Abortion is Wrong?

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Abortion ends the life of a human being. Period. That fact is incontestable. The question is whether it is murder, justifiable homicide, manslaughter or something else.

Life begins at conception, and not other time. Abortion ends life.

The question is "Do you believe it's wrong?".

That is an important question, but it really only addresses what you would do. I generally think abortion is wrong, so I can't see myself ever having an abortion, even in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. Of course, in the end, it's really only a question someone can fully answer when they find themselves in that situation. Plenty of people have thought they were morally opposed until they were actually pregnant, and then found that it was the best decision they could make.

In many cases, I think they more important question is "Do you think it should be legal?" because that addresses how you will act towards other people. Despite my own personal objections to abortion, I absolutely do think it should be illegal. And I will funnel my efforts at preventing abortions into advocating for better sex education, easier access to contraceptives, and more support for those who do decide to carry to term even when it is financially difficult.

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

Me too...

[The Tofu Islands]

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

I’m pretty sure that’s a typo -- from what I remember of Dempublicents’ previous posts on this choice, she’s pro-choice.

[The Future Kingdom]

GOD DAMN JUST LET THIS FUCKING POST DIE we all know its the womens right to choose and everyone EVERYONE Should stay the fuck out of it

[Gauntleted Fist]

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

I’m pretty sure that’s a typo -- from what I remember of Dempublicents’ previous posts on this choice, she’s pro-choice.

But-

And I will funnel my efforts at preventing abortions into advocating for better sex education, easier access to contraceptives, and more support for those who do decide to carry to term even when it is financially difficult.

-?

[The Tofu Islands]

GOD DAMN JUST LET THIS FUCKING POST DIE

You have obviously not yet seen that this is a recurring topic on NSG.

Even if this thread dies, another will take its place in a month or two.

It’s like evolution v creationism, gay marriage, and a couple others.

we all know its the womens right to choose and everyone EVERYONE Should stay the fuck out of it

Unfortunately, some people on here wish to remove that choice.

[Dempublicents1]

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

Typo. Corrected.

=)

[The Tofu Islands]

But-

And I will funnel my efforts at preventing abortions into advocating for better sex education, easier access to contraceptives, and more support for those who do decide to carry to term even when it is financially difficult.

-?

There are plenty of pro-choicers (myself included) who don’t like abortion and don’t want it to happen. They also tend to go for education and contraceptives as the best ways to ensure that it’s rare.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

Typo. Corrected.

=)

Oh, okay. it was just the illegal bit followed by "preventing abortions" that sort of threw me compared to the rest of what I've read of your post in this thread.

It was, like, "Wait, say what?"

[Nobel Hobos]

Despite your personal objections to abortion you still believe it should be illegal?

You lose me around that point.

I’m pretty sure that’s a typo -- from what I remember of Dempublicents’ previous posts on this choice, she’s pro-choice.

But-

And I will funnel my efforts at preventing abortions into advocating for better sex education, easier access to contraceptives, and more support for those who do decide to carry to term even when it is financially difficult.

Sex education prevents abortions. Contraceptives prevent abortions. Welfare prevents abortions (controversial one there).

Thus, "efforts" for any of those prevent abortions.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Sex education prevents abortions. Contraceptives prevent abortions. Welfare prevents abortions (controversial one there).
Thus, "efforts" for any of those prevent abortions.

Yes, that's already been explained.

[Caligaria Draconis]

I love the hilarious hypocrisy apparent in this thread.

"Moral" high-groundist christians (and some muslims too, though merely guessing that) sprout out massive amount of tears for a few aborted embryos, all while they finish up their goddamn omelettes.
(Yes, i just made that reference, yes, it is extremely relevant)

What makes you, a person who partakes actively in both consuming and utilizing the produce, flesh, or even children (as in this case) of other animal species have the "moral" high ground? Don't get me started further even if you're a vegan. The nature's caretaker's feet crush as many insects underfoot as do those of it's butcher.

Absolutely nothing.

Abortion is a concious choice of the female, and i'm very glad it exists. It is the #1 preventive measure of unwanted children that would be possibly ill-grown into criminals, or even worse, religious zealots. Out of all "bastard children"(not using "out of marriage" here, but generally unwanted, unaborted), the majority are heavily mentally imbalanced, and often suffer from variety of mental conditions. Does anyone speaking against abortion think a lifetime of suffering is more moral than prevention of it, before it even started?

I have yet, during my lifetime, heard a single reasonable argument against abortion.

