Are these still Socialist Nations?

[Faustian Fantasies]

Russia's wealth is far too unequally distributed across economic classes to be considered a socialist state. Additionally, I would hardly consider the flat tax implemented by Putin to be a socialist policy.

[Tokora]

Maybe socialist is to strong a word. I meant more akin to welfare states.

Your “comrades" betrayed you. The Soviet Union has fallen and so has Socialism.

That actually made me laugh pretty hard.

Russia's run by an oligarchy, not by the mob.

There's a difference?

And so did that.

Cue all the Socialists saying North Korea isn't Socialist but “Juche".

You do realize that there is a huge difference between socialism (equal distribution of goods between fellow men) and Juche (The Kims are gods and all non-Koreans are {insert blatantly racist comment here} that we'll nuke!) right?

Socialism is a failed system. It seemed great on paper, but completely fell flat on its face in practice. I can't name a single country labelling itself as "socialist" that hasn't violated their people's rights, had brutal dictators in charge, or mass-murdered (or "disappeared") much of its opposition.

Here's three: Josip Tito, Fidel Castro, and Ho Chi Minh.

[New confederate ramenia]

China is state capitalist. Far from socialist.
Russia is run by the mob, a pretty damn capitalist thing.
Vietnam, ehh, maybe. I haven't researched enough to really say anything to the contrary, but I think it's a stretch.

If there's any socialism in the world, it's in the Nordic Countries, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark. They are all fairly socialist in practice.

The Nordic Countries are all capitalist. They don't even call themselves socialist.

[British Prussia]

China is state capitalist. Far from socialist.
Russia is run by the mob, a pretty damn capitalist thing.
Vietnam, ehh, maybe. I haven't researched enough to really say anything to the contrary, but I think it's a stretch.

If there's any socialism in the world, it's in the Nordic Countries, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark. They are all fairly socialist in practice.

The Nordic Countries are all capitalist. They don't even call themselves socialist.

Well, they consider themselves Social Democracies. The best kind of "socialism". But yes they are capitalist, it's just more limited in their case.

[New confederate ramenia]

The Nordic Countries are all capitalist. They don't even call themselves socialist.

Well, they consider themselves Social Democracies. The best kind of "socialism". But yes they are capitalist, it's just more limited in their case.

Their capitalism isn't that limited. Capitalists still own and control the means of production. They can do pretty much whatever they want, though there are some laws preventing abuses.

[British Prussia]

Well, they consider themselves Social Democracies. The best kind of "socialism". But yes they are capitalist, it's just more limited in their case.

Their capitalism isn't that limited. Capitalists still own and control the means of production. They can do pretty much whatever they want, though there are some laws preventing abuses.

That's what I meant by limited...

[Galloism]

The countries in question are Russia, China, and Vietnam. Since 1991 I've had no idea if Putin's spending those oil profits on anything other than guns, yachts, and golden toilet paper. China I honestly believe is a terrible excuse for a "Communist" country (Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky have probably been rolling since the great leap forward, let alone Deng's so called "reforms"). As for Vietnam, I really don't know, but I'd like to think the profits it gained from the capitalization the US enforced on it (because Reagan was both a corporatist yes man and a sore loser) were redistributed to the workers to fight poverty. Quit honestly for I know all three are run by soulless capitalists so please tell me how they're doing.

Your “comrades" betrayed you. The Soviet Union has fallen and so has Socialism.

All hail the age of mixed economies.

[Novus America]

China is state capitalist. Far from socialist.
Russia is run by the mob, a pretty damn capitalist thing.
Vietnam, ehh, maybe. I haven't researched enough to really say anything to the contrary, but I think it's a stretch.

If there's any socialism in the world, it's in the Nordic Countries, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark. They are all fairly socialist in practice.

The Nordic Countries are all capitalist. They don't even call themselves socialist.

They are capitalist. Despite what Bernie Sanders says.

