Left-Wing Discussion Thread

[Zudril]

He did, however, experience revolutionary Catalonia, so he knows what such a place is like.

And the only reason that fell was because of Fascist forces.

He was also conveniently absent when Catalonia was conquered.

[Pandeeria]

We do this by agitating in the third world. Many in Africa and Asia have never heard nor read on Marx, Engels, or other socialist thinkers.

Many of them aren't even literate. How exactly is this going to be changed with "agitation"?

It isn't going to be changed.

Y'know team, I think we may have already lost for now.

[Minzerland II]

Why? This isn't causing a major change of attitude, condition or otherwise. If it is so insignificant to be negligible, then it isn't really all that 'revolutionary'.

Yes it is still revolutionary, just in the most petty sense possible.

Why?

[United Marxist Nations]

Orwell was a butthurt traitor. Remember, he served as an informant to the British government. He wrote about things he largely knew little about.

Stalin was the greater butt hurt traitor, not giving out those factories to the workers.

Again, I encourage you to actually study Stalin by reading memoirs of those who were close to him. The fact of the matter, is that most of the Stalin clique continued to be loyal to Stalin, and proclaim him a socialist, long after it became unacceptable to.

[Mattopilos]

He did, however, experience revolutionary Catalonia, so he knows what such a place is like.
"It was the first time I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags or with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and café had an inscription saying that it had been collectivised; even the bootblacks had been collectivised and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal."

And the only reason that fell was because of Fascist forces.

And Stalinist forces.

Basically dicatatorships. Who knew authoritarian figures hated individualistic societies?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Bitch please, Orwell was beast and everyone knows it.

Orwell was a homophobe though.

So.... I don't give a fuck.
He didn't lynch anyone for it.

[Zudril]

So, a single political structure?

As I said, there wasn't a single union - there were several. They just collaborated on certain things, such as bringing all the militia together to form an actual army.

Sounds dangerously close to how the government functions.

[Mattopilos]

He did, however, experience revolutionary Catalonia, so he knows what such a place is like.

And the only reason that fell was because of Fascist forces.

He was also conveniently absent when Catalonia was conquered.

That doesn't defeat my point.

[Kubra]

>tfw LWDT is roasting one of your favourite authors...

(Image)

aw everybody say a lot of things about a lot of authors
Dostoevsky was even kookier than the kooky Russian nobility he wrote about but hey he's a good read

[Bojikami]

We do this by agitating in the third world. Many in Africa and Asia have never heard nor read on Marx, Engels, or other socialist thinkers.

Many of them aren't even literate. How exactly is this going to be changed with "agitation"?

This is how the west maintains control. By keeping them illiterate and unable to learn about Marx and Engels. We as socialists should promote literacy amongst Africans and Asians in so that we can educate these people on socialism and inspire them to finally throw off the chains of imperialism.

[United Marxist Nations]

So, a single political structure?

As I said, there wasn't a single union - there were several. They just collaborated on certain things, such as bringing all the militia together to form an actual army.

>UNIFIED
>SOCIALIST
>PARTY
>OF CATALONIA
WAS NEITHER UNIFIED, NOR SOCIALIST, NOR A PARTY, NOR WAS IT IN CATALONIA

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

>tfw LWDT is roasting one of your favourite authors...

(Image)

aw everybody say a lot of things about a lot of authors
Dostoevsky was even kookier than the kooky Russian nobility he wrote about but hey he's a good read

I heard he was pretty good.

[Kubra]

He did, however, experience revolutionary Catalonia, so he knows what such a place is like.

And the only reason that fell was because of Fascist forces.

He was also conveniently absent when Catalonia was conquered.

is there a problem with getting out of Dodge when things go sideways

[Zudril]

Many of them aren't even literate. How exactly is this going to be changed with "agitation"?

It isn't going to be changed.

Y'know team, I think we may have already lost for now.

Socialism had it's chance and failed. I recommend all socialists to find a new, relevent ideology.

[Minzerland II]

Bitch please, Orwell was beast and everyone knows it.

Orwell was a homophobe though.

Which was common during the time period.

[Pandeeria]

Stalin was the greater butt hurt traitor, not giving out those factories to the workers.

