Militia Cleanup: Did you say take away their kids?

[Ashmoria]

this is Monday. it'll probably be over by 5 so that the "freedom fighters" can get home in time for wheel of fortune.

[Vassenor]

I may sympathize with their position, but by all accounts there's every reason to be suspicious of this, as agent provocateurs are a pretty common tactic or TPTB.

People are pissed, all someone needs to do is tap into that anger and they'll get a response. Yes, the Feds are overstepping their bounds, but methinks we're too far gone for any peaceful change to happen at this point. I hope I'm wrong but you gotta expect the worst.

By all accounts this could be a way for the feds to make militias look bad, or perhaps these guys are just misguided. The Bundy kid might just be trying to make a martyr out of himself too, I dunno.

How is the government overstepping its authority?

[Kauthar]

Good. People should rise up all over America against their oppressive government. These people are true patriots, god bless their souls.

[Sucrati]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

[Vassenor]

Good. People should rise up all over America against their oppressive government. These people are true patriots, god bless their souls.

How is the American government oppressive? Aside from expecting people to actually, you know, obey the law.

[Kauthar]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

[Vassenor]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

How has the government committed treason?

[Tekeristan]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

Which rights are they standing up for right now?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

They've not committed treason, that's for sure, but their acts are seditious. If not, it's a case of domestic terrorism, but they've done something illegal at least.

The US government is not capable of committing treason.

[Kauthar]

Good. People should rise up all over America against their oppressive government. These people are true patriots, god bless their souls.

How is the American government oppressive? Aside from expecting people to actually, you know, obey the law.

Gee I don't know, maybe having a mass surveillance system, signing laws to take away their citizen's guns (their only way of fighting against tyrannical governments) and prosecuting whistleblowers/patriots like Edward Snowden who expose the truth about their tyrannical government.

[Imperializt Russia]

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

How has the government committed treason?

90% sure a government can't commit treason, since it can only commit it against itself.

[Vassenor]

signing laws to take away their citizen's guns (their only way of fighting against tyrannical governments)

[citation needed]

[Alvecia]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

Yeah! They're upholding the Constitution by....breaking....the law....?

[Tekeristan]

How is the American government oppressive? Aside from expecting people to actually, you know, obey the law.

Gee I don't know, maybe having a mass surveillance system, signing laws to take away their citizen's guns (their only way of fighting against tyrannical governments) and prosecuting whistleblowers/patriots like Edward Snowden who expose the truth about their tyrannical government.

Ah yes, the mighty, democratic, representative hivemind.

[Vassenor]

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

Yeah! They're upholding the Constitution by....breaking....the law....?

A constitution that they have stated they do not recognise.

[Haktiva]

I may sympathize with their position, but by all accounts there's every reason to be suspicious of this, as agent provocateurs are a pretty common tactic or TPTB.

People are pissed, all someone needs to do is tap into that anger and they'll get a response. Yes, the Feds are overstepping their bounds, but methinks we're too far gone for any peaceful change to happen at this point. I hope I'm wrong but you gotta expect the worst.

By all accounts this could be a way for the feds to make militias look bad, or perhaps these guys are just misguided. The Bundy kid might just be trying to make a martyr out of himself too, I dunno.

How is the government overstepping its authority?

Well there's a lot of places where(1st Amendment restrictions, 2nd Amendment infringement, loss of rights to due process, not to mention the kill lists)

In this instance, they're arguing that the federal government only has the right to manage land that includes the area of DC and around military bases. Anything other than that is supposed to belong to the States. However, this issue(pertaining to the Property Clause, known as Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2 of the Constitution) has been debated for a while.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause

My personal stance on it is that such lands not explicitly stated for the feds to own should be given over to the state governments, which is a sentiment shared by a lot of these people. However, Hammond's little stunt has made the militias into an aggressor, and hence they've lost the moral high ground.

[Alsheb]

Which would probably be a better solution to the growing problem of these "Patriot" nutjobs.

Yea the possible death of millions is a "better solution" than diplomacy.

I highly doubt that something like this could lead to the "death of millions". Nor do I believe there is much diplomacy possible with people like the Bundy gangs.

[Alvecia]

Yeah! They're upholding the Constitution by....breaking....the law....?

A constitution that they have stated they do not recognise.

Oh

Yeah! They're upholding doing the Constitution thing by....breaking....the law....?

Fixed?

[Alsheb]

To the situation in Oregon. I'll be one of the first people to disagree with the methods of those who invaded the Federal Wildlife Area. To me, that appears to be an act of armed aggression against the Federal Government. They should be put down accordingly. Whether that's via armed means or charging each and every one of them with treason and sedition, they don't deserve to get off easy.

There are PEACEFUL means to go about this. That does NOT include using arms or threatening those who approach with violence.

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

They're invading natural wildlife preserves to demand that loggers and miners come in and destroy the friggin' forest.
How the hell can you describe that as "standing up for the constitution"?

[Risottia]

What really makes me wonder is the difference in approach here.

If you're a black kid wielding a toy firearm in a public park, the police will kill you on the spot and the judiciary will confirm that the killing was lawful.
If you're a heavily-armed group of militiamen occupying a federal building, the police will just kindly wait for you to get bored and go home.

[Asherahan]

How has the government committed treason?

90% sure a government can't commit treason, since it can only commit it against itself.

Can a government commit suicide?

[Ashmoria]

How is the American government oppressive? Aside from expecting people to actually, you know, obey the law.

Gee I don't know, maybe having a mass surveillance system, signing laws to take away their citizen's guns (their only way of fighting against tyrannical governments) and prosecuting whistleblowers/patriots like Edward Snowden who expose the truth about their tyrannical government.

what does that have to do with a wildlife reserve in Oregon?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

How has the government committed treason?

90% sure a government can't commit treason, since it can only commit it against itself.

And even if that happened, the people in charge (president, secretaries, so on) would be charged with treason. The governing body itself, the state, in incapable of committing treason, or sedition.

[Trumpostan]

Where are the trigger happy cops? Oh wait... my bad...

Anyway, these terrorists need to be dealt with.

[Haktiva]

They're not committing treason their government already has, they're standing up for the constitution and the rights of the citizens of America.

They're invading natural wildlife preserves to demand that loggers and miners come in and destroy the friggin' forest.
How the hell can you describe that as "standing up for the constitution"?

it's a matter of private property and state sovereignty, mostly.