They are also distributist to some degree.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
And redistributist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistr ... and_wealth

They are mixed market economies that are primarily capitalist combined with some distributist social policies. And extensive welfare states (redistributism).

Democratic Socialism is the UK in the 70s. Not the Nordics.

[The Liberated Territories]

They were nations run by socialists (for a time, at least), and supported many democratic reforms to capitalism, but no, they are all crony capitalists now.

[New confederate ramenia]

The Nordic Countries are all capitalist. They don't even call themselves socialist.

They are capitalist. Despite what Bernie Sanders says.

They are also distributist to some degree.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
And redistributist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistr ... and_wealth

They are mixed market economies that are primarily capitalist combined with some distributist social policies. And extensive welfare states (redistributism).

Democratic Socialism is the UK in the 70s. Not the Nordics.

I know a bit on Distributism, but what distributist policies have the Nordics enacted?

[Novus America]

They are capitalist. Despite what Bernie Sanders says.

They are also distributist to some degree.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
And redistributist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistr ... and_wealth

They are mixed market economies that are primarily capitalist combined with some distributist social policies. And extensive welfare states (redistributism).

Democratic Socialism is the UK in the 70s. Not the Nordics.

I know a bit on Distributism, but what distributist policies have the Nordics enacted?

A focus on providing people with their basic needs. And widespread property ownership. Promoting small businesses and family farms for example. And they have high property ownership rates, encouraged by government policies.

[New confederate ramenia]

Reagan was both a corporatist yes man and a sore loser

Corporatist doesn't mean corporatocratic or crony capitalist.

[Lydenburg]

China and Vietnam are socialist in name only. There are states like Cuba, Laos and North Korea that could qualify as socialist, as could Zimbabwe (all land and industry technically owned by the state or its subsidiaries, etc).

[Lydenburg]

Reagan was both a corporatist yes man and a sore loser

Corporatist doesn't mean corporatocratic or crony capitalist.

Ja Tokora needs to read a dictionary.

The only corporatist head of state I can think of in the past fifty years was Portugal's Salazar.

[New confederate ramenia]

China and Vietnam are socialist in name only. There are states like Cuba, Laos and North Korea that could qualify as socialist, as could Zimbabwe (all land and industry technically owned by the state or its subsidiaries, etc).

Isn't China investing heavily in Zimbabwe? How does this work in Zimbabwe's economy?

[Socialist Tera]

They were nations run by socialists (for a time, at least), and supported many democratic reforms to capitalism, but no, they are all crony capitalists now.

Capitalism is cronyism by nature.

[Seraven]

Of all socialist nations since 1917, only North Korea still adheres to the classic definition of such. Cuba also is a good one, although it is a bit more liberal - in the sense that it allows more economical freedom. Yet not as much as Vietnam, which essentially has a mixed economy system.

Herargon

North Korea is too extreme to be called socialist, though. I though socialist is basically a less extreme version of communism?

China and Vietnam are socialist in name only. There are states like Cuba, Laos and North Korea that could qualify as socialist, as could Zimbabwe (all land and industry technically owned by the state or its subsidiaries, etc).

Isn't China investing heavily in Zimbabwe? How does this work in Zimbabwe's economy?

As far as I know, Zimbabwe now also use Yuan, or only using Yuan, as one of their currencies/main currency.

Zimbabwe to make Chinese yuan legal currency after Beijing cancels debts

Wow, China also cancelled Zimbabwe's debt.

[Novus America]

Maybe socialist is to strong a word. I meant more akin to welfare states.

Your “comrades" betrayed you. The Soviet Union has fallen and so has Socialism.

That actually made me laugh pretty hard.

There's a difference?

And so did that.

Cue all the Socialists saying North Korea isn't Socialist but “Juche".

You do realize that there is a huge difference between socialism (equal distribution of goods between fellow men) and Juche (The Kims are gods and all non-Koreans are {insert blatantly racist comment here} that we'll nuke!) right?

Here's three: Josip Tito, Fidel Castro, and Ho Chi Minh.

