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by White Chrobatia » Fri May 13, 2016 8:01 pm


by The Rich Port » Fri May 13, 2016 8:04 pm

by Renewed Imperial Germany » Fri May 13, 2016 8:05 pm

by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:09 pm

by Renewed Imperial Germany » Fri May 13, 2016 8:10 pm


by Renewed Imperial Germany » Fri May 13, 2016 8:11 pm

by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:13 pm

by The Rich Port » Fri May 13, 2016 8:16 pm
The East Marches wrote:Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Well, I mean, I'd say Obama is pretty different from George Bush.
I say they were basically the same.
Interventionist foreign policy, support of NSA and Patriot Act, both lied through their teeth, crony capitalism, supported by big banks, huge bank bailouts for their friends, executive orders, still fighting the same wars.
The only difference I see is Obama switched his stance on gay/trans rights. Thats about it.

by Renewed Imperial Germany » Fri May 13, 2016 8:17 pm
The East Marches wrote:Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Well, I mean, I'd say Obama is pretty different from George Bush.
I say they were basically the same.
Interventionist foreign policy, support of NSA and Patriot Act, both lied through their teeth, crony capitalism, supported by big banks, huge bank bailouts for their friends, executive orders, still fighting the same wars.
The only difference I see is Obama switched his stance on gay/trans rights. Thats about it.


by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:17 pm
The Rich Port wrote:The East Marches wrote:
I say they were basically the same.
Interventionist foreign policy, support of NSA and Patriot Act, both lied through their teeth, crony capitalism, supported by big banks, huge bank bailouts for their friends, executive orders, still fighting the same wars.
The only difference I see is Obama switched his stance on gay/trans rights. Thats about it.
It's the triumph of the right-wing in America.
All hail our new overlords, the corporations.

by The Rich Port » Fri May 13, 2016 8:18 pm

by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:24 pm
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:The East Marches wrote:
I say they were basically the same.
Interventionist foreign policy, support of NSA and Patriot Act, both lied through their teeth, crony capitalism, supported by big banks, huge bank bailouts for their friends, executive orders, still fighting the same wars.
The only difference I see is Obama switched his stance on gay/trans rights. Thats about it.
Well I am an interventionist, so thats OK by me. Although I do believe Obama's motives are different. He doesn't have Dick Cheney whispering in his ear to get Halliburton contracts, now does he? And Obama fought different wars. I don't think you could point to a major land intervention that started during his tenure in office and say that its "his Iraq." And LGBT rights are damn important from my perspective

by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:25 pm

by White Chrobatia » Fri May 13, 2016 8:28 pm
But I was making a joke, I know the Dems are blue.
by Devon Teyson » Fri May 13, 2016 8:29 pm
The Rich Port wrote:The East Marches wrote:
I say they were basically the same.
Interventionist foreign policy, support of NSA and Patriot Act, both lied through their teeth, crony capitalism, supported by big banks, huge bank bailouts for their friends, executive orders, still fighting the same wars.
The only difference I see is Obama switched his stance on gay/trans rights. Thats about it.
It's the triumph of the right-wing in America.
All hail our new overlords, the corporations.
The East Marches wrote:Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Well I am an interventionist, so thats OK by me. Although I do believe Obama's motives are different. He doesn't have Dick Cheney whispering in his ear to get Halliburton contracts, now does he? And Obama fought different wars. I don't think you could point to a major land intervention that started during his tenure in office and say that its "his Iraq." And LGBT rights are damn important from my perspective
He doesn't need Dick Cheney, he had Hillary shilling for her favorite military industrial complex firms. He was very similar to Bush in his offensive that got launch in Afghanistan. That was a "surge" campaign. Infact, you could argue that Obama has toppled more governments than Bush. Iraq and Afghanstan? Hell, he managed to get Egypt, Libya, Yemen and is in the process of nailing Syria. (Tunisia was one of the few "people's" risings") I mean, he even managed one of those with approval from Congress dressed up as a "limited humanitarian intervention". You know, with hellfires, to deliver aid to children. I could even point to the fact that we're back in Iraq and had almost reinvade the place. Though, we're not doing the majority of combat ops with ground troops. Instead, we're using cannon fodder shia militias and Kurds with special forces. Totally different from a huge land intervention.
LGBT rights may be important so should your right to privacy and your right to fair trial. Both of which he promised to restore by ending the whole illegal wiretaps and search & seizure thing from Patriot act/NSA. Too bad he lied about that and expanded the programs. Meanwhile swearing up and down that he did end them to get re-elected.
Such a great guy, totally different from Bush. A real class act.
good job sacto, keep it upThe Sacramento Bee wrote:“All workers should be protected, but that’s why we elect an attorney general and pay Cal/OSHA. Other proponents don’t write state jobs for themselves into their measures. We share Weinstein’s frustrations, but Proposition 60 is a legal overreach and too hardcore.”

