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by New confederate ramenia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:06 pm
Xarchia wrote:New confederate ramenia wrote:Oh, derp. Still, why are anarchists grouped with communists?
Because what else would you call a classless, stateless society but...anarchist?New confederate ramenia wrote:
Marxist analysis is a tool, but there are tons of ideologies based off of it called Marxist.
Seems silly to turn a tool into a belief-system.
by The Serbian Empire » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:07 pm
Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:H O X H A I S M
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:08 pm
by Xarchia (Ancient) » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:11 pm
Arglorand wrote:Xarchia wrote:
Seems silly to turn a tool into a belief-system.
A worrisome tendency with self-proclaimed Marxists is precisely that: turning it into a dogma.
I use Marxian analysis myself, so I refer to myself as a Marxist in that sense for simplicity of understanding, but this cultish thing particularly Marxists-Leninists have is not good
by Xarchia (Ancient) » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:14 pm
by Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:18 pm
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:20 pm
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:20 pm
by Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:21 pm
Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
by New confederate ramenia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:22 pm
Calimera II wrote:Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
Why always this idea of a ''classless'' society and not focus on the establishment of ''one class?'' The classless society will never be achieved.
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:22 pm
Calimera II wrote:Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
Why always this idea of a ''classless'' society and not focus on the establishment of ''one class?'' The classless society will never be achieved.
by Liberty and Linguistics » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:25 pm
by New confederate ramenia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:25 pm
Liberty and Linguistics wrote:Eh, maybe this warrants a new right wing thread.
by Geilinor » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:26 pm
Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
by Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:27 pm
by Liberty and Linguistics » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:27 pm
by New confederate ramenia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:28 pm
Geilinor wrote:Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
Doesn't Marxism involve the belief that a socialist economy will transition to communism?
by Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:29 pm
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:30 pm
Geilinor wrote:Arglorand wrote:In a more political sense, you don't have to accept Marxian analysis to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society.
Equally, you don't necessarily have to believe in the establishment of a stateless, classless society to use Marxian analysis. I am one of the latter kind of people; I feel that Marxian analysis explains mankind's socioeconomic stages and advancement between them very well, and I largely accept the principle that class struggle is the driving force of that advancement. I however remain unconvinced that after a hypothetical socialist (aka classless) society has been established, it will necessarily transition into a stateless society (aka communism) as well - the whole "the state shall wither away" thing sounds more like a high fantasy prophecy than real analysis.
I also fail to see how a stateless society would function. I however accept that this may be largely due to the fact that I do not, of course, live in an age where such a society would be hypothetically possible.
Doesn't Marxism involve the belief that a socialist economy will transition to communism?
Calimera II wrote:New confederate ramenia wrote:They're really the same thing.
But the classless society will never be achieved; there will always be people who do not fit within one class. Or well, you could just prohibit the use of the word... Focussing on the establishment of one class will not necessarily lead to the establishment of one class.
by Furry Alairia and Algeria » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:31 pm
by Arglorand » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:32 pm
New confederate ramenia wrote:Geilinor wrote:Doesn't Marxism involve the belief that a socialist economy will transition to communism?
This. IIRC Marx believed that society progresses from capitalism to socialism to communism. And of course all the class conflict and sublation/progress all magically stops at communism.
by Furry Alairia and Algeria » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:34 pm
by Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:36 pm
Xarchia wrote:New confederate ramenia wrote:Oh, derp. Still, why are anarchists grouped with communists?
Because what else would you call a classless, stateless society but...anarchist?New confederate ramenia wrote:
Marxist analysis is a tool, but there are tons of ideologies based off of it called Marxist.
Seems silly to turn a tool into a belief-system.
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