Abortion is Wrong?

[Kma2]

I do not judge others as I am not qualified to judge. I do, however, warn and teach of the eternal consequences and let women make their own choices. The biggest lie of all is that there are no consequences.

GOD says there are no consequences. Is God a liar ?

*wonders if Christians ever even bothered to read the Bible*

Do a scripture search for punishment :Link here

[Nobel Hobos]

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

During your break from NSG, did you manage to perfect that feet-out abseiling trick you were working on ?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else ...

[Spetsnazastan]

GALATIANS
CHAPTER 6

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

" Ever since the shape of a divine being took place in men's imagination, God- all gods, and among them above all the god of the Christians- has always taken the part of the strong and the rich against the ignorant and impoverished masses. Through his priests, he has blessed the most revolting privileges, the basest oppressions and exploitations." - Mikhail Bakunin

[Kma2]

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

During your break from NSG, did you manage to perfect that feet-out abseiling trick you were working on ?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else ...

What?

[Nobel Hobos]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

[Spetsnazastan]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

[Nobel Hobos]

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

During your break from NSG, did you manage to perfect that feet-out abseiling trick you were working on ?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else ...

What?

You have my respect sir. Clearly you are no quitter.

[Bottle]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

No problem in the world that can't be solved by forcing things into women's bodies against their wishes, amirite?

[Kma2]

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

During your break from NSG, did you manage to perfect that feet-out abseiling trick you were working on ?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else ...

What?

You have my respect sir. Clearly you are no quitter.

I have never, nor do I intend to feet out repel. I think you must have me confused with someone else.

[Spetsnazastan]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

No problem in the world that can't be solved by forcing things into women's bodies against their wishes, amirite?

Fine, if you have a problem with forced abortions then how about forced sterilizations!!!

[The Tofu Islands]

While you’re around, KMA, could you please respond to this post?

[Nobel Hobos]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

Too authoritarian for me, certainly.

I don't know how "applications" would work, and I'm dubious that they could work without some horrible side effects (cf One Child Policy), but granting them for the sake of argument, would you consider instead:

"Contraception should be mandatory unless the parents have a licence" ?

[Spetsnazastan]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

Too authoritarian for me, certainly.

I don't know how "applications" would work, and I'm dubious that they could work without some horrible side effects (cf One Child Policy), but granting them for the sake of argument, would you consider instead:

"Contraception should be mandatory unless the parents have a licence" ?

Better yet, just provide free and easily acessible contraceptives to people of all ages and educate them. I don't see why any sane person would want children anyway.

[Kma2]

Abortion ends the life of a human being. Period. That fact is incontestable.

That depends on what you mean by “a human being”. If you’re referring to just a collection of cells that are human and alive, then apart from probably being able to construct ridiculous examples, it isn’t necessarily sentient.

The question is whether it is murder, justifiable homicide, manslaughter or something else.

I’d go for “something else”.

Life begins at conception, and not other time.

Even if we accept that, it doesn’t change that that life is not sentient nor able to survive independently.

Abortion ends life.

So?

Pulling up a weed ends life. Chopping down a tree ends life. Stepping on an ant ends life. We have even turned the ending of life into a massive industry (the meat industry, specifically).

EDIT: spelling fix.

Being able to survive independently does not a human make. I could probably point to several examples of humans who are unable to survive on their own (babies for one, severely mentally retarded for another), does that mean they are not human nor afford any basic human rights?

As for ending life, again, we are stewards of all other life on earth, we are allowed to use it, and kill it for our purposes. We are not allowed, however, to waste it or abuse it. I was referring specifically to ending human life.

[Grave_n_idle]

ALL those who support abortion were not aborted themselves

Yes, and some of us wish we had been. Your point being?

People who wish they had been aborted, sadden me to no end

such an irrelevant argument anyways.

But think about it in context - the opposition argument is that you can only have an opinion because you didn't get aborted - which is equally irrelevant, if not more so. (i.e. at least those who say they wish they HAD been aborted are expressing a preference from the point of view of the aborted, albeit retrospective).

[Kma2]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

Too authoritarian for me, certainly.

I don't know how "applications" would work, and I'm dubious that they could work without some horrible side effects (cf One Child Policy), but granting them for the sake of argument, would you consider instead:

"Contraception should be mandatory unless the parents have a licence" ?