by The East Marches » Fri May 13, 2016 8:34 pm
Devon Teyson wrote:The Rich Port wrote:
It's the triumph of the right-wing in America.
All hail our new overlords, the corporations.
Butlerian Jihad is more inevitable than ever, it looks like.The East Marches wrote:
He doesn't need Dick Cheney, he had Hillary shilling for her favorite military industrial complex firms. He was very similar to Bush in his offensive that got launch in Afghanistan. That was a "surge" campaign. Infact, you could argue that Obama has toppled more governments than Bush. Iraq and Afghanstan? Hell, he managed to get Egypt, Libya, Yemen and is in the process of nailing Syria. (Tunisia was one of the few "people's" risings") I mean, he even managed one of those with approval from Congress dressed up as a "limited humanitarian intervention". You know, with hellfires, to deliver aid to children. I could even point to the fact that we're back in Iraq and had almost reinvade the place. Though, we're not doing the majority of combat ops with ground troops. Instead, we're using cannon fodder shia militias and Kurds with special forces. Totally different from a huge land intervention.
LGBT rights may be important so should your right to privacy and your right to fair trial. Both of which he promised to restore by ending the whole illegal wiretaps and search & seizure thing from Patriot act/NSA. Too bad he lied about that and expanded the programs. Meanwhile swearing up and down that he did end them to get re-elected.
Such a great guy, totally different from Bush. A real class act.
The way you portray the American path doesn't sound like a great one.

by Devon Teyson » Fri May 13, 2016 8:40 pm
The East Marches wrote:Devon Teyson wrote:Butlerian Jihad is more inevitable than ever, it looks like.
The way you portray the American path doesn't sound like a great one.
It is better than what is faced in the rest of the world. That is a small comfort in a way. The American people know what they wanted. They just got conned out of it by a well dressed articulate person. These things happen unfortunately.
I am not sure what will happen next. Hillary and Trump aren't even doing the courtesy of lying to us as for what they want. That has me worried that this is truly going to be the status quo.
good job sacto, keep it upThe Sacramento Bee wrote:“All workers should be protected, but that’s why we elect an attorney general and pay Cal/OSHA. Other proponents don’t write state jobs for themselves into their measures. We share Weinstein’s frustrations, but Proposition 60 is a legal overreach and too hardcore.”

by The Rich Port » Fri May 13, 2016 8:42 pm

by Renewed Imperial Germany » Fri May 13, 2016 8:45 pm


by Chinese Peoples » Fri May 13, 2016 9:01 pm
The East Marches wrote:Chinese Peoples wrote:If statute makes it legal for people to be emotionally abusive, then I'll concede this point!
I am fairly certain it is in the U.S. , otherwise I'm sure I'd have heard more about that. There were a bunch of Feminists protesting this point on my campus once. The exceptions being the usual harassment and violent threats. Again, I'll need do more research.

The East Marches wrote:Chinese Peoples wrