Left-Wing Discussion Thread

[Bhikkustan]

That is treading dangerously close to apologism for a certain candidate. They're both equally as terrible.

At least from my ideological and political points of view.

I've seen many Americans say that, yet none justify it.

Just from a perspective of her neo-colonial attitude to Africa and she makes for coups than a pigeon.

I've seen many Americans say that, yet none justify it.

They're both bourgeois, though Clinton seems a lot more interventionist in foreign affairs and Neoliberal. And both seem really fucking shitty on personal liberties.

It's kinda like arguing if the piece of shit covered in blue sprinkles tastes better than the piece of shit covered in red sprinkles. They're both sprinkles; they're both shit.

Best way I have see it summarised really.

[Zostra]

That is treading dangerously close to apologism for a certain candidate. They're both equally as terrible.

At least from my ideological and political points of view.

I've seen many Americans say that, yet none justify it.

This. I didn't expect Hillary to move America forward that much, but at least she wouldn't have set it back for decades. A Supreme Court controlled by Trump appointees means halting or rolling back federal healthcare, education, LGBT rights, drug decriminalization, labor laws, etc for 20 to 30 years.

[Daburuetchi]

I've seen many Americans say that, yet none justify it.

They're both bourgeois, though Clinton seems a lot more interventionist in foreign affairs and Neoliberal. And both seem really fucking shitty on personal liberties.

It's kinda like arguing if the piece of shit covered in blue sprinkles tastes better than the piece of shit covered in red sprinkles. They're both sprinkles; they're both shit.

Yeah but at least under Clinton you wouldn't die because you don't have healthcare or live in extreme poverty when Trump's tariff and tax plan explodes. She also dosent west to give nukes to freaking Saudi Arabia

[United Marxist Nations]

They're both bourgeois, though Clinton seems a lot more interventionist in foreign affairs and Neoliberal. And both seem really fucking shitty on personal liberties.

It's kinda like arguing if the piece of shit covered in blue sprinkles tastes better than the piece of shit covered in red sprinkles. They're both sprinkles; they're both shit.

Yeah but at least under Clinton you wouldn't die because you don't have healthcare or live in extreme poverty when Trump's tariff and tax plan explodes. She also dosent west to give nukes to freaking Saudi Arabia

No, she just wants to deal with Saudi Arabia's enemies the old fashioned way, by bombing them to smithereens, just like she did Gaddafi.

[Daburuetchi]

Yeah but at least under Clinton you wouldn't die because you don't have healthcare or live in extreme poverty when Trump's tariff and tax plan explodes. She also dosent west to give nukes to freaking Saudi Arabia

No, she just wants to deal with Saudi Arabia's enemies the old fashioned way, by bombing them to smithereens, just like she did Gaddafi.

Better than nuclear proliferation.

[United Marxist Nations]

No, she just wants to deal with Saudi Arabia's enemies the old fashioned way, by bombing them to smithereens, just like she did Gaddafi.

Better than nuclear proliferation.

I don't agree. I think nuclear proliferation will serve as a way to prevent wars.

[Kubra]

Oh yeah, just saiyan, yesterday was the 18th of Brumaire.
Coincidence?

[Korouse]

Given Trump's stated agenda thus far can we please cut the bullshit about this equivalency thing please? They really aren't just as bad as one another.

That is treading dangerously close to apologism for a certain candidate. They're both equally as terrible.

At least from my ideological and political points of view.

No, they are most definitely not equally as terrible. The status quo is much more preferable to a right-wing nationalist reactionary government.

[Daburuetchi]

Better than nuclear proliferation.

I don't agree. I think nuclear proliferation will serve as a way to prevent wars.

Kissinger is that you? It's dangerous enough as it is knowing Trump has his fingers on the big red button. I'd rather not have a nuclear escalation in the middle east or the Asia pacific.

[Daburuetchi]

Oh yeah, just saiyan, yesterday was the 18th of Brumaire.
Coincidence?

First time a vegetable alien second time a farcical discount Frieza

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Pls make that so. Heart attack is fine, assassination better.

No. Unacceptable, especially as you've been in trouble for advocating violence already.

*** 3-Day Ban For Wishing Death ***

[Pandeeria]

That is treading dangerously close to apologism for a certain candidate. They're both equally as terrible.

At least from my ideological and political points of view.

No, they are most definitely not equally as terrible. The status quo is much more preferable to a right-wing nationalist reactionary government.

You're saying Clinton isn't a right-wing reactionary nationalist? lol

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Given Trump's stated agenda thus far can we please cut the bullshit about this equivalency thing please? They really aren't just as bad as one another.

That is treading dangerously close to apologism for a certain candidate. They're both equally as terrible.

At least from my ideological and political points of view.

From your point of view. If you're LGBT or getting healthcare courtesy of the Affordable Care Act or an immigrant or a Muslim though, there is no such equivalency. And that's the thing. It's wonderful that you're in the position where neither one would affect you that much. You're very lucky. Now stand back and think about other people for a change.

[Kubra]

Oh yeah, just saiyan, yesterday was the 18th of Brumaire.
Coincidence?

First time a vegetable alien second time a farcical discount Frieza

first as farce, then as farce

[Pandeeria]

On a side note, can anyone refresh me again on what's the point of actually being a Communist and being politically self-aware?

Literally all around me, all I hear are people rather celebrating that their bourgeois idol Trump won the election, or pissy that their bourgeois idol Clinton lost the election (even if she got the popular vote). It seems as if so many people are preoccupied with the election and current status quo, never really grasping that things on a fundamental level can change to be better than what they are right now. Furthermore, I hope we can realistically agree that we will never see a worker's revolt in the first world in our life time. That's assuming it ever happens, and seeing what is currently happening with the general public it's kinda killing my hopes of it ever happening. And even then, with the introduction of new technologies, spying, ultra-militarized police, more and more advanced forms of propaganda and indoctrinatory education I doubt far-leftist thinking will flourish even if things get worse from a material perspective. I see on the internet all the time of stories of people adopting Communist thinking, yet in my day to day life this has had absolutely zero effect; it has made zero difference.

So can anyone refresh me again on why even bother really being a Communist (as in reading it's literature, protesting, trying to explain it to other people) if it just seem so pointless? Things are not changing, almost everyone I've talked to about far-leftism rather gave a very vague "cool bro" response and forgot about it or actively opposed it. It also seems like leftism in general is just on the decline. Trump in the US, Le Pen in France, other rightist parties rising up slowly in Europe and America, the general growth of Islamophobia, Xenophobia, nationalism, and reactionary thinking. Everything just seems to be staying the same, or moving right. Not left. Or if left, then in the liberal, social-democrat, pacifist, reformist kind of left that just acts to band aid capitalism and never even remotely challenging the fundamental basis of our current class society.

[Kubra]

On a side note, can anyone refresh me again on what's the point of actually being a Communist and being politically self-aware?

Literally all around me, all I hear are people rather celebrating that their bourgeois idol Trump won the election, or pissy that their bourgeois idol Clinton lost the election (even if she got the popular vote). It seems as if so many people are preoccupied with the election and current status quo, never really grasping that things on a fundamental level can change to be better than what they are right now. Furthermore, I hope we can realistically agree that we will never see a worker's revolt in the first world in our life time. That's assuming it ever happens, and seeing what is currently happening with the general public it's kinda killing my hopes of it ever happening. And even then, with the introduction of new technologies, spying, ultra-militarized police, more and more advanced forms of propaganda and indoctrinatory education I doubt far-leftist thinking will flourish even if things get worse from a material perspective. I see on the internet all the time of stories of people adopting Communist thinking, yet in my day to day life this has had absolutely zero effect; it has made zero difference.

So can anyone refresh me again on why even bother really being a Communist (as in reading it's literature, protesting, trying to explain it to other people) if it just seem so pointless? Things are not changing, almost everyone I've talked to about far-leftism rather gave a very vague "cool bro" response and forgot about it or actively opposed it. It also seems like leftism in general is just on the decline. Trump in the US, Le Pen in France, other rightist parties rising up slowly in Europe and America, the general growth of Islamophobia, Xenophobia, nationalism, and reactionary thinking. Everything just seems to be staying the same, or moving right. Not left. Or if left, then in the liberal, social-democrat, pacifist, reformist kind of left that just acts to band aid capitalism and never even remotely challenging the fundamental basis of our current class society.

All those libruls are probably asking themselves "y bother" at this point as well
chill, politics sux no matter which team you choose.

