You reap what you sow? Mass sexual assault in Germany

[The Nuclear Fist]

Are you truly saying that Charlie Hebdo "DESERVED" to get attacked because of it's caricatures? That it somewhat asked for it by being so provocative?
Funnily enough, there is one other kind of people who use the same rhetoric as you but that you shouldn't be so eager to emulate.
Rape Apologists.

Show me where I said that. There's a difference between saying someone is not blameless and saying they deserved what happened.

Unless you actively attempt to threaten their safety, you are entirely blameless if they attack you. That's how it works in the civilized world.

"They hurt my precious, fragile feelings" isn't a valid excuse when you're five, so it sure as fuck isn't valid as an adult.

[Alyakia]

Swiss police said several women were allegedly robbed and sexually assaulted in Zurich on New Year’s Eve, adding the attack method appeared “a little bit similar” to that used in a spate of assaults in Germany.

switzerland, famously open to immigrants and refugees.

[Aelex]

Yet you're still justifying the righteousness of the people who attacked them. Anglo-Saxon liberalism to it's finest.

Show me where I did that. Saying that you must be prepared for backlash is not the same as saying that the people doing the backlash were right to do it.

Yes it is.

"If she didn't dressed so slutty, that wouldn't have happened.","Well, she shouldn't have drunk so much!","Yeah, she shouldn't have get into the car of a man she didn't known..."
Rape apologist argument.
You're implying that the victim is somewhat responsible for what happened to her.

[Iwassoclose]

I am wondering why you are trying to apply tumblrisms to me.

The assumption that anyone who doesn't think all Muslims are backwards barbaric freedom hating Durka Durkas are trigger sensitive SJW tumblrinas.

Unlike yours where everyone who disagree with your views are racists and call them sand "niggers" for fun.

I cant belive you are still going on with the hyperbole.

[Vassenor]

The assumption that anyone who doesn't think all Muslims are backwards barbaric freedom hating Durka Durkas are trigger sensitive SJW tumblrinas.

Unlike yours where everyone who disagree with your views are racists and call them sand "niggers" for fun.

I cant belive you are still going on with the hyperbole.

People have actually said that here?

[Vassenor]

Show me where I did that. Saying that you must be prepared for backlash is not the same as saying that the people doing the backlash were right to do it.

Yes it is.

"If she didn't dressed so slutty, that wouldn't have happened.","Well, she shouldn't have drunk so much!","Yeah, she shouldn't have get into the car of a man she didn't known..."
Rape apologist argument.
You're implying that the victim is somewhat responsible for what happened to her.

I said show me where I said that. Not where you started putting words in my mouth. Or started calling me a rape apologist because I am able to disassociate the terrorists from the rest of Islam.

[Iwassoclose]

Unlike yours where everyone who disagree with your views are racists and call them sand "niggers" for fun.

I cant belive you are still going on with the hyperbole.

People have actually said that here?

Gauthier, he used that word trying to imply my position on this situation.

[Vassenor]

People have actually said that here?

Gauthier, he used that word trying to imply my position on this situation.

You said yourself it was hyperbole, yet you're still trying to put it across as someone's actual position.

[Olerand]

As clearly no one has bothered to get information -because there are people still arguing what are now facts- I will repost Le Monde's coverage of Die Welt, Spiegel and Bild.

[Olerand]

Alright, so a translation. EDIT: Le Monde is reporting on an article from a German newspaper, from Die Welt; and the rest from Bild and Spiegel. If the report from Die Welt is also confirmed -the info from Bild and Spiegel is confirmed as true, this is some serious issue. Anyway so, in bullet points:

From the Die Welt report:

- The police actually, contrary to their claims, have precise information about the events. They actually stopped over 100 men that night -they claim they stopped no one. Some were arrested. Only a small minority of those stopped and arrested were North African -as is the official claim, which also initially included sub-Saharan Africans- the biggest part were Syrian.