People against abortion either clutch to a twisted view of morality, or to the strange and fuzzy guidelines of a bronze age book (or it's second edition, 500 years apart), that somehow is 'right' in everything, despite being proven wrong repeatedly in just about everything. I just don't get it. Do these people feel that they have enough superiority to judge upon the actions of others, even enough to condemn them with death-threats and otherwise?

[Bottle]

Some people would argue that this biological inequity should translate into a legal inequity - that a man should thus have no rights and responsibilities regarding his born children. (Well, they usually just argue that he should have no responsibilities, but I won't accept that argument without a concurrent loss of parental rights). Personally, I disagree with the idea that a man should have no parental rights and responsibilities, but feel free to make that argument if you would like.

This is what really tips their hands...they want men to have the RIGHTS, but not the responsibilities.

Seriously, I'd love to see ONE of these anti-choicers argue that men should not have any right toward their biological children. Let's see it. We've seen several of them argue that men shouldn't have any obligation to their biological kids because women have the right to abort their pregnancies, so fine. Let's go with that. Let's say that no man has any legal responsibility to any child, because women have all the say in whether to bear the child in the first place...and this also means no man has any legal claim to any biological children that the woman DOES decide to carry.

Go on. Let's hear them argue for that.

[Nobel Hobos]

GOD DAMN JUST LET THIS FUCKING POST DIE we all know its the womens right to choose and everyone EVERYONE Should stay the fuck out of it

I agree that it is ultimately the individual woman's choice. I think the 'father' doesn't have to stay silent on the subject, I think he has a say. And friends, and existing family, they should have a say. But ultimately, the woman's choice stands against all of them. If the woman chooses to abort, or she chooses to carry, it doesn't matter what anyone else says.

I see the danger of women being pressured into parenthood.

But you see, this is just why we shouldn't "stay the fuck out of it" here on a forum. Women should have thought about this, and they should have talked about it, and hell, even argued about it BEFORE getting pregnant. And not just argued about it with other women, or with their pastor or their doctor (doctors aren't perfect either).

Thinking, and learning, and talking it through and arguing about it are PRACTICE for decisions, when the thing you talked about actually falls on your plate and its your decision to make.

So even though it's not a decision I will ever have to make, I'm unashamed to be talking about it.

EDIT: I'm not writing clearly, so I must spend more words to make my point. The woman who has never talked about abortion with anyone (because it's a sin, or it's 'secret womans business' or just icky) is more subject to a father's stern words, or a boyfriend's ill-thought-out pledges of support ('cos, likely, he hasn't talked about it much either). Of for that matter, to a parents yearning for grandchildren ....

To make up your own mind, you need practice and you need learning, and BOTH follow from talking about it. ARGUING about it, even, because getting pwned is an incentive to learn.

[Nobel Hobos]

I love the hilarious hypocrisy apparent in this thread.

"Moral" high-groundist christians (and some muslims too, though merely guessing that) sprout out massive amount of tears for a few aborted embryos, all while they finish up their goddamn omelettes.
(Yes, i just made that reference, yes, it is extremely relevant)

It's pretty cheap actually. I might get back to the rest of your post later.

[The Future Kingdom]

GOD DAMN JUST LET THIS FUCKING POST DIE we all know its the womens right to choose and everyone EVERYONE Should stay the fuck out of it

I agree that it is ultimately the individual woman's choice. I think the fucker (word I am coining to mean "biological father whether or not a father in practice") doesn't have to stay silent on the subject, I think he has a say. And friends, and existing family, they should have a say. But ultimately, the woman's choice stands against all of them.

I see the danger of women being pressured into parenthood.

But you see, this is just why we shouldn't "stay the fuck out of it" here on a forum. Women should have thought about this, and they should have talked about it, and hell, even argued about it BEFORE getting pregnant. And not just argued about it with other women, or with their pastor or their doctor (doctors aren't perfect either).

Thinking, and learning, and talking it through and arguing about it are PRACTICE for decisions, when the thing you talked about actually falls on your plate and its your decision to make.

So even though it's not a decision I will ever have to make, I'm unashamed to be talking about it.

LOL the father have a say? fuck that he was the one who used the broken Condom Lawl but for real he isn't the one who has to give birth so should not matter

[Kma2]

I love the hilarious hypocrisy apparent in this thread.

"Moral" high-groundist christians (and some muslims too, though merely guessing that) sprout out massive amount of tears for a few aborted embryos, all while they finish up their goddamn omelettes.
(Yes, i just made that reference, yes, it is extremely relevant)

What makes you, a person who partakes actively in both consuming and utilizing the produce, flesh, or even children (as in this case) of other animal species have the "moral" high ground? Don't get me started further even if you're a vegan. The nature's caretaker's feet crush as many insects underfoot as do those of it's butcher.