[Conscentia]

On a side note, can anyone refresh me again on what's the point of actually being a Communist and being politically self-aware? [...]

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it." - These On Feuerbach, Karl Marx

"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." - The German Ideology, Karl Marx

Action is the point. If you really care about these problems you're complaining about, then do something about them. Just complaining about how futile everything else definitely won't change anything.

[Pandeeria]

On a side note, can anyone refresh me again on what's the point of actually being a Communist and being politically self-aware? [...]

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it." - These On Feuerbach, Karl Marx

"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." - The German Ideology, Karl Marx

Action is the point. If you really care about these problems you're complaining about, then do something about them. Just complaining about how futile everything else definitely won't change anything.

The whole point is that even if I do something, it won't change anything. Sitting here complaining or going out doing things will have the same effect.

[Pandeeria]

On a side note, can anyone refresh me again on what's the point of actually being a Communist and being politically self-aware?

Literally all around me, all I hear are people rather celebrating that their bourgeois idol Trump won the election, or pissy that their bourgeois idol Clinton lost the election (even if she got the popular vote). It seems as if so many people are preoccupied with the election and current status quo, never really grasping that things on a fundamental level can change to be better than what they are right now. Furthermore, I hope we can realistically agree that we will never see a worker's revolt in the first world in our life time. That's assuming it ever happens, and seeing what is currently happening with the general public it's kinda killing my hopes of it ever happening. And even then, with the introduction of new technologies, spying, ultra-militarized police, more and more advanced forms of propaganda and indoctrinatory education I doubt far-leftist thinking will flourish even if things get worse from a material perspective. I see on the internet all the time of stories of people adopting Communist thinking, yet in my day to day life this has had absolutely zero effect; it has made zero difference.

So can anyone refresh me again on why even bother really being a Communist (as in reading it's literature, protesting, trying to explain it to other people) if it just seem so pointless? Things are not changing, almost everyone I've talked to about far-leftism rather gave a very vague "cool bro" response and forgot about it or actively opposed it. It also seems like leftism in general is just on the decline. Trump in the US, Le Pen in France, other rightist parties rising up slowly in Europe and America, the general growth of Islamophobia, Xenophobia, nationalism, and reactionary thinking. Everything just seems to be staying the same, or moving right. Not left. Or if left, then in the liberal, social-democrat, pacifist, reformist kind of left that just acts to band aid capitalism and never even remotely challenging the fundamental basis of our current class society.

All those libruls are probably asking themselves "y bother" at this point as well
chill, politics sux no matter which team you choose.

No they're not, they're out protesting and complaining about Trump victory, or celebrating it.

And guess what? That will change nothing.

[Kincoboh]

Pls make that so. Heart attack is fine, assassination better.

No. Unacceptable, especially as you've been in trouble for advocating violence already.

*** 3-Day Ban For Wishing Death ***

RIP. Mattopilos remember to be more subtle with your death threats.

[Conscentia]

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it." - These On Feuerbach, Karl Marx
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." - The German Ideology, Karl Marx
Action is the point. If you really care about these problems you're complaining about, then do something about them. Just complaining about how futile everything else definitely won't change anything.

The whole point is that even if I do something, it won't change anything. Sitting here complaining or going out doing things will have the same effect.

Do you just give up immediately whenever you encounter a problem? If you're doing "something" and it's not working, then you try and figure out why and come up with something new to try.

[Trotskylvania]

I'd just like to point out to everyone that in the French Revolutionary Calendar, yesterday was 18 Brumaire.

[Kubra]

I'd just like to point out to everyone that in the French Revolutionary Calendar, today is 18 Brumaire.

today is 19th brumaire bruv

[Kubra]

All those libruls are probably asking themselves "y bother" at this point as well
chill, politics sux no matter which team you choose.

No they're not, they're out protesting and complaining about Trump victory, or celebrating it.

And guess what? That will change nothing.

There's some students out making protest. The rest? check yr fb.

[Pandeeria]

The whole point is that even if I do something, it won't change anything. Sitting here complaining or going out doing things will have the same effect.

Do you just give up immediately whenever you encounter a problem? If you're doing "something" and it's not working, then you try and figure out why and come up with something new to try.

What if I analyzed the situation with the information I currently have and have came to the conclusion that for now it's a lost cause?