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[Ashmoria]

no. they would sue to get rid of whatever stupid onerous bad thing you have forced them to sign up for. white people not having to be forced to do it would be irrelevant.

They tried this and the argument was "The state has a right to draft people, and it is necessary blah." basically.
This is the next step. "Okay, so draft everyone."
But apparently you aren't fine with that and would prefer they just try the same shit that failed in the 80s.

It's like if ONLY black people paid taxes and you sued to get rid of them, the government goes
"No, because we NEED somebody to pay taxes, and the state has an absolute right to levy them."

And you go
"Well, black people aren't harmed from white people not paying, so nvm, we'll just repeatedly smash our faces into a brick wall to try and get them to abolish taxes instead."

That's ridiculous. The only reason someone would use this line of reasoning is deliberately trying to avoid admitting an institutionally sexist rule against men.

geez could you be more wrong? all I'm saying is tthat its not as easy as you think to get a case before the supreme court. MERIT doesn't get it done if there is no STANDING. lots of cases get tossed because the wrong person sued.

[Ostroeuropa]

They tried this and the argument was "The state has a right to draft people, and it is necessary blah." basically.
This is the next step. "Okay, so draft everyone."
But apparently you aren't fine with that and would prefer they just try the same shit that failed in the 80s.

It's like if ONLY black people paid taxes and you sued to get rid of them, the government goes
"No, because we NEED somebody to pay taxes, and the state has an absolute right to levy them."

And you go
"Well, black people aren't harmed from white people not paying, so nvm, we'll just repeatedly smash our faces into a brick wall to try and get them to abolish taxes instead."

That's ridiculous. The only reason someone would use this line of reasoning is deliberately trying to avoid admitting an institutionally sexist rule against men.

geez could you be more wrong? all I'm saying is tthat its not as easy as you think to get a case before the supreme court. MERIT doesn't get it done if there is no STANDING. lots of cases get tossed because the wrong person sued.

Oh. You were arguing on the technical merit? In that case, I apologize. I thought you were arguing on ethical grounds, which I should not have assumed.

[Ashmoria]

geez could you be more wrong? all I'm saying is tthat its not as easy as you think to get a case before the supreme court. MERIT doesn't get it done if there is no STANDING. lots of cases get tossed because the wrong person sued.

Oh. You were arguing on the technical merit? In that case, I apologize. I thought you were arguing on ethical grounds, which I should not have assumed.

draft registration is nothing but a bullshit way of penalizing young men who don't want to fall in line with stupid government regulations. it serves no practical purpose.

[Imperializt Russia]

Ignorant on what basis?

On the basis that it's obvious you've never been in an armored fighting vehicle and have no firsthand experience of serving in one.

I think the word you're searching for is "anecdote".

I am not ignorant, I am inexperienced. I am, however, aware of the tasks of crew, the premium of space in an armoured vehicle and the nature of warfare conditions.

[Ostroeuropa]

Oh. You were arguing on the technical merit? In that case, I apologize. I thought you were arguing on ethical grounds, which I should not have assumed.

draft registration is nothing but a bullshit way of penalizing young men who don't want to fall in line with stupid government regulations. it serves no practical purpose.

I'm not entirely convinced of that. I think there are legitimate arguments in favor of a gender-neutral draft, however, I take your point about serving no practical purpose 99.99% of the time.

Personally, I would have it so all penalties from not registering for the draft only take place once the draft is actually enacted.

"You are required to register for the draft. If you fail to do so and the draft is called, you will be fined, may be imprisoned, or drafted without pay should you be discovered to have been unregistered while the draft was in effect." etc.

This would alleviate the concern you raised, and leaves us with a draft option in the future hypothetical nightmare scenarios, but without penalizing people for useless bullshit. This would mean they only get punished for actually dodging the draft. rather than ignoring government regulatory nonsense.

[Saiwania]

draft registration is nothing but a bullshit way of penalizing young men who don't want to fall in line with stupid government regulations. it serves no practical purpose.

It enables the US military to more easily find the young men if there is an active draft and they're called up to serve. US males don't have to update their home address or any other information after they're 26 years of age. The SSS is otherwise something they register for once and then never need to think about ever again.

