency? You will need a lot better source than that. Of course they blame the embargo for their own failed ecnomic policies. Though Castro HIMSELF admitted the Cuban economic model is a failure.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ore/62602/

Again the can sell products to and get tourists from anywhere else. And does. Castro himself admitted his own ecnomic policies failed.

Plus American tourists can actually visit Cuba just fine. And do. The only hurdle is lack of direct flights.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba- ... 2Y20140909
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/17/polit ... s-answers/
Fidel has become somewhat senile is his old age in my opinion, like Reagan did and Mao did. He has become a revisionist.

Your second source still only says this is what the Cuban government says. And cites a number much smaller! Clearly the Cuban numbers are bullshit as the are totally inconsistent.

The second article says the travel ban is not actually enforced. Americans can and do visit Cuba.

No, he has not become senile. Just self reflective enough to realize he fucked up.

The whole blame everyone else thing for your own failures thing is silly. At least Castro finally realized that.

[Socialist Tera]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba- ... 2Y20140909
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/17/polit ... s-answers/
Fidel has become somewhat senile is his old age in my opinion, like Reagan did and Mao did. He has become a revisionist.

Your second source still only says this is what the Cuban government says. And cites a number much smaller! Clearly the Cuban numbers are bullshit as the are totally inconsistent.

The second article says the travel ban is not actually enforced. Americans can and do visit Cuba.

No, he has not become senile. Just self reflective enough to realize he fucked up.

The whole blame everyone else thing for your own failures thing is silly. At least Castro finally realized that.

Adherence to Leninist ideals has made Cuba a better place. Revisionism has kicked in like with Mao. I believe he should strictly adhered to Marxism Leninism more.

[Novus America]

Your second source still only says this is what the Cuban government says. And cites a number much smaller! Clearly the Cuban numbers are bullshit as the are totally inconsistent.

The second article says the travel ban is not actually enforced. Americans can and do visit Cuba.

No, he has not become senile. Just self reflective enough to realize he fucked up.

The whole blame everyone else thing for your own failures thing is silly. At least Castro finally realized that.

Adherence to Leninist ideals has made Cuba a better place. Revisionism has kicked in like with Mao. I believe he should strictly adhered to Marxism Leninism more.

Well I guess it is all what you define as better. Your definition is probably very different than mine.

[Socialist Tera]

Adherence to Leninist ideals has made Cuba a better place. Revisionism has kicked in like with Mao. I believe he should strictly adhered to Marxism Leninism more.

Well I guess it is all what you define as better. Your definition is probably very different than mine.

Oh trust me it is. We also have a very different idea of what freedom is.

[Tokora]

Cubans are fleeing because of embargoes not because the Castros are bad. I'm planning to emigrate there if Cuba does not become capitalist.

That sounds pretty nice actually. I probably won't follow you (social-security checks won't follow me to Sweden for example ) but I'm glad there are Americans among us that see beyond republican propaganda. I hope Raul Castro lives a long and fulfilling life (though I also hope the lineage is a one-time thing. I can overlook it because he was just as much a revolutionary as Fidel).

So back on topic: Are any of these countries welfare states (Russia, China, and Vietnam), or are Cuba and Scandinavia the only nations left that serve the people?

[New confederate ramenia]

A country has never been socialist.

What do you mean by this?

[Pandeeria]

Were they ever?

During the Cold War they were, but they lost and now they are turning to Capitalism.

They never were. Not even during the Cold War.

[New confederate ramenia]

During the Cold War they were, but they lost and now they are turning to Capitalism.

They never were. Not even during the Cold War.

The USSR was socialist throughout its entire existence. It wasn't a pleasant type of socialist, but it was socialist. China was also socialist until the reforms. Vietnam iirc was market socialist at some point, not sure about today.

[Pandeeria]

They never were. Not even during the Cold War.

The USSR was socialist throughout its entire existence. It wasn't a pleasant type of socialist, but it was socialist. China was also socialist until the reforms. Vietnam iirc was market socialist at some point, not sure about today.

Never in China, the USSR and it's various puppet states, Mongolia, North Korea, nor Vietnam did workers ever get to democratically vote in the work place. They were never Socialist.

[New confederate ramenia]

The USSR was socialist throughout its entire existence. It wasn't a pleasant type of socialist, but it was socialist. China was also socialist until the reforms. Vietnam iirc was market socialist at some point, not sure about today.

Never in China, the USSR and it's various puppet states, Mongolia, North Korea, nor Vietnam did workers ever get to democratically vote in the work place. They were never Socialist.

During the early years after the Russian Revolution, worker's councils called Soviets had considerable power in Soviet democracy. Later, these councils still existed and still had power, but were subordinated to the Communist Party. The economy was managed by the state, not the bourgeoisie, and the state was (supposed to be) democratically controlled by the workers. Despite remnants of capitalism and the lack of a totally socialist economic system, the country still followed the ideology of socialism.

[Pandeeria]

Never in China, the USSR and it's various puppet states, Mongolia, North Korea, nor Vietnam did workers ever get to democratically vote in the work place. They were never Socialist.

During the early years after the Russian Revolution, worker's councils called Soviets had considerable power in Soviet democracy. Later, these councils still existed and still had power, but were subordinated to the Communist Party. The economy was managed by the state, not the bourgeoisie, and the state was (supposed to be) democratically controlled by the workers. Despite remnants of capitalism and the lack of a totally socialist economic system, the country still followed the ideology of socialism.

No. Shortly after the Revolution, the Communist party absolutely dominated the economy, in an undemocratic fashion.

They weren't Socialist.

[Lavochkin]

The USSR was socialist throughout its entire existence. It wasn't a pleasant type of socialist, but it was socialist. China was also socialist until the reforms. Vietnam iirc was market socialist at some point, not sure about today.

Never in China, the USSR and it's various puppet states, Mongolia, North Korea, nor Vietnam did workers ever get to democratically vote in the work place. They were never Socialist.

None of the countries were ever communist/socialist for long.
China was for about 3 years ish or so. USSR was communist until Trotsky died. Vietnam was pretty close but just like China, embraced capitalism (although in a less dictatorship-fashion)

[The Intergalactic Universe Corporation]

Russia: No.
China: No.
Vietnam: No

[Greater Mackonia]

Yes, the United States of America, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Norway, That other place, Denmark, the Benelux...

Socialism is simply the running of industries or services by or for "society", an idea which has been absorbed into most modern first world nations.