Absolutely nothing.

Abortion is a concious choice of the female, and i'm very glad it exists. It is the #1 preventive measure of unwanted children that would be possibly ill-grown into criminals, or even worse, religious zealots. Out of all "bastard children"(not using "out of marriage" here, but generally unwanted, unaborted), the majority are heavily mentally imbalanced, and often suffer from variety of mental conditions. Does anyone speaking against abortion think a lifetime of suffering is more moral than prevention of it, before it even started?

I have yet, during my lifetime, heard a single reasonable argument against abortion.

People against abortion either clutch to a twisted view of morality, or to the strange and fuzzy guidelines of a bronze age book (or it's second edition, 500 years apart), that somehow is 'right' in everything, despite being proven wrong repeatedly in just about everything. I just don't get it. Do these people feel that they have enough superiority to judge upon the actions of others, even enough to condemn them with death-threats and otherwise?

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

I do not judge others as I am not qualified to judge. I do, however, warn and teach of the eternal consequences and let women make their own choices. The biggest lie of all is that there are no consequences. That is why I am against legislation against abortion. It does not allow women the freedom to make the wrong choices.

[Bottle]

GOD DAMN JUST LET THIS FUCKING POST DIE we all know its the womens right to choose and everyone EVERYONE Should stay the fuck out of it

I agree that it is ultimately the individual woman's choice. I think the fucker (word I am coining to mean "biological father whether or not a father in practice") doesn't have to stay silent on the subject, I think he has a say. And friends, and existing family, they should have a say. But ultimately, the woman's choice stands against all of them.

I see the danger of women being pressured into parenthood.

But you see, this is just why we shouldn't "stay the fuck out of it" here on a forum. Women should have thought about this, and they should have talked about it, and hell, even argued about it BEFORE getting pregnant. And not just argued about it with other women, or with their pastor or their doctor (doctors aren't perfect either).

Thinking, and learning, and talking it through and arguing about it are PRACTICE for decisions, when the thing you talked about actually falls on your plate and its your decision to make.

So even though it's not a decision I will ever have to make, I'm unashamed to be talking about it.

LOL the father have a say? fuck that he was the one who used the broken Condom Lawl but for real he isn't the one who has to give birth so should not matter

NH can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that when he says the father should "have a say" he means that, ideally speaking, the mother would take the father's opinion into account when she makes her decision about abortion.

This, of course, assumes that the father isn't her rapist, her abusive ex, or her abusive family member, or whatever the hell other screwed up situation might be in play.

[Bottle]

We have been given stewardship and dominion over the animals, thus we are allowed to kill them and eat them and use them for clothing. We cannot, however, torture or waste them.

I do not judge others as I am not qualified to judge. I do, however, warn and teach of the eternal consequences and let women make their own choices. The biggest lie of all is that there are no consequences. That is why I am against legislation against abortion. It does not allow women the freedom to make the wrong choices.

With the disclaimer that I actually am OK with your stance (pro-choice, though personally anti-abortion), I just wanted to ask:

Do you also believe that laws against, say, drunk driving are wrong, since they do not allow people the freedom to make wrong choices?

[The Alma Mater]

I do not judge others as I am not qualified to judge. I do, however, warn and teach of the eternal consequences and let women make their own choices. The biggest lie of all is that there are no consequences.

GOD says there are no consequences. Is God a liar ?

*wonders if Christians ever even bothered to read the Bible*

[Kma2]

I do not judge others as I am not qualified to judge. I do, however, warn and teach of the eternal consequences and let women make their own choices. The biggest lie of all is that there are no consequences.

GOD says there are no consequences. Is God a liar ?

*wonders if Christians ever even bothered to read the Bible*

Umm where does He say there are no consequences?

[JuNii]

Abortion ends the life of a human being. Period.

Periods are murder !±

nah, they just end sentences.

[Spetsnazastan]

Abortion should be mandatory unless the parents have applied to have a child and had their application approved.

[Kma2]

GALATIANS
CHAPTER 6

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

[The Tofu Islands]

nah, they just end sentences.

No! They murder the potential next word in the sentence!

And we all know that potential is important

[The Tofu Islands]

GALATIANS
CHAPTER 6

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

What does that have to do with, well, anything?

And as for the “no consequences” claim, I think it’s from a bit in Exodus/Leviticus/somewhere around there that says a fine is the maximum penalty for someone who strikes a woman and causes her to miscarry.