You reap what you sow? Mass sexual assault in Germany

[Alsheb]

No, they legitimise the notion of national liberation as a justification for violence. The fact that they adhere to an Islam-inspired political ideology is not the cause of them being violent. The pioneer organisation for violent resistance in Palestine was Fatah, a movement that wasn't religiously inspired at all. Hamas or Hezbollah did not invent the concept of armed resistance.

they want national liberation for ISLAMIC REASONS.

Because no non-islamic movements ever support national liberation...

[North Calaveras]

please prove everything you just said before dropping the silly ass race card, everything I said involves religion not race, i could care less how brown someone is(my husband is mexican for gods sake).

Let's quote yourself, shall we?

"I could care less". That was your reply to my statement of a million people being massacred by US imperialism.
Not even an attempt to deny or downplay it. Just the fact that you don't care about a million Iraqis and Afghans who died under the US bootheel.

Seriously, thanks. You're making this way too easy for me.

I really don't, war is war, I never stated or implied race was a driving factor.

[Ostroeuropa]

please prove everything you just said before dropping the silly ass race card, everything I said involves religion not race, i could care less how brown someone is(my husband is mexican for gods sake).

Let's quote yourself, shall we?

"I could care less". That was your reply to my statement of a million people being massacred by US imperialism.
Not even an attempt to deny or downplay it. Just the fact that you don't care about a million Iraqis and Afghans who died under the US bootheel.

Seriously, thanks. You're making this way too easy for me.

The police use violence to apprehend violent thugs. It does not make them morally equivalent.

[North Calaveras]

they want national liberation for ISLAMIC REASONS.

Because no non-islamic movements ever support national liberation...

good for them, it dosn't change they ally themselves with brutal theocrats.

[North Calaveras]

Article 1 describes Hamas as an Islamic Resistance Movement with an ideological programme of Islam.[21]
Article 2 of Hamas' Charter defines Hamas as a "universal movement" and "one of the branches of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine".[17][21][22][23]
Article 3 the Movement consists of "Muslims who have given their allegiance to Allah".[21]
Article 4 the Movement "welcomes every Muslim who embraces its faith, ideology, follows its programme, keeps its secrets, and wants to belong to its ranks and carry out the duty."[21]
Article 5 Demonstrates its Salafist roots and connections to the Muslim brotherhood. [21]
Article 6 Hamas is uniquely Palestinian,[24] and "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned."[17][21]
Article 7 describes Hamas as "one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders" and links the movement to the followers of the religious and nationalist hero Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.[21][23]
Article 8 The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."[17][21]
Article 9 adapts Muslim Brotherhood's vision to connect the Palestinian crisis with the Islamic solution and advocates "fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail".[21]
Article 11 Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone.[21]
Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed" .[21]
Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[21]
Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[21]
Article 15 "The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim". It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is a religious problem".[21]
Article 16 Describes how to go about educating future generations.[21]
Article 20 Calls for action "by the people as a single body" against "a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people".[21]
Article 22 Makes sweeping claims about Jewish influence and power. [21][25]
Article 28 Conspiracy charges against Israel and the whole of the Jewish people: "Israel, Judaism and Jews".[21][25]
Article 31 Describes Hamas as "a humanistic movement", which "takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions". "Under the wing of Islam", it is possible for Islam, Christianity and Judaism "to coexist in peace and quiet with each other" provided that members of other religions do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region.[21]
Article 32 Hamas condemns as co-plotters the “imperialistic powers”.[25] References The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[21][26]

such freedom, such liberation

[Alsheb]

Glad to see you admit that you simply don't care about a million or more non-white human lives. Makes it so much more easier to grasp what sort of person I'm talking to. I'll keep it in mind.

Because as we all know, the west wouldn't flip it's shit and go crazy about a bunch of Japanese or South Korean people dying.
Whine about race some more, go ahead. it just reveals you don't have an argument other than SJW tactics.

The fact they aren't white is not relevant.

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

[Alsheb]

Let's quote yourself, shall we?

"I could care less". That was your reply to my statement of a million people being massacred by US imperialism.
Not even an attempt to deny or downplay it. Just the fact that you don't care about a million Iraqis and Afghans who died under the US bootheel.

Seriously, thanks. You're making this way too easy for me.

The police use violence to apprehend violent thugs. It does not make them morally equivalent.

And all Iraqis who were murdered by the US are violent thugs? Good thing the Middle East doesn't have civilians, init?

[North Calaveras]

Because as we all know, the west wouldn't flip it's shit and go crazy about a bunch of Japanese or South Korean people dying.
Whine about race some more, go ahead. it just reveals you don't have an argument other than SJW tactics.

The fact they aren't white is not relevant.

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

the US is the good guy because we don't stone people, light them on fire, or subject them to lashing and rape as a traditional practice.

[Unnamed island state]

Integrating minorities and/or social engineering is helpful.

I didn't deny as much. It simply isn't the best way to spend resources to create the problem of backward minorities by allowing them to immigrate, then throwing money and time at them until they become less backward.
Hurray!
We solved the problem we caused!

