Why do people want communism?

[The New Dawn Commune]

I thought a lot about utopian communism and my conclusion is...
that it is even worse than real-life communism. I'm serious. It encourages laziness because of the equal division of goods - no matter what you do, you get the same amount of everything. And let's set things clear - one-upping is in our nature. It is what made us. Not making everyone have the same thing, but having someone make something better. If anything, utopian communism would screw up the world.

Where does any Marxist or Communist thinker advocate for the equal division of goods? Also, see my earlier response to the human nature argument.

[Thirdwheelium]

Most human activity is driven by selfish desires. Get used to it.

Well then, who in their right mind would appreciate losing their possessions when we're driven by selfish desires? Nobody, that's right.

[Thirdwheelium]

*wipes away a tear* Oh, the poor bourgeoisie.

You need to come to the realization that we honestly do not care.

Having a house on a 4 acre plot isn't "bourgeoisie". I was just using a real event as an example of something that happened to almost everyone.
Anyway, the careless logic you have is what makes communism rise. "Oh, who gives a shit about the masses? Let's take away everything they have and put them in cheap tenements!"

[The New Dawn Commune]

*wipes away a tear* Oh, the poor bourgeoisie.

You need to come to the realization that we honestly do not care.

Having a house on a 4 acre plot isn't "bourgeoisie". I was just using a real event as an example of something that happened to almost everyone.
Anyway, the careless logic you have is what makes communism rise. "Oh, who gives a shit about the masses? Let's take away everything they have and put them in cheap tenements!"

Having a luxurious plot of land with a nice house is bourgeois, especially considering over a billion people live in slums and even more when you take into account poor housing conditions among the urban and rural poor in developing and developed nations. Tenements are much better than slums, ghettos, or homelessness any day.

[Aterrian Union]

70 rich people have the same wealth as the world's 3.5 billion poorest. Something is definitely wrong here...

[The New Dawn Commune]

Most human activity is driven by selfish desires. Get used to it.

Well then, who in their right mind would appreciate losing their possessions when we're driven by selfish desires? Nobody, that's right.

No one is advocating for the acquisition of personal property.

[The New Dawn Commune]

Well then, who in their right mind would appreciate losing their possessions when we're driven by selfish desires? Nobody, that's right.

No one is advocating for the acquisition of personal property.

[The balkens]

No. Most of my family was made miserable due to communism. Amongst them were engineers, teachers and scientists, and our family lost all its oldest lands and possessions.

*wipes away a tear* Oh, the poor bourgeoisie.

You need to come to the realization that we honestly do not care.

Well, dont expect us to care about the revolution WHICH IS SOOOOON!(tm). It will be funny, watching it on TV. Like watching those Brawl videos on Youtube!

[The New Dawn Commune]

70 rich people have the same wealth as the world's 3.5 billion poorest. Something is definitely wrong here...

Whatever it is it can't be capitalism amirite? /s

[Pan Asian Amercian Coalition]

It's one of those things that sounds great in theory but falls apart when applied.

[The New Dawn Commune]

It's one of those things that sounds great in theory but falls apart when applied.

If it is great in theory then we should work to make sure it is applied correctly. Many "actual existing Socialisms" fell due to external pressures or faults in theory. Why shouldn't we work our hardest to correct the mistakes of the past and try again?

[The balkens]

It's one of those things that sounds great in theory but falls apart when applied.

If it is great in theory then we should work to make sure it is applied correctly. Many "actual existing Socialisms" fell due to external pressures or faults in theory. Why shouldn't we work our hardest to correct the mistakes of the past and try again?

I dunno.

How many millions of people will have to die in the name of Progress?

[Thirdwheelium]

Having a house on a 4 acre plot isn't "bourgeoisie". I was just using a real event as an example of something that happened to almost everyone.
Anyway, the careless logic you have is what makes communism rise. "Oh, who gives a shit about the masses? Let's take away everything they have and put them in cheap tenements!"

Having a luxurious plot of land with a nice house is bourgeois, especially considering over a billion people live in slums and even more when you take into account poor housing conditions among the urban and rural poor in developing and developed nations. Tenements are much better than slums, ghettos, or homelessness any day.

I never said "luxurious". In a rural area where most people owned agricultural lands, 4 acres isn't much. Anywho, the concept of a bourgeoisie layer of society is based on how much that country's middle class earns, not based on a worldwide average. Don't bring the "most people live in poor conditions" argument into this, it's a great thing that regular housing is taken for granted in western society, but taking it away isn't something anyone would like.

[For Ourselves]

I wonder why do so many people want communism. It has been proved that it is a very bad system and it is destructive to nations. Here are a few arguments against communism:

1. Lack of freedom. In communist countries people get arrested for merely being against communism. Press is strictly regulated and censored. People are arrested and even killed for being in anticommunist protests. Foreign trips are nearly impossible because of their cost and the suspicion of the government for them.

Then don't be against communism, go to protests or foreign trips.

2. Harsh penitential system for dissenters. People caught on being against the government are frequently tortured, even to death. Some get sentenced to a few years in solitary confinement, while others get killed. Many dissenters die of police brutality and the killers go unpunished.

Then don't dissent.

3. Violent antitheism. In communist nations faiths are heavily repressed. Churches are
destroyed and people have to stay under the radar with their faith. What's worse, many people get imprisoned or even killed just for keeping to their faiths.

Then don't be religious.

4. Bad economy. In communist countries people are really poor. They live for under 1/5 of Westrrn wages. This might be caused by the bad governmental control of the economy.

Then work.

5. Aprovisational trouble. Citizens of communist countries have to wait very long to get basic items. You have to wait for over ten years to get an apartment or a car. Waiting time for having a telephone line is a few years. Even things like meat or butter are rare in shops and even if they get to them, you have to stand in a line for a few hours just to get them.

Then wait.

6. Shoddy products. The communist method of directing workers causes their productive output to be of very bad quality. TVs made in communist states are known for being fire-prone and cars made there survive over 10 years only because cars are such a rarity.

Then buy more products.

7. Economic instability. While many people think that communism gives a more stable economy than capitalism, they are wrong. In communism, inflation is rampant (money's value can go down by 50% in a few years, eating savings up), stores might not have basic items, such as toilet paper or lemons and families are afraid of breadwinners getting arrested.

Then work some more.

8. Heavy internet censorship and lack of access to it. Communist countries do their best to stop spreading dissent through the internet. In such nations internet traffic is spied on and foreign or dissent sites are blocked. Another barrier is the lack of money to buy a computer and an internet access amongst families.

Then don't use the internet or have a computer.

So, if you were a supporter of communism before reading this, think again. Do you still support communism? Do you support lack of freedom and a bad economy? Maybe you have more arguments for communism? Tell me!

Yes, I support communism, and before you ask of the unreasonableness of my solutions to your problems, a dumb post deserves dumb answers. Have a good one.

[The New Dawn Commune]

If it is great in theory then we should work to make sure it is applied correctly. Many "actual existing Socialisms" fell due to external pressures or faults in theory. Why shouldn't we work our hardest to correct the mistakes of the past and try again?

I dunno.

How many millions of people will have to die in the name of Progress?

I don't know. How many millions were killed, starved, disposed of their land and means of production for the primitive accumulation of capital to take effect? Marx said it ever so eloquently:

The discovery of gold and silver in America, the extirpation, enslavement and entombment in mines of the aboriginal population, the beginning of the conquest and looting of the East Indies, the turning of Africa into a warren for the commercial hunting of black-skins, signaled the rosy dawn of the era of capitalist production. These idyllic proceedings are the chief moments of primitive accumulation. On their heels treads the commercial war of the European nations, with the globe for a theatre. It begins with the revolt of the Netherlands from Spain, assumes giant dimensions in England's Anti-Jacobin War, and is still going on in the opium wars against China, &c. The different moments of primitive accumulation distribute themselves now, more or less in chronological order, particularly over Spain, Portugal, Holland, France, and England. In England at the end of the 17th century, they arrive at a systematical combination, embracing the colonies, the national debt, the modern mode of taxation, and the protectionist system. These methods depend in part on brute force, e.g., the colonial system. But, they all employ the power of the state, the concentrated and organized force of society, to hasten, hot-house fashion, the process of transformation of the feudal mode of production into the capitalist mode, and to shorten the transition. Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one. It is itself an economic power.

Mao was right when he said that revolutions weren't tea parties and Marx was right when he said that progress comes with struggle. People would probably die, but the cause is worth the struggle.

[Loranja]

If it is great in theory then we should work to make sure it is applied correctly. Many "actual existing Socialisms" fell due to external pressures or faults in theory. Why shouldn't we work our hardest to correct the mistakes of the past and try again?

I dunno.

How many millions of people will have to die in the name of Progress?