Better yet, just provide free and easily acessible contraceptives to people of all ages and educate them. I don't see why any sane person would want children anyway.

Grand children are the reward for not killing our kids. Kids are a great joy and great misery as well, but there must needs be opposition in all things.

[The Alma Mater]

As for ending life, again, we are stewards of all other life on earth, we are allowed to use it, and kill it for our purposes. We are not allowed, however, to waste it or abuse it. I was referring specifically to ending human life.

But the issue is that people disagree with you on when a "human life" starts. For many, abortion in an early stage is *preventing* a life, not *ending* it.
All down to the difference between living human tissue and the thing inside that human tissue which we call "a person".

[Turanbirligi]

what aplications, what compulsary abortions? you seem to be out of order.

[Grave_n_idle]

One more problem with this.
You see, if the woman according to your plans, decides to abort, the man can do nothing.

If she decides to keep the kid, he can do nothing again and has to pay alimony for 20 years or move to cayman isles.

Unfair or what?

But keeping a baby you don't want would be fair? Enduring a pregnancy you don't want would be fair? Having your choice removed by external parties is fair?

[The Tofu Islands]

Being able to survive independently does not a human make. I could probably point to several examples of humans who are unable to survive on their own (babies for one, severely mentally retarded for another), does that mean they are not human nor afford any basic human rights?

That wasn't actually the main point, the main point was the nonsentience.

However, as far as the dependence goes, since they are directly attached to and leeching nutrients from another person, that person should have the option to deattach them.

As for ending life, again, we are stewards of all other life on earth, we are allowed to use it, and kill it for our purposes. We are not allowed, however, to waste it or abuse it.

Prove this.

I was referring specifically to ending human life.

Why is human life inherently worth any more then animal or plant life?

[Nobel Hobos]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

Forced abortions?

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Well seriously it would solve lots of problems. It's a good idea, its just too authoritarian.

Too authoritarian for me, certainly.

I don't know how "applications" would work, and I'm dubious that they could work without some horrible side effects (cf One Child Policy), but granting them for the sake of argument, would you consider instead:

"Contraception should be mandatory unless the parents have a licence" ?

Better yet, just provide free and easily acessible contraceptives to people of all ages and educate them. I don't see why any sane person would want children anyway.

Ah, so you baulk at the idea of enforcing contraception.

Making your idea of enforcing abortion either a joke, or trolling. I'll assume the former, because I'm in such a good mood.

*bites head off passing puppy*

[Spetsnazastan]

I'm strongly pro abortion. I'm a guy, but I definitely do not like the idea of something unwanted inhabiting me.

[Grave_n_idle]

Those laws were explicitly made so that people could use that argument. In other words, the conclusion is the same as the premise. There is no actual logic to see.

Heh heh, yes its all a vast pro-life conspiracy. And I suppose we faked the moon landing just to make the Russians feel bad.

Thin-end-of-the-wedge politics about abortion IS a pro-life conspiracy, and your sarcasm doesn't cover for the fact that many people pushing/in favour of these kinds of law 'reforms' have admitted that challenging Roe v's Wade is a motivating factor behind their legislation.

In other words - it's a conspiracy, but it's not even vaguely secret - so your sarcasm is ill-served.

[Kma2]

As for ending life, again, we are stewards of all other life on earth, we are allowed to use it, and kill it for our purposes. We are not allowed, however, to waste it or abuse it. I was referring specifically to ending human life.

But the issue is that people disagree with you on when a "human life" starts. For many, abortion in an early stage is *preventing* a life, not *ending* it.
All down to the difference between living human tissue and the thing inside that human tissue which we call "a person".

Right, there is disagreement. Therein lies the problem. There are 3 camps.

1. Life begins at conception.
2. Life begins at birth
3. Who cares when life begins, it is the mother's right.

I happen to be in the first camp. You happen to be in one of the other 2. This is precisely why it should not be legislated, because we cannot agree on when life begins. It should be taught in the homes, churches, and other places morality is taught. Something does not have to be illegal to be wrong. Likewise, just because it is legal, does not make it right.

[Grave_n_idle]

Abortion ends the life of a human being. Period. That fact is incontestable.

Apparently, you don't know what 'uncontestable' means.