General Centrist Discussion Thread

[Olivaero]

The conservative party is the centrist party of the UK not the Lib dems? You'll make Nick Clegg cry you know.

Nick Clegg is a scrub tbh.

He's also pretty much the dictionary definition of a centrist unlike David "For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. " Cameron

[Kedri]

I guess I am a centrist. I am pretty conservative on social issues and I agree with the financial responsibility promoted by the GOP, but I think they take free markets to the extreme. Greed is bad and I oppose big bussiness just as much as big government.

I believe in global warming, but I think it is for the most part a natural process, still there are consequences to polluting. I think something should be done about the environment, but I am not an environmentalist, if that makes sense.

I support an active foreign policy as opposed to isolationism, but the US and our allies should respect each other's sovereignty as long as there are no human rights violations. We shouldn't necessarily spread democracy but we should topple governments that neglects its people or commits atrocities.

I support public education. While vouchers may seem like a good idea, but public schools will continue to be crap if we dont actually fund them more and try to fix the problem. I also think it should be left to the states in regards to teaching content and curriculum.

Nationalism is nation- worship. I like my country and I am loyal too it, but I am suspicious of patriotism and the pledge.

I think Libertarians and the Constitution Party are on opposite extremes when it comes to immigration.

I don't want to abolish social programs but reform them: Make work or active job training/seeking required for welfare, compassionate action instead of affirmative action, etc.

I dont know if that is centrist enoug for you.

[British Prussia]

I'm a center-leftie (Scandinavian social democrat). I hope I'm welcome here, I prefer discussing and making broad compromises with centrists and center-righties rather than extreme right-wingers

What about extreme left-wingers?
Are you ok with discussing to communists, but not with Ayn Rand supporters?

I'm from the Centre-Right, but I know mnay in the Centre-Left would consider Communism as an extreme ideology, though some would sympathise. Ayn Rand is also quite extreme, they'd find less in common with her though.

Also, you can get movement between left and centre-left. It's the same with those on the cenrre-right and right.

[Unnamed island state]

In fairness Iffy, I was a bit put off (not in the angry sense) when I saw those views on the right wing thread - I kinda assumed they were the driving majority there, and so whatever it is I believe wasn't welcome. So it seemed easier not to post there, but fine to post here.

I'd just rather that NSG didn't become swamped with endless variations on "X Discussion Thread".

I don't see why that would be so bad.

[Conscentia]

1. I never said that ideology should have control over a person.
2. The very thing that motivates political change is a desire to change the situation as necessary to fit the ideals and opinions of the person. Changing ideals according to the situation can only mean either supporting the status quo simply because it is the status quo (an objection to change), or inconsistency.

Change should be objected to if it would worsen the current situation.

Generally the person advocating the change does not believe it would worsen the situation. In-fact, a person attempting to change the situation to reflect a set of ideals must necessarily believe the result of change will be an ideal situation - not a worsened situation.

All views have inconsistency to some degree, however.

How do you know?

[Valaran]

What do you mean by "pragmatic application"? What, exactly, does that entail?

Primarily deciding on policies on the basis of hat works or would be the best fit in that context, as opposed to ideological leanings.

[Conscentia]

I don't see how the perceived extremeness of an idea/policy is relevant. Compromising on non-extreme issues still gets neither side all of what they want. And picking and choosing can still take ideas out of the context that produced and justifies them, and can therefore still create an inconsistent mess.

I don't mind inconsistency as much as I do a lack of compromise due to ideological fervour.

I can't see inconsistent thinking as having a desirable outcome.

[Unnamed island state]

I don't want to abolish social programs but reform them: Make work or active job training/seeking required for welfare, compassionate action instead of affirmative action, etc

It's already like that in the US.

[Conscentia]

What do you mean by "pragmatic application"? What, exactly, does that entail?

Primarily deciding on policies on the basis of hat works or would be the best fit in that context, as opposed to ideological leanings.

How do you determine what works without ideological leanings? Ideological leanings determine one's interpretation of a situation, and therefore one's conclusion on the situation's desirability.

[Conscentia]

[...]I believe in global warming, but I think it is for the most part a natural process, [...]

That's not centrist. Or right-wing. Or left-wing. That's just plain being factually wrong.

[Kedri]

[...]I believe in global warming, but I think it is for the most part a natural process, [...]

That's not centrist. Or right-wing. Or left-wing. That's just plain being factually wrong.

K.

[Unnamed island state]

Primarily deciding on policies on the basis of hat works or would be the best fit in that context, as opposed to ideological leanings.

How do you determine what works without ideological leanings? Ideological leanings determine one's interpretation of a situation, and therefore one's conclusion on the situation's desirability.

It's not as if Centrists don't have those. Social liberalism and Christian democracy are centrist ideologies.

[Lynerida]

I consider myself a liberal on social issues, and a centrist on economic policy.

[Valaran]

Primarily deciding on policies on the basis of hat works or would be the best fit in that context, as opposed to ideological leanings.