- The information about the night was being provided by police officers present at the station in Cologne that night; they are speaking anonymously, to contradict de Maizière -the Interior Minister- who said the police were at fault for not doing enough and not responding. Also Le Monde reminds, Reker -that lovely woman of the code of conduct infamy- said there was no proof any of the assailants were migrants.

- Die Welt reports that at the station, the men controlled showed identification documents received during the registration for asylum process. The men wanted to "commit sexual aggression, or in other words, to have sexual fun (makes sense in French, not so much in English). According to the police, there wasn't 1000 men, but more about 2000. Almost all of Arab origin, crowding around a ray of about two kilometers around the station. No one expected this, and no one could prevent it. These facts have been confirmed by a leaked police report -provided by Die Welt.

- Asked about this by the journal, the chief of the police union of North Rhine-Westphalia said : "I can understand that some officers would leak information anonymously. They want to defend (themselves, and the profession I presume from the way it is written) against the false accusations flying around". The union chief also confirmed the claim -made by the mayor and the Cologne chief of police- that nothing proved that the attackers were migrants was false.

Confirmed from Bild and Spiegel; tragic and detailed telling of events:

- Thursday, the German press, so other than Die Welt, also reported that a police report shows that the events were more serious than what the police acknowledged. This information is provided by Bild and Spiegel. The police present were utterly overwhelmed, the men present were assaulting women, throwing bottles and fireworks around the area. Bild's report describes the station completely surrounded by thousands of men "essentially (or mostly, they mean mostly I'm not sure if essentially means mostly in English as accurately as in French) issued from immigration"; under the influence, firing bottles and fireworks at crowds and the police. Even during the beginning of the night -keep in mind, the next day, Cologne police reported the night was orderly and went well- at around 9:45, people were already reporting robberies and sexual assaults. In a quote, even the appearance of the police did not stop the events, not in the station, nor outside. At around 10:45, the area fills up some more (this has to have been organized, that's just my opinion here) women present "accompanied (by men I presume) or otherwise, had to go through a veritable obstacle course to get out and away from the station". Considering the fireworks being fired at people, the police say they needed to evacuate the area, to avoid physical injury (sucks for the women I guess, sexual assault and rape are not "physical injuries" maybe) or death.

- The evacuation begins at around 11:30 and is extremely difficult because of the violence of the men present. During the operation, "numerous young women and women, shocked and in tears, run to the police and report having been assaulted sexually by groups of men". "The police couldn't control the events, assaults or crimes, there were too many occurring at the same time". The police, who the report acknowledged were overwhelmed, could no longer keep track of the complaints.

- The entire station was sacked; trains could not be boarded or unloaded. To the cries of help, the police could not adequately respond because the assailants formed tight circles around their victims; many women were only and barely saved from being raped by passersby, who were in turn assaulted (Underlined by me for emphasis, this struck me strongly). "In this situation, no arrests were possible". The policeman reporting writes he faced a level of "disrespect" never experienced in "29 years of service".

- Complaints have now risen to 121. 3/4 of them are now classified as sexual assaults, including 2 rapes. Complaints are also being filed in other cities in Germany. At Stuttgart, Munich, Berlin; and Hamburg where 50 sexual assaults in similar conditions have been reported.

- The spokesperson of the city police said to Spiegel that the phenomenon of men encircling women to assault them and rape them has never been seen before; even during popular events like the port celebrations, where thefts and harassments are more commonly reported.

- Several German politicians, including Mutti, have promised a firm response.

In conclusion, I am reminded of the NYT piece that they apparently chose to run -from the Associated Press- instead of this; where a Germano-Tunisian lawyer said they (don't know who "they" are) will sue the police if anti-Muslim acts spike in Germany, because the police baseless-ly (apparently not) reported that the assailants were Arab.

Oof.

EDIT: Edited for clarity and such.

[Olerand]

Positive depiction? Isn't that obviously everywhere? It's common knowledge that Islam is a religion of peace now, and that terrorists have no religion. Right? Let me ask you, where is the freedom of speech and conscience if we can't talk about another culture, another religion, in a negative light? Charlie Hebdo did so, as satire, and liberals around the world deemed it insensitive and I dare say many thought that they shuoldn't have been allowed to publish. Then you have muslims around the world agreeing with these "terrorists", just disagreeing on the methods.