Probably not as many people who've died because of capitalism.

[Zoo Trouble]

For Ourselves is the most greediest fucker around.

[The balkens]

I dunno.

How many millions of people will have to die in the name of Progress?

Probably not as many people who've died because of capitalism.

And look how far that has gotten us?
and look at the USS-Aw....

it came down with a sudden case of couldnt deal with the rapidly changing world and rightfully died.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I dunno.

How many millions of people will have to die in the name of Progress?

Probably not as many people who've died because of capitalism.

Depends on how you define progress. Christians of the middle ages probably considered the Teutonic crusades to be progress for spreading the word of Christ. You have to really narrow down the definition to exclude enough examples for capitalism to have a higher body count.

[The New Dawn Commune]

Having a luxurious plot of land with a nice house is bourgeois, especially considering over a billion people live in slums and even more when you take into account poor housing conditions among the urban and rural poor in developing and developed nations. Tenements are much better than slums, ghettos, or homelessness any day.

I never said "luxurious". In a rural area where most people owned agricultural lands, 4 acres isn't much. Anywho, the concept of a bourgeoisie layer of society is based on how much that country's middle class earns, not based on a worldwide average. Don't bring the "most people live in poor conditions" argument into this, it's a great thing that regular housing is taken for granted in western society, but taking it away isn't something anyone would like.

My mistake, I was thinking you were talking about something other than rural agricultural lands. The point still stands though, and there is a distinction between global and national bourgeois and global and national proletariat. The global proletariat and national proletariat is increasing day by day and living conditions remain poor, even in developed, suburban areas where housing prices fluctuate and gentrification increases the amount living in squalor. You can't say capitalism creates a higher standard of living and ignore its global impact. No one wants to take away regular housing. I want everyone to have equal access to adequate housing.

[The New Dawn Commune]

Probably not as many people who've died because of capitalism.

And look how far that has gotten us?
and look at the USS-Aw....

it came down with a sudden case of couldnt deal with the rapidly changing world and rightfully died.

if by that you mean collapsed due to outstanding external pressures, theoretical disarray, and a crisis ridden state capitalist economy then sure. The primitive accumulation of capital was and is abominable and is enough for any person sympathetic to the human condition to reject capitalism as monstrous.

[Loranja]

Probably not as many people who've died because of capitalism.

And look how far that has gotten us?
and look at the USS-Aw....

it came down with a sudden case of couldnt deal with the rapidly changing world and rightfully died.

You say that people shouldn't be sacrificed for "Progress," and yet it's fine if people are sacrificed for "Progress" in capitalism. That makes no sense. Look how far it's gotten us—so far that people now don't get paid the full value of their labor, most don't know how to survive on their own or produce their own food/resources, and people have basically no control over the means of production. And let's not forget that people now essentially have to prostitute themselves in order maintain a decent standard of living. We've certainly come far.

[The balkens]

And look how far that has gotten us?
and look at the USS-Aw....

it came down with a sudden case of couldnt deal with the rapidly changing world and rightfully died.

if by that you mean collapsed due to outstanding external pressures, theoretical disarray, and a crisis ridden state capitalist economy then sure. The primitive accumulation of capital was and is abominable and is enough for any person sympathetic to the human condition to reject capitalism as monstrous.

Oh please, Communism cannot adapt at all. Its like that one prehistoric creature you hear about but died due being unable to swim

China, however, adapted quickly and saved itself the embarrassment of collapse in the 90s.

[Galactic Assembly of Free Planets]

And look how far that has gotten us?
and look at the USS-Aw....

it came down with a sudden case of couldnt deal with the rapidly changing world and rightfully died.

You say that people shouldn't be sacrificed for "Progress," and yet it's fine if people are sacrificed for "Progress" in capitalism. That makes no sense. Look how far it's gotten us—so far that people now don't get paid the full value of their labor, most don't know how to survive on their own or produce their own food/resources, and people have basically no control over the means of production. And let's not forget that people now essentially have to prostitute themselves in order maintain a decent standard of living. We've certainly come far.

We capitalists have feared and hated the state more than each other, and yet nonetheless called upon it to save our skins and still do, perhaps because it has guns and people who spent months and years learning how to use more powerful guns. It's excusable to have slums, as long as teh ebil gubmint didn't make them come into being with its' guns.

[For Ourselves]

For Ourselves is the most greediest fucker around.

Wouldn't have it any other way. Get sigged, friend.