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro killed plenty of people. And violated plenty of rights. And were both oppressive dictators. Tito was no democrat either though his regime was not nearly as oppressive as the other two.

[Socialist Tera]

Of all socialist nations since 1917, only North Korea still adheres to the classic definition of such. Cuba also is a good one, although it is a bit more liberal - in the sense that it allows more economical freedom. Yet not as much as Vietnam, which essentially has a mixed economy system.

Herargon

North Korea is too extreme to be called socialist, though. I though socialist is basically a less extreme version of communism?

Isn't China investing heavily in Zimbabwe? How does this work in Zimbabwe's economy?

As far as I know, Zimbabwe now also use Yuan, or only using Yuan, as one of their currencies/main currency.

Zimbabwe to make Chinese yuan legal currency after Beijing cancels debts

Wow, China also cancelled Zimbabwe's debt.

North Korea follows Jucheism an extreme version of Marxim Leninism where they follow a military first policy to deter attacks from western powers. It is brought on from the stalemate of the Korean war.

Maybe socialist is to strong a word. I meant more akin to welfare states.

That actually made me laugh pretty hard.

And so did that.

You do realize that there is a huge difference between socialism (equal distribution of goods between fellow men) and Juche (The Kims are gods and all non-Koreans are {insert blatantly racist comment here} that we'll nuke!) right?

Here's three: Josip Tito, Fidel Castro, and Ho Chi Minh.

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro killed plenty of people. And violated plenty of rights. And were both oppressive dictators. Tito was no democrat either though his regime was not nearly as oppressive as the other two.

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

[Yuganesia]

China- Dont know but I think more capitalistically socialist

Vietnam - Socialist

Russia- Putin is pretty right wing though his party states otherwise I believe. So fuck no.

[UIJ]

None of them are.

Alright, I think it's time for a show down.

[Novus America]

North Korea is too extreme to be called socialist, though. I though socialist is basically a less extreme version of communism?



As far as I know, Zimbabwe now also use Yuan, or only using Yuan, as one of their currencies/main currency.

Zimbabwe to make Chinese yuan legal currency after Beijing cancels debts

Wow, China also cancelled Zimbabwe's debt.

North Korea follows Jucheism an extreme version of Marxim Leninism where they follow a military first policy to deter attacks from western powers. It is brought on from the stalemate of the Korean war.

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro killed plenty of people. And violated plenty of rights. And were both oppressive dictators. Tito was no democrat either though his regime was not nearly as oppressive as the other two.

Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

Ho Chi Mihn and Fidel Castro were still oppressive dictators. The US simply supported other oppressive dictators (Batista and Diem). We could have worked with them maybe. We worked with a socialist dictator in Somalia. I will be the first to concede US foreign policy is not always principled or ethical.

[Socialist Tera]

North Korea follows Jucheism an extreme version of Marxim Leninism where they follow a military first policy to deter attacks from western powers. It is brought on from the stalemate of the Korean war.


Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro was happy to cooperate with the US but the US was to stubborn preferring to back France and oppressive dictators.

Ho Chi Mihn and Fidel Castro were still oppressive dictators. The US simply supported other oppressive dictators (Batista and Diem). We could have worked with them maybe. We worked with a socialist dictator in Somalia. I will be the first to concede US foreign policy is not always principled or ethical.

Politics is naturally violent and oppressive naturally.

[Novus America]

Ho Chi Mihn and Fidel Castro were still oppressive dictators. The US simply supported other oppressive dictators (Batista and Diem). We could have worked with them maybe. We worked with a socialist dictator in Somalia. I will be the first to concede US foreign policy is not always principled or ethical.

Politics is naturally violent and oppressive naturally.

True. The state is by its very nature oppressive and violent. A state with no rules and no coercion is not a state. Although the amount of oppression and violence varies.

[Kubra]

Both China and Vietnam maintain an official line of the current bit of capitalism being a transitional state of affairs, a necessary stage of development. Whether or not they actually believe that sort of thing or just want to maintain internal consistency, idk fam