Keep trying to call me racist. What's more racist perhaps is the West's liberal's belief that their morality and values is superior than that of the so-called "terrorists" (how about Sunni freedom fighters, for ISIS?). Do I think it is superior? No, but in this multicultural world it's necessary.

Where am I saying you can't discuss them negatively? Where have I actually called you racist?

And here's the thing. If you insult someone, and they punch you in the face for it, are you entirely blameless? If you take an action, you accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

I guess it's funny. People hold up Charlie Hebdo as a shining bastion of free speech while using them as an excuse to suppress the free speech of others.

Draw a cartoon = offend people = die. Death is the logical conclusion for hurt emotions. Yup.

At least the Anglo-Saxon liberals and the Islamo-left is consistent, this is the same harp you've been playing since Charlie Hebdo was slaughtered. What of the Jews though? You always forget the slaughtered Jews in the supermarket. What did they do? Cause offense by existing?

[Aelex]

I said show me where I said that. Not where you started putting words in my mouth. Or started calling me a rape apologist because I am able to disassociate the terrorists from the rest of Islam.

Want me to quote ya? Here we go :

And here's the thing. If you insult someone, and they punch you in the face for it, are you entirely blameless? If you take an action, you accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

You're indeed blaming the victims, in that case Charlie's journalists who got killed, by saying that the terrorists had legitimate reasons to do so because they felt insulted by the caricatures drawn in Charlie Hebdo.
This is akin to saying that it's a woman fault if she get raped because she was drunk or get in a car with a man she didn't known. After all, it's because of her own actions that she got raped so she totally should accept the "responsibility" coming with them!

[Vassenor]

I said show me where I said that. Not where you started putting words in my mouth. Or started calling me a rape apologist because I am able to disassociate the terrorists from the rest of Islam.

Want me to quote ya? Here we go :

And here's the thing. If you insult someone, and they punch you in the face for it, are you entirely blameless? If you take an action, you accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

You're indeed blaming the victims, in that case Charlie's journalists who got killed, by saying that the terrorists had legitimate reasons to do so because they felt insulted by the caricatures drawn in Charlie Hebdo.
This is akin to saying that it's a woman fault if she get raped because she was drunk or get in a car with a man she didn't known. After all, it's because of her own actions that she got raped so she totally should accept the "responsibility" coming with them!

OK, so I was wrong about that. Now how does that one slip invalidate everything that I said? Since we're not in a courtroom, and "fruit of the poisonous tree" isn't a thing here.

[Iwassoclose]

Gauthier, he used that word trying to imply my position on this situation.

You said yourself it was hyperbole, yet you're still trying to put it across as someone's actual position.

Actually that was his position. He basically called me a racist when I called him out on it.

The hyperbole comment was basically...what he is still doing.

[Baltenstein]

Where am I saying you can't discuss them negatively? Where have I actually called you racist?

And here's the thing. If you insult someone, and they punch you in the face for it, are you entirely blameless? If you take an action, you accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

I guess it's funny. People hold up Charlie Hebdo as a shining bastion of free speech while using them as an excuse to suppress the free speech of others.

Draw a cartoon = offend people = die. Death is the logical conclusion for hurt emotions. Yup.

At least the Anglo-Saxon liberals and the Islamo-left is consistent, this is the same harp you've been playing since Charlie Hebdo was slaughtered. What of the Jews though? You always forget the slaughtered Jews in the supermarket. What did they do? Cause offense by existing?

Well, Israel is oppressing the Palestinians and...

[Olerand]

Draw a cartoon = offend people = die. Death is the logical conclusion for hurt emotions. Yup.

At least the Anglo-Saxon liberals and the Islamo-left is consistent, this is the same harp you've been playing since Charlie Hebdo was slaughtered. What of the Jews though? You always forget the slaughtered Jews in the supermarket. What did they do? Cause offense by existing?

