Abortion is Wrong?

[The Alma Mater]

We're all pro-life and we're all pro-choice; the question is if we are for or against abortion.

Neither ? I do not wish to force women to have abortions, nor do I want to forbid them to in the early stages of the pregnancy.

[The Ularn]

Aha! Hidden assumption exposed.
but people do not live forever ...
ergo if F>500L where L is lifetime requirement for the average person, it stops being a limiting factor on their life expectancy

Even then, the five-hundred people will die after one lifetime, while the fifty will be able to reproduce for the next ten generations. It doesn't matter how big the resource stockpiles actually are. Whether the world has more or less resources than either of us think it does, those resources cannot support a large population for as long as a smaller one.

[Dempublicents1]

We're all pro-life and we're all pro-choice; the question is if we are for or against abortion.

Or, rather, whether we are for or against forcing a woman to remain pregnant. One can certainly feel that abortion is the wrong choice while still believing that it should be a choice left to the pregnant woman.

[Tungookska]

I do not wish to force women to have abortions, nor do I want to forbid them to in the early stages of the pregnancy.

No one said anything about forced abortions. From your statement it seems you are for abortions.

[Nobel Hobos]

We're all pro-life and we're all pro-choice; the question is if we are for or against abortion.

Neither ? I do not wish to force women to have abortions, nor do I want to forbid them to in the early stages of the pregnancy.

And in the late stages of pregnancy ? What say you then ?

[The Alma Mater]

I do not wish to force women to have abortions, nor do I want to forbid them to in the early stages of the pregnancy.

No one said anything about forced abortions. From your statement it seems you are for abortions.

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

[United Russian State]

At this point the metaphor starts to break down, so I'm going to stop using it. In a way I do see your point, though I still think you're wrong.

I think part of the problem was you didn't realise that in my analogy "food" simply represented all the world's resources, not merely the edible ones, and while in the room scenario it might be possible to make more food, we cannot make the Earth have more resources.

It may appear that with a larger population it's more likely that someone among them will know how to make a rocket ship to take us to a new planet with more resources, but bear in mind that the smaller population will have more time to come up with such a person before they die out. Also, with more resources per person there is a greater chance that this prodigy will be found and have what is needed for their potential to be realised, whereas in a larger population the odds are greater that they will be born in an underdeveloped slum and never be able to benefit us.

Ultimately, though it may take longer, I think a smaller world population is more likely to survive to reach the stars and secure its survival than a large one.

No but you can prodce more food [I mean food] faster, and produce more for it's society faster, inlcudeing produce the needed stuff to go tyo a new "house" far before they die off likley. Not to mention the larger "room" as the option to invade and steal the recources of smaller "rooms", allowing them surive longer and kill of the smaller "rooms".

Personally I chosse the room that has more people.

Which goes back to the point that went along with abortion, for those RL countries who are in risk of lossing huge % of their population. Abortions is one step that needs to be taken change that around. It's not about all the "rooms" to these, it's about their survial.

[Tungookska]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

[The Alma Mater]

We're all pro-life and we're all pro-choice; the question is if we are for or against abortion.

Neither ? I do not wish to force women to have abortions, nor do I want to forbid them to in the early stages of the pregnancy.

And in the late stages of pregnancy ? What say you then ?

I deem something with the ability to feel, hope, dream etc. a life worthy of protection. So no elective abortion at that stage, only if the mothers health or life is in danger. "Happily", such late term abortions in practice seldomn to never happen anyway for other reasons.

[United Russian State]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

You are for people being allowed abortions.

Fixed to be clear. There is anther side, forceing abortions.

[Katganistan]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

I am in favor of allowing you to choose whether you will eat chocolate or vanilla ice cream.
It does not follow that I am therefore "for" vanilla, nor that I am "for" chocolate.

[The Alma Mater]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

See the difference ?