[Immoren]

My personal opinion is that women have no place on the frontline.
...
I do support women as scout snipers, and recon.

So which one is it?

[Imperializt Russia]

draft registration is nothing but a bullshit way of penalizing young men who don't want to fall in line with stupid government regulations. it serves no practical purpose.

I'm not entirely convinced of that. I think there are legitimate arguments in favor of a gender-neutral draft, however, I take your point about serving no practical purpose 99.99% of the time.

Personally, I would have it so all penalties from not registering for the draft only take place once the draft is actually enacted.

"You are required to register for the draft. If you fail to do so and the draft is called, you will be fined, may be imprisoned, or drafted without pay should you be discovered to have been unregistered while the draft was in effect." etc.

This would alleviate the concern you raised, and leaves us with a draft option in the future hypothetical nightmare scenarios, but without penalizing people for useless bullshit. This would mean they only get punished for actually dodging the draft. rather than ignoring government regulatory nonsense.

I think that would be a worse system, since that would surely impact more people should the draft ever have to be enacted, and also jam up government records at a time when the situation is clearly dire enough for such channels to be relatively clear.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not entirely convinced of that. I think there are legitimate arguments in favor of a gender-neutral draft, however, I take your point about serving no practical purpose 99.99% of the time.

Personally, I would have it so all penalties from not registering for the draft only take place once the draft is actually enacted.

"You are required to register for the draft. If you fail to do so and the draft is called, you will be fined, may be imprisoned, or drafted without pay should you be discovered to have been unregistered while the draft was in effect." etc.

This would alleviate the concern you raised, and leaves us with a draft option in the future hypothetical nightmare scenarios, but without penalizing people for useless bullshit. This would mean they only get punished for actually dodging the draft. rather than ignoring government regulatory nonsense.

I think that would be a worse system, since that would surely impact more people should the draft ever have to be enacted, and also jam up government records at a time when the situation is clearly dire enough for such channels to be relatively clear.

*shrug*
change it to "May be fined, imprisoned, or drafted without pay" and it'll just allow them to enforce as and when there are resources available or selectively in a few key cases.
Drafted without pay as a punishment also works.

It would also provide the ancillary benefit of allowing the state to monitor public panic and hysteria.

[Ashmoria]

draft registration is nothing but a bullshit way of penalizing young men who don't want to fall in line with stupid government regulations. it serves no practical purpose.

It enables the US military to more easily find the young men if there is an active draft and they're called up to serve. US males don't have to update their home address or any other information after they're 26 years of age. The SSS is otherwise something they register for once and then never need to think about ever again.

the government already knows who everyone is and where they live.

[Ostroeuropa]

It enables the US military to more easily find the young men if there is an active draft and they're called up to serve. US males don't have to update their home address or any other information after they're 26 years of age. The SSS is otherwise something they register for once and then never need to think about ever again.

the government already knows who everyone is and where they live.

That sounds sinister.
It isn't, but it sounds it.

"I know where you live."

[Imperial City-States]

On the basis that it's obvious you've never been in an armored fighting vehicle and have no firsthand experience of serving in one.

I think the word you're searching for is "anecdote".

I am not ignorant, I am inexperienced. I am, however, aware of the tasks of crew, the premium of space in an armoured vehicle and the nature of warfare conditions.

Either way,

The amount of physical labor that goes into supporting, let alone operating in a 'Heavy' unit Is beyond that which most women in my experience are capable of doing as effectively as men. And that doesn't even involve being a Crew Member. I am a Dismounted FO (run around with an Infantry Platoon) and have little to do with my Parent Platoons Bradley's , however I'm still required to work on them. And until you've had to move 2,000 rounds of 25mm ammunition in one afternoon. Or change track in the mud. Or have to rip out an entire radio system because of faulty wiring. As much as you may read about a task, you have no perception of what it entails until you do it yourself.

I have no desire to bleed to death because a female soldier can't drag me to safety in the event I'm wounded

[Imperializt Russia]

I probably couldn't drag you to safety if you were wounded and I have a penis, so what?