Well, Israel is oppressing the Palestinians and...

Oh I know, I've heard it before, don't worry. I've heard that argument -and the defense of the Charlie Hebdo massacre- in a handful of cases and from the usual suspects in France; I have now learned I am much more likely to run into these arguments here in America.

It's an interesting dynamic, that's for sure.

[The Alma Mater]

Well, Israel is oppressing the Palestinians and...

Oh I know, I've heard it before, don't worry. I've heard that argument -and the defense of the Charlie Hebdo massacre- in a handful of cases and from the usual suspects in France; I have now learned I am much more likely to run into these arguments here in America.

It's an interesting dynamic, that's for sure.

Don't forget the claims it was not muslims at all, but all a false flag by the USA...

[Aelex]

OK, so I was wrong about that. Now how does that one slip invalidate everything that I said? Since we're not in a courtroom, and "fruit of the poisonous tree" isn't a thing here.

Well given it isn't so much a "fruit of the poisonous tree" but rather an obvious exemple of your double standarts showing which thus indeed undermine the credibility of your whole argument.
That you're using the literal same rhetoric as rape apologist is quite bad on itself but the real problem is that by doing so you're trying to justify the actions of fucking I.S.I.S.
You're endorsing the deeds of a freaking terrorists group just so you could show to the world how "tolerant" you are of muslim and how you're not judging their "religion of peace".

If that's not enough of a problem to you, then I don't know what is.

[Vassenor]

Oh I know, I've heard it before, don't worry. I've heard that argument -and the defense of the Charlie Hebdo massacre- in a handful of cases and from the usual suspects in France; I have now learned I am much more likely to run into these arguments here in America.

It's an interesting dynamic, that's for sure.

Don't forget the claims it was not muslims at all, but all a false flag by the USA...

Who even seriously claims that sort of thing any more? Surveillance is prevalent from most governments that such false-flagging is almost impossible to effectively pull off.

[Gauthier]

Real life primer. When flamebaiting a marginalized and demonized group, if you get attacked you are no longer a troll but now an innocent victim and crusader for free speech.

[Vassenor]

OK, so I was wrong about that. Now how does that one slip invalidate everything that I said? Since we're not in a courtroom, and "fruit of the poisonous tree" isn't a thing here.

Well given it isn't so much a "fruit of the poisonous tree" but rather an obvious exemple of your double standarts showing which thus indeed undermine the credibility of your whole argument.
That you're using the literal same rhetoric as rape apologist is quite bad on itself but the real problem is that by doing so you're trying to justify the actions of fucking I.S.I.S.
You're endorsing the deeds of a freaking terrorists group just so you could show to the world how "tolerant" you are of muslim and how you're not judging their "religion of peace".

If that's not enough of a problem to you, then I don't know what is.

How have I endorsed terrorism? How have I said at any point that any terrorist act has been a righteous thing?

[Aelex]

Real life primer. When flamebaiting a marginalized and demonized group, if you get attacked you are no longer a troll but now an innocent victim and crusader for free speech.

Hyberboles and victim complex both pushed to their paroxysm and someway fit inside a single person.
You're truly a wonder Gauthier.

[The Alma Mater]

Don't forget the claims it was not muslims at all, but all a false flag by the USA...

Who even seriously claims that sort of thing any more?

Quite a few of my muslim coworkers actually. None of whom bears even the vaguest resemblance to a terrorist I might add (unless one counts the collecting of "Transformers Decepticons" as a terrorist activity) - but they do genuinely believe that.

[Olerand]

Real life primer. When flamebaiting a marginalized and demonized group, if you get attacked you are no longer a troll but now an innocent victim and crusader for free speech.

Ah yes, "punching down" = hurt feelings = death.

Oh what would the liberals of old, the true, say if they could see how their ideology has gangrened. Oof.

[Vassenor]

Then again it's pretty much accepted in this country that if you don't spend every breath explicitly and vehemently calling all Muslims evil you're a terrorist sympathiser.