[Central Slavia]

Aha! Hidden assumption exposed.
but people do not live forever ...
ergo if F>500L where L is lifetime requirement for the average person, it stops being a limiting factor on their life expectancy

Even then, the five-hundred people will die after one lifetime, while the fifty will be able to reproduce for the next ten generations. It doesn't matter how big the resource stockpiles actually are. Whether the world has more or less resources than either of us think it does, those resources cannot support a large population for as long as a smaller one.

And now we are pushing it - in reality the resource situation looks much different - as for now the resources are so much bigger that even the amount of generations is an unimportant number.
Besides sun outputs energy all the time, regardless of usage for example.
As i already said we have energy resources for tens of thousands of years

[Tungookska]

hmmm, interesting rebuttals

[Risottia]

You are all communists here.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Nobel Hobos]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

To make it easier for you to answer ... so do I.

[The Alma Mater]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

For several reasons, yes. The actual destruction of an embryo or fetus however is not one of them

[Nobel Hobos]

You are all communists here.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Obvious communist is easily trolled.

*waves sickle in general direction of hammer*

[Risottia]

Going through the entire phase of pregnancy and giving birth, is you accepting responsibility for the effects your actions you taken. Going through abortion, running away from taking responsibility or at least fully.

Excuse me, but responsibile... in front of what?

If I steal, I'm responsible in front of the victim of the theft.
But about abortion? As the foetus isn't a person, there's no-one else involved but the woman and her body. Hence, she's free from any "responsibility" because there's no-one to be responsible in front of.

and even willing to kill for pleasure.

Oh my! He likes hunting!

[Risottia]

You are all communists here.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Obvious communist is easily trolled.

It's my strategy with trolls. Troll them back.

*waves sickle in general direction of hammer*

I expropriate kapitali$t property in your general direction!

[Katganistan]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

To make it easier for you to answer ... so do I.

As do I, but I can see the necessity.

[The Ularn]

Aha! Hidden assumption exposed.
but people do not live forever ...
ergo if F>500L where L is lifetime requirement for the average person, it stops being a limiting factor on their life expectancy

Even then, the five-hundred people will die after one lifetime, while the fifty will be able to reproduce for the next ten generations. It doesn't matter how big the resource stockpiles actually are. Whether the world has more or less resources than either of us think it does, those resources cannot support a large population for as long as a smaller one.

And now we are pushing it - in reality the resource situation looks much different - as for now the resources are so much bigger that even the amount of generations is an unimportant number.
Besides sun outputs energy all the time, regardless of usage for example.
As i already said we have energy resources for tens of thousands of years

Yes, but a smaller population could have them for hundreds of thousands.

[Nobel Hobos]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

For several reasons, yes. The actual destruction of an embryo or fetus however is not one of them

Well, I do too. I don't buy the "taking human life" argument, but I do believe that contraception is always preferable to later abortion.

Might I ask your reasons ?

[Nobel Hobos]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

To make it easier for you to answer ... so do I.

As do I, but I can see the necessity.

It is distasteful.

Although not a woman, I am persuaded that it is also unpleasant for the woman. Perhaps no more than other surgical procedures, or medication, but both are things better avoided.

So, we very likely agree that contraception and sex education reduce the need for abortion, and are thus good things ?

[Katganistan]

No, I am in favour of people having the choice. There is a significant difference.

Yes, you are in favor of people having the choice to abortions.
You are for abortions.

Nope, I do not like the idea of an abortion. For one because it is an unpleasant medical procedure for the woman in question.
I do however not oppose her right to choose it anyway.

You find abortion distasteful, regardless of whether it "unpleasant" for the woman.

You do, don't you ?

To make it easier for you to answer ... so do I.

As do I, but I can see the necessity.

It is distasteful.

Although not a woman, I am persuaded that it is also unpleasant for the woman. Perhaps no more than other surgical procedures, or medication, but both are things better avoided.

So, we very likely agree that contraception and sex education reduce the need for abortion, and are thus good things ?

Very much so. However, as noted repeatedly previously on this thread, contraception CAN fail, therefore banning abortion should not happen.