I never said we shouldn't address the root of the issue. But even if some of the refugees whose beliefs we manage to change eventually move away, that doesn't mean we've wasted our time. For example, the PKK was made up of former guestworkers who were exposed to leftism during their stay in the West. Not only will we make our own societies less problematic through integration efforts, but it could positively impact Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East if people bring Western values along with them.

[Alsheb]

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

the US is the good guy because we don't stone people, light them on fire, or subject them to lashing and rape as a traditional practice.

True enough. You just bomb the shit out of half the world and massacre civilians by the tens of thousands.
Exemplar indeed!

[North Calaveras]

The police use violence to apprehend violent thugs. It does not make them morally equivalent.

And all Iraqis who were murdered by the US are violent thugs? Good thing the Middle East doesn't have civilians, init?

the US is not TRYING to kill civilians, it just so happens to, but it's not our goal by any means.

[North Calaveras]

the US is the good guy because we don't stone people, light them on fire, or subject them to lashing and rape as a traditional practice.

True enough. You just bomb the shit out of half the world and massacre civilians by the tens of thousands.
Exemplar indeed!

Be greatful we arn't Christian crusaders who would have turned the middle east into a parking lot.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because as we all know, the west wouldn't flip it's shit and go crazy about a bunch of Japanese or South Korean people dying.
Whine about race some more, go ahead. it just reveals you don't have an argument other than SJW tactics.

The fact they aren't white is not relevant.

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

No, no it isn't fucking relevant.
The Japanese aren't christian, european, or american either. But Japan too is a free country, and it would similarly make people angry to find Japanese people killed.
You're whining about racism because you have no actual argument.

You're asking us to care just as much about culturally western free nations being attacked, and culturally backward and repressive ones being attacked.

The US wars serve a justifiable purpose.
The civilians are collateral damage.
The Islamic nonsense serves no justifiable purpose.
The civilians are the targets.

[Alsheb]

And all Iraqis who were murdered by the US are violent thugs? Good thing the Middle East doesn't have civilians, init?

the US is not TRYING to kill civilians, it just so happens to, but it's not our goal by any means.

The fact that the US upper command is accepting up to fifty civilian casualties per high-value ISIS target hit in drone strikes as "collateral damae" says enough. It's not sufficient to "not try to kill civilians on purpose", if you're actively condoning the killing of civilians as an acceptable loss, you're responsible for their deaths. The people down there who just lost half their family don't give a damn about wether or not you were actively trying to kill their parents, siblings or children. Fact is you just killed them.

[Vassenor]

I didn't deny as much. It simply isn't the best way to spend resources to create the problem of backward minorities by allowing them to immigrate, then throwing money and time at them until they become less backward.
Hurray!
We solved the problem we caused!

I never said we shouldn't solve the root of the issue. But even if some of the refugees whose beliefs we manage to change eventually move away, that could go a long way as well. For example, the PKK was made up of former guestworkers who were exposed to leftism during their stay in the West. Not only will we make our own societies less problematic through integration efforts, but it could positively impact Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East.

Problem is that we as a species are slowly becoming more and more stuck in the idea of "that's someone else's problem". Typically phrased with such witticisms as " why don't you care about America" and the like. The idea that solving problems abroad can help solve them at home is lost on some people.

[Vassenor]

the US is not TRYING to kill civilians, it just so happens to, but it's not our goal by any means.

The fact that the US upper command is accepting up to fifty civilian casualties per high-value ISIS target hit in drone strikes as "collateral damae" says enough. It's not sufficient to "not try to kill civilians on purpose", if you're actively condoning the killing of civilians as an acceptable loss, you're responsible for their deaths. The people down there who just lost half their family don't give a damn about wether or not you were actively trying to kill their parents, siblings or children. Fact is you just killed them.

Which breeds anti-US sentiment which just fuels the bonfire.

[North Calaveras]

the US is not TRYING to kill civilians, it just so happens to, but it's not our goal by any means.

The fact that the US upper command is accepting up to fifty civilian casualties per high-value ISIS target hit in drone strikes as "collateral damae" says enough. It's not sufficient to "not try to kill civilians on purpose", if you're actively condoning the killing of civilians as an acceptable loss, you're responsible for their deaths. The people down there who just lost half their family don't give a damn about wether or not you were actively trying to kill their parents, siblings or children. Fact is you just killed them.

as Americans our lives are more important, If I was an Iraqi general fighting americans I would be far more concerned about my own peoples lives, sorry, that's life.

[Alyakia]

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

No, no it isn't fucking relevant.
The Japanese aren't christian, european, or american either. But Japan too is a free country, and it would similarly make people angry to find Japanese people killed.
You're whining about racism because you have no actual argument.

You're asking us to care just as much about culturally western free nations being attacked, and culturally backward and repressive ones being attacked.

The US wars serve a justifiable purpose.
The civilians are collateral damage.
The Islamic nonsense serves no justifiable purpose.
The civilians are the targets.

US wars serve the interests of the united states. whether you say decide the economic interests of the united fruit company is more justified than muh islam is up to you.