Again, I encourage you to actually study Stalin by reading memoirs of those who were close to him. The fact of the matter, is that most of the Stalin clique continued to be loyal to Stalin, and proclaim him a socialist, long after it became unacceptable to.

Probably because they genuinely fell for the propaganda that Stalin was such a beast hero God. After all, the politicians that actually thought for themselves and realized the revolution was betrayed were, well, they were kinda being sent to the Gulag.

[Mattopilos]

As I said, there wasn't a single union - there were several. They just collaborated on certain things, such as bringing all the militia together to form an actual army.

Sounds dangerously close to how the government functions.

Yeah, I heard the government loves letting the workers own the means of production. Oh, and they just love unions being in charge! /sarc

[Trotskylvania]

The Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia i.e. the unions.

What makes that not a state?

The Spanish Revolution was a situation of dual power, with very complicated, fuzzy and constantly shifting balance between the government of the Spanish Republic itself, and the CNT-FAI.

Calling the CNT's federal structure a state is stupid, because the Spanish Republic still existed, and the two groups had conflicting goals and methods. The CNT collaborated in the Republican government in the name of the anti-fascist struggle while simultaneously trying to implement it's mass line. This included dissolving institutions of state power within the areas they collectivized, and substituting participatory democratic administration. But their militias also were part of the chain of command of the Republican military, as were the International Brigades, and the militias of other parties and unions like the POUM.

[Zudril]

He was also conveniently absent when Catalonia was conquered.

is there a problem with getting out of Dodge when things go sideways

There's a problem with his convenient ignorance of why these anarchist communes have a bad history of getting conquered.

[Kubra]

aw everybody say a lot of things about a lot of authors
Dostoevsky was even kookier than the kooky Russian nobility he wrote about but hey he's a good read

I heard he was pretty good.

Dostoevsky sucks as a person and his anti-catholicism verged on ridiculous
No reason not to read him tho

[Zudril]

What makes that not a state?

The Spanish Revolution was a situation of dual power, with very complicated, fuzzy and constantly shifting balance between the government of the Spanish Republic itself, and the CNT-FAI.

Calling the CNT's federal structure a state is stupid, because the Spanish Republic still existed, and the two groups had conflicting goals and methods. The CNT collaborated in the Republican government in the name of the anti-fascist struggle while simultaneously trying to implement it's mass line. This included dissolving institutions of state power within the areas they collectivized, and substituting participatory democratic administration. But their militias also were part of the chain of command of the Republican military, as were the International Brigades, and the militias of other parties and unions like the POUM.

It is possible for a state to exist within a state; when a rebel militia waltz into town, drags people out of their homes and executes them on the spot, and forbids anyone else from doing so, that is a state.

[Mattopilos]

What makes that not a state?

The Spanish Revolution was a situation of dual power, with very complicated, fuzzy and constantly shifting balance between the government of the Spanish Republic itself, and the CNT-FAI.

Calling the CNT's federal structure a state is stupid, because the Spanish Republic still existed, and the two groups had conflicting goals and methods. The CNT collaborated in the Republican government in the name of the anti-fascist struggle while simultaneously trying to implement it's mass line. This included dissolving institutions of state power within the areas they collectivized, and substituting participatory democratic administration. But their militias also were part of the chain of command of the Republican military, as were the International Brigades, and the militias of other parties and unions like the POUM.

Essentially. They worked together on certain things, but they were still trying to have more influence than other unions around them.

[Bakery Hill]

As I said, there wasn't a single union - there were several. They just collaborated on certain things, such as bringing all the militia together to form an actual army.

>UNIFIED
>SOCIALIST
>PARTY
>OF CATALONIA
WAS NEITHER UNIFIED, NOR SOCIALIST, NOR A PARTY, NOR WAS IT IN CATALONIA

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING.

The PSUC was a different faction, it wasn't anarchist and wasn't part of the CNT-FAI, although they did collaborate together in... a power sharing government? Yeah.

[Pandeeria]

Orwell was a homophobe though.

Which was common during the time period.

Just because it was common for the period doesn't make it any les reprehensible or bad.

[Kubra]

is there a problem with getting out of Dodge when things go sideways

There's a problem with his convenient ignorance of why these anarchist communes have a bad history of getting conquered.

man he didn't even technically run with the anarchos
His group got offed before the total collapse of the Republican front, he got out cuz he would literally die if he stayed