[Uxupox]

I probably couldn't drag you to safety if you were wounded and I have a penis, so what?

Then obviously you aren't suited for either a field combat MOS. Draging a 100+lb dummy with equipment is a regular pre-deployment exercise that we do and if you can't do that then you aren't going nowhere specifically not downrange.

[Imperial City-States]

I probably couldn't drag you to safety if you were wounded and I have a penis, so what?

That's my point though.

You're incapable of doing so.

99.9% of females are incapable of doing so.
That .1% should get the chance yes, but only if they preform on a Male standard.

[Ayreonia]

On the basis that it's obvious you've never been in an armored fighting vehicle and have no firsthand experience of serving in one.

I think the word you're searching for is "anecdote".

I am not ignorant, I am inexperienced. I am, however, aware of the tasks of crew, the premium of space in an armoured vehicle and the nature of warfare conditions.

Call it what you will. You being aware doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about a lot of things you deliver as truth.

[Imperializt Russia]

I think the word you're searching for is "anecdote".

I am not ignorant, I am inexperienced. I am, however, aware of the tasks of crew, the premium of space in an armoured vehicle and the nature of warfare conditions.

Call it what you will. You being aware doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about a lot of things you deliver as truth.

I think you've greatly misinterpreted my posts if that is your opinion.

[Ayreonia]

Call it what you will. You being aware doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about a lot of things you deliver as truth.

I think you've greatly misinterpreted my posts if that is your opinion.

Sure.

[Imperial City-States]

To quote every Sergeant Major that has exsisted.

"Standards and fucking discipline"

[Imperializt Russia]

I think you've greatly misinterpreted my posts if that is your opinion.

Sure.

Critically, I have never denied the average woman is weaker than the average man, and I stated that outright this page or last.
I don't believe the difference matters.

The failing is for people to fall back on "average" and then apply it to everyone and say "this means women shouldn't join combat". Which is silly at best. There are short guys in combat MOS who are proportionally weaker; there are (comparatively) generally weak guys in combat MOS. Not weaklings like me, I belong in combat support at my current level of fitness.

The infantryman's physique has always been closer to an endurance runner than a weightlifter tbh. Remember that substantial muscle definition that we associate with soldier culture today has only really been possible and widespread since the seventies or eighties.

[New Finnish Republic]

The Marines already found that coed combat teams do not perform as well as single sex male teams. Females, on average, are physically inferior to males. I see this first hand with the Guard. There's a reason why women's physical requirements are half of what males are. As an infantryman, I don't want females serving in combat roles. Now should they be able to serve in other aspects of the military? I say yes.

[Ashmoria]

the government already knows who everyone is and where they live.

That sounds sinister.
It isn't, but it sounds it.

"I know where you live."

its freaky. my son didn't register as soon as he turned 18 and some time later --a year or so--they sent a form with everything already filled in except our phone number. why did he need to register at all? (I signed his name and sent it in)

[Ashmoria]

I probably couldn't drag you to safety if you were wounded and I have a penis, so what?

That's my point though.

You're incapable of doing so.

99.9% of females are incapable of doing so.
That .1% should get the chance yes, but only if they preform on a Male standard.

wtf does that have to do with registering for the draft?

we have no draft and if we did and if we then drafted women too they wouldn't be put into jobs they cant do.

[Imperializt Russia]

That sounds sinister.
It isn't, but it sounds it.

"I know where you live."

its freaky. my son didn't register as soon as he turned 18 and some time later --a year or so--they sent a form with everything already filled in except our phone number. why did he need to register at all? (I signed his name and sent it in)

Don't you think it would be highly improper for the state to simply announce you were conscripted?
Giving you the input, even literally adding a phone number and signature to a form, makes it slightly more fair than it could otherwise be.

[Galloism]

That sounds sinister.
It isn't, but it sounds it.

"I know where you live."

its freaky. my son didn't register as soon as he turned 18 and some time later --a year or so--they sent a form with everything already filled in except our phone number. why did he need to register at all? (I signed his name and sent it in)

Wow. Forgery.