[Vassenor]

The fact that the US upper command is accepting up to fifty civilian casualties per high-value ISIS target hit in drone strikes as "collateral damae" says enough. It's not sufficient to "not try to kill civilians on purpose", if you're actively condoning the killing of civilians as an acceptable loss, you're responsible for their deaths. The people down there who just lost half their family don't give a damn about wether or not you were actively trying to kill their parents, siblings or children. Fact is you just killed them.

as Americans our lives are more important, If I was an Iraqi general fighting americans I would be far more concerned about my own peoples lives, sorry, that's life.

And what makes an American more important than an Iraqi?

[Alyakia]

The fact that the US upper command is accepting up to fifty civilian casualties per high-value ISIS target hit in drone strikes as "collateral damae" says enough. It's not sufficient to "not try to kill civilians on purpose", if you're actively condoning the killing of civilians as an acceptable loss, you're responsible for their deaths. The people down there who just lost half their family don't give a damn about wether or not you were actively trying to kill their parents, siblings or children. Fact is you just killed them.

as Americans our lives are more important, If I was an Iraqi general fighting americans I would be far more concerned about my own peoples lives, sorry, that's life.

sometimes you need to sacrifice troops in order to better further the overall goals of the operation :^)

[North Calaveras]

as Americans our lives are more important, If I was an Iraqi general fighting americans I would be far more concerned about my own peoples lives, sorry, that's life.

And what makes an American more important than an Iraqi?

nothing, except when it comes to war.

A Iraqi general is going to go above and beyond to ensure Iraqi lives are valued over American ones

its not an american trait.

If im going into battle I care more about my countrymen than them.

[North Calaveras]

as Americans our lives are more important, If I was an Iraqi general fighting americans I would be far more concerned about my own peoples lives, sorry, that's life.

sometimes you need to sacrifice troops in order to better further the overall goals of the operation :^)

yup, there are exceptions.

[Alsheb]

The fact that they're not European, American or Christian is relevant though.
Apparently, the US is still the good guy, because at least it lets its people live "in a free country". The fact that over a million people die for it halfway across the globe is apparently an acceptable sacrifice.

No, no it isn't fucking relevant.
The Japanese aren't christian, european, or american either. But Japan too is a free country, and it would similarly make people angry to find Japanese people killed.
You're whining about racism because you have no actual argument.

You're asking us to care just as much about culturally western free nations being attacked, and culturally backward and repressive ones being attacked.

The US wars serve a justifiable purpose.
The civilians are collateral damage.
The Islamic nonsense serves no justifiable purpose.
The civilians are the targets.

And there we have it people! Civilians massacres are acceptable, collateral damage! Stop whining about your children being blown to bloody chunks of meat! It's your own fault, for not being a "culturally free western nation"!

Oh, and forget about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as well, throw it out the windows! Because everyone knows that if you're a citizen of a "backwards and repressive state", your human lives don't count as much as those of the enlightened westerner!
Your lives simply aren't as important as ours, you silly Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Yemenis, Somalians and Pakistanis. Sorry, that's just our civilised man's prerogative.

Ah, civilisation. The best term to justify barbarity.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, no it isn't fucking relevant.
The Japanese aren't christian, european, or american either. But Japan too is a free country, and it would similarly make people angry to find Japanese people killed.
You're whining about racism because you have no actual argument.

You're asking us to care just as much about culturally western free nations being attacked, and culturally backward and repressive ones being attacked.

The US wars serve a justifiable purpose.
The civilians are collateral damage.
The Islamic nonsense serves no justifiable purpose.
The civilians are the targets.

US wars serve the interests of the united states. whether you say decide the economic interests of the united fruit company is more justified than muh islam is up to you.

Winning the cold war was also a justifiable purpose. The opposition to totalitarian ideologies is sufficient justification.

You should be glad that our western governments are more moderate than I am. I would look at the cold war as a precedent justifying the invasion of countries which even have positive relations with islamic theocracies and totalitarian regimes, to install an anti-islamist government.

That would be the equivalent to what you are pointing out here.
They have not done that.
But it could justifiably be done when viewed as part of a larger war.
Collateral nations.

[North Calaveras]

No, no it isn't fucking relevant.
The Japanese aren't christian, european, or american either. But Japan too is a free country, and it would similarly make people angry to find Japanese people killed.
You're whining about racism because you have no actual argument.

You're asking us to care just as much about culturally western free nations being attacked, and culturally backward and repressive ones being attacked.

The US wars serve a justifiable purpose.
The civilians are collateral damage.
The Islamic nonsense serves no justifiable purpose.
The civilians are the targets.

And there we have it people! Civilians massacres are acceptable, collateral damage! Stop whining about your children being blown to bloody chunks of meat! It's your own fault, for not being a "culturally free western nation"!

Oh, and forget about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as well, throw it out the windows! Because everyone knows that if you're a citizen of a "backwards and repressive state", your human lives don't count as much as those of the enlightened westerner!
Your lives simply aren't as important as ours, you silly Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Yemenis, Somalians and Pakistanis. Sorry, that's just our civilised man's prerogative.

Ah, civilisation. The best term to justify barbarity.

why should I care for the life of someone who would have me and my husband hanged or lit on fire?