Is fascism a negative thing?

[Atelia]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

[Conserative Morality]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

While the meaning of the term is damaged by its usage as a pejorative, it's certainly not great.

[Kraslavia]

Fascism? Yes, it is bad, as any hiper-centralized system. But that doesn't mean that even fascism or proto-fascism didn't have some good ideas. I'm not against corporatized or syndicalized society. I think that D'Anuzzio's experiment in Carnaro was pretty good. Biggest problems of fascism are hipernationalism and lack of democracy. One party, one man rule never can be good.

On argue if Hitler was socialist. To some point yes. In pure economical terms III Reich was quite socialist but not economicak terms made them mass murders. Nationalism and rascism done that.

[Radiatia]

Incorrect. The NSDAP was never a socialist party in the traditional sense of the term and pre-WW1 Hitler belonged to no socialist movements. Mussolini, on the other hand, did belong to socialist movements before the First World War.

Not really.

That's so far removed from reality I don't even know where to begin.

“If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.”

-Munich, 1920

and also

“What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish we shall be in a position to achieve.”

Even more here: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 86455.html

Sounds pretty socialistic to me.

Okay, yup, I can see where you've become confused, and Conservative Morality has tried to correct you, although I don't think you've quite understood the point that was being made.

There are three things you need to know:

1. Nationalism socialism and fascism are not the same thing. They are very similar, and in practice are the same, but they developed from different ideological and historical roots. Of the two, it actually fascism that bears the most resemblance to socialism, as it sought complete state control of the means of production - which is what socialism is. (The Nazis had two factions - the radicals, who sought the same level of socialist state control, and the conservatives, who believed that they should work with the capitalists on the common ground of anti-Marxism. Hitler was balanced between the two and allowed for some private enterprise on the condition that it was beneficial to goals of the Nazis. They're called national socialists because they have their roots in Prussian Socialism, which was concerned more with ending the class system than seizing the means of production)

2. Fascism and National Socialism did not want to "make everyone equal" as socialists and communists did. In fact they wanted the opposite - an unequal society with the "strong" or "racially pure" at the top and the "weak" or "impure" at the bottom, preferably dead. Where socialists wanted a classless society, fascists and national socialists wanted a society where traditional classes were replaced by "rank" as engineered by the state. They also sought to end class warfare by forcing workers and employers to jointly control the economy - as opposed to socialism, in which the workers control it and capitalism in which the employers control it.

3. Therefore, in terms of the actual economics, fascism/national socialism and socialism are virtually the same thing with respect to the state controlling the means of production - although socialists are more inclined to simply expropriate the means of production, rather than seek a joint model of control as fascists do. In that sense I'd agree with you that all three systems should be avoided, but it's important to understand the differences of intent and differences in practice.

[Ifreann]

Fascism? Yes, as any hiper-centralized system. But that doesn't mean that even fascism or proto-fascism didn't have some good ideas. I'm not against corporatized or syndicalized society. I think that D'Anuzzio's experiment in Carnaro was pretty good. Biggest problems of fascism are hipernationalism and lack of democracy. One party, one man rule never can be good.

Hyper.

[Conscentia]

[...] as it sought complete state control of the means of production - which is what socialism is. [...]

That is not what socialism is.

[Atelia]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

While the meaning of the term is damaged by its usage as a pejorative, it's certainly not great.

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes. It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy. It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

[Ifreann]

While the meaning of the term is damaged by its usage as a pejorative, it's certainly not great.

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes. It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy. It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

All I heard was "Internet Tough Guy SMASH"

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The answer to this question lays in the annals of recent history. Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain, Hitler's Germany. Yes, it is a negative ideology in application.

[Greater Phoenicia]

Authoritarianism isn't the issue, you can be a literal Absolute Monarchy and still be a fantastic government that is fair. Power isn't the problem, it's how it's used and that is where fascism is ultimately inferior as a form of government or ideology. It leads to wars that could be avoided, general fear in the population rather than respect which causes inefficiency and surprising amounts of disloyalty to a state that couldn't care less for their life, as well as the fact that fascists always lose. It's a fact. There's been no fascist governments that didn't get overthrown or defeated.

[Atelia]

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes. It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy. It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

All I heard was "Internet Tough Guy SMASH"

What ever, I stated my opinion, I can move on.

[Conscentia]

While the meaning of the term is damaged by its usage as a pejorative, it's certainly not great.

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes. It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy. It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

If that is your notion of the 'greater good', then I will gladly side with evil.

[Conserative Morality]

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes.

The fact that you see fascism as primarily reactionary reflects a very real problem in and of itself.

The Fascist State is, however, a unique and original creation. It is not reactionary but revolutionary, for it anticipates the solution of certain universal problems which have been raised elsewhere, in the political field by the splitting up of parties, the usurpation of power by parliaments, the irresponsibility of assemblies; in the economic field by the increasingly numerous and important functions discharged by trade unions and trade associations with their disputes and ententes, affecting both capital and labor; in the ethical field by the need felt for order, discipline, obedience to the moral dictates of patriotism.

It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy.

Fascism desires the State to be strong and organic, based on broad foundations of popular support.

Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number; but it is the purest form of democracy if the nation be considered as it should be from the point of view of quality rather than quantity, as an idea, the mightiest because the most ethical, the most coherent, the truest, expressing itself in a people as the conscience and will of the few, if not, indeed, of one, and ending to express itself in the conscience and the will of the mass, of the whole group ethnically molded by natural and historical conditions into a nation, advancing, as one conscience and one will, along the self same line of development and spiritual formation. Not a race, nor a geographically defined region, but a people, historically perpetuating itself; a multitude unified by an idea and imbued with the will to live, the will to power, self-consciousness, personality.

It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

Fascism in the only sense worth using applies to a very... unique and complex ideology that arose in the post-war era as a response to both socialist and liberal thought of the time. There are branches and surviving schools of thought, but really, you can be a jackbooted thug without being a fascist, and you can be a jackbooted thug and still a degenerate in the eyes of fascists. I've had fascist friends and frequently fascist forums in the past. It's nothing so simple as you portray.

[BPSR]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

You just insulted yourself there.

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

You just insulted yourself there.

Not really, being Gay is fine but it's used as an insult too.

[Atelia]

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes.

The fact that you see fascism as primarily reactionary reflects a very real problem in and of itself.

The Fascist State is, however, a unique and original creation. It is not reactionary but revolutionary, for it anticipates the solution of certain universal problems which have been raised elsewhere, in the political field by the splitting up of parties, the usurpation of power by parliaments, the irresponsibility of assemblies; in the economic field by the increasingly numerous and important functions discharged by trade unions and trade associations with their disputes and ententes, affecting both capital and labor; in the ethical field by the need felt for order, discipline, obedience to the moral dictates of patriotism.

It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy.

Fascism desires the State to be strong and organic, based on broad foundations of popular support.

Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number; but it is the purest form of democracy if the nation be considered as it should be from the point of view of quality rather than quantity, as an idea, the mightiest because the most ethical, the most coherent, the truest, expressing itself in a people as the conscience and will of the few, if not, indeed, of one, and ending to express itself in the conscience and the will of the mass, of the whole group ethnically molded by natural and historical conditions into a nation, advancing, as one conscience and one will, along the self same line of development and spiritual formation. Not a race, nor a geographically defined region, but a people, historically perpetuating itself; a multitude unified by an idea and imbued with the will to live, the will to power, self-consciousness, personality.

It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

Fascism in the only sense worth using applies to a very... unique and complex ideology that arose in the post-war era as a response to both socialist and liberal thought of the time. There are branches and surviving schools of thought, but really, you can be a jackbooted thug without being a fascist, and you can be a jackbooted thug and still a degenerate in the eyes of fascists. I've had fascist friends and frequently fascist forums in the past. It's nothing so simple as you portray.

Yes Reactionary at the time may not have been the word but it's very definition it can effectively be applied to refer to any previous point in history, something a traditionalist like me would do rather then call it Revolutionary which it also is.

True Fascism is for the people, I merely use democracy to refer to the current political system in practice.

It's not so simple. A thug is a degenerate, a true upstanding citizen should be honorable and courageous like a knight. But this is something that is ultimately to be determined on a local level according to a nations culture.

[The Grey Wolf]

Fascism is undoubtedly flawed with it's ultra-nationalism and contempt for all "foreign influence," but it's primarily a positive force built on class collaboration, national rebirth, and a conception of the State with a notable philosophical pedigree.

[Raventsvo]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

Are you enjoying the 5th grade?

[Anollasia]

I don't like fascism, but I don't call things/people I don't like fascist.

[Atelia]

You may think so, but it is a reactionary front against the growing devastation of the Liberal hordes. It is an ideology of Might makes Right and Violence that does not temper itself with Democracy or Empathy. It teaches and applauds the true virtues of discipline to make the people the best that they can be, culling the weak for the greater good.

If that is your notion of the 'greater good', then I will gladly side with evil.

So be it. The Liberals amaze with being able to equate Natural Selection with Evil.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes Reactionary at the time may not have been the word but it's very definition it can effectively be applied to refer to any previous point in history, something a traditionalist like me would do rather then call it Revolutionary which it also is.

True Fascism is for the people, I merely use democracy to refer to the current political system in practice.

It's not so simple. A thug is a degenerate, a true upstanding citizen should be honorable and courageous like a knight. But this is something that is ultimately to be determined on a local level according to a nations culture.

Now you're sounding more like the anti-materialistic militarists I used to listen to get into knock-down drag-out philosophical fights all the time.

[Conscentia]

I don't like fascism, but I don't call things/people I don't like fascist.

What if they actually are fascist?

[Conserative Morality]

So be it. The Liberals amaze with being able to equate Natural Selection with Evil.

Natural selection hella inefficient. As my friend, a Bio major, always says, "Evolution is not goal-oriented"

Usually he says this after talking about birds eating one another.

[Anollasia]

I don't like fascism, but I don't call things/people I don't like fascist.

What if they actually are fascist?

Only if they say they're fascist. I meant I don't use it as an insult.

[Atelia]

Fascism is great, that's why I'm a fascist. It's simply used as an insult to degrade its meaning and apply a taboo of sorts in an attempt of suppression.

Are you enjoying the 5th grade?

That's nice. What, have you been molded to believe that people who are actually fascist today don't really exist, and that those beliefs could only catch on among frustrated children who don't know better? Huh, interesting how me and my friends seem to disprove this idea.