How do you determine what works without ideological leanings?

One doesn't.

[Uxupox]

Ok, well it is considered Leftist to nationalize all the economy. So let's say I do that. But, it's also a right-wing thing to cut income taxes. So, if I nationalize the economy and cut income taxes, am I centrist?

Normally we do these decisions on the basis of what we would consider actually working (centrism is often pragmatic application of left-right policies). So, I would consider that policy combination not to work, though theoretically, it could be a centrist policy (though I wouldn't consider it one).

Absolutely fell in love with the works of William James while in university.

[Brandenbourg-Anhalt]

I'm a center-leftie (Scandinavian social democrat). I hope I'm welcome here, I prefer discussing and making broad compromises with centrists and center-righties rather than extreme right-wingers

What about extreme left-wingers?
Are you ok with discussing to communists, but not with Ayn Rand supporters?

I don't support Communism but I certainly don't support libertarianism either or anarchism for that matter, especially not libertarian anarchism.
So to answer your question, I would prefer to not make deals with either Ayn Rand or Lenin but I would rather discuss with Karl Marx or Lenin or a far-left socialist than with Ayn Rand or a far-right social conservative if I were forced to choose between them. My experience is that it's usually a bit easier for a center-leftie to compromise with far-lefties (and in that way moderate their policies a bit) than with far-righties (conservative or fascist or libertarian)

You could also say that social democracy stems from democratic socialism, but mixed with a certain degree of economic liberalism/libertarianism, or what I would label as a Third Way between pure socialism and libertarianism (in terms of economic policies). But it probably stems mostly from socialism so in that sense I would say that I'm probably a bit closer to Karl Marx than I am to Ayn Rand

[Eol Sha]

What do you mean by "pragmatic application"? What, exactly, does that entail?

Primarily deciding on policies on the basis of hat works or would be the best fit in that context, as opposed to ideological leanings.

If the ideologically extreme policies work the best in a given situation, like maybe nationalizing the fabric industry leads to lower product costs and higher wages for fabric workers, is it the centrist position to embrace it?

Or is it the centrist position to look at this new nationalization scheme and moderate to a point to where it can't be considered ideological?

[Wolfmanne2]

Poll sucks, I can't pick centrist-dominated/lead/minority social democratic parties (i.e. Canadian NDP, Danish SDP, French Socialist Party, PSOE in Spain, Democratic Party in Italy, Labour Party in the UK etc).

Anyway, the Labour Party in the UK, even if it is down the shitter right now. Interesting to see the Tories in the UK and the Canada along with the Liberals in Australia as 'centrist' parties. Only two are climate change deniers, though all three are ideological free market conservatives.

[Conscentia]

How do you determine what works without ideological leanings? Ideological leanings determine one's interpretation of a situation, and therefore one's conclusion on the situation's desirability.

One doesn't.

One cannot decide policies on the basis of what works if one cannot determine what works.

[Conscentia]

How do you determine what works without ideological leanings? Ideological leanings determine one's interpretation of a situation, and therefore one's conclusion on the situation's desirability.

It's not as if Centrists don't have those. Social liberalism and Christian democracy are centrist ideologies.

Valaran said "as opposed to ideological leanings".

[Plusiocratic Federation of Monetia]

Well, the German CDU/CSU has done pretty good throughout Germany's post-war history. They are also pretty centrist. I guess some Americans would even consider them leftist based on their position on welfare and foreign policy even though they are generally viewed as center-right in Germany.

[Brandenbourg-Anhalt]

One doesn't.

One cannot decide policies on the basis of what works if one cannot determine what works.

No but you can be of the opinion that what works is a mixture of different ideologies instead of only one ideology in its purest form. I for example am a center-left social democrat (Bernie Sanders style) and vote for the Social Democrats in my country (Denmark) because I believe that what works for society is a sensible balance between socialism and economic libertarianism, or as social democrats call it, a Third Way between pure socialism and libertarianism. I believe in a socalled "social market economy", meaning a free market system with a certain degree of state regulation and a social responsibility towards eachother and thereby society in general. Society is more than just the sum of individuals, it's all individuals pulling together, with equal rights and personal freedoms, but at the same time also in recognition of certain social responsibilities towards one another and towards society as a whole by virtue of being a citizen/part of said society

[Neutraligon]

So what makes one a centrist?

[Brandenbourg-Anhalt]

So what makes one a centrist?

I believe the technical definition of a "perfect" centrist would be someone who is ideologically right between wanting a socialist economy and a libertarian economy (or they adhere to an equal amount of both), meaning they want an equal mixture of them. Socially, the said person would probably be right about in the middle between progressivism/liberalism and traditionalism/conservatism.

[Unnamed island state]

It's not as if Centrists don't have those. Social liberalism and Christian democracy are centrist ideologies.

Valaran said "as opposed to ideological leanings".

My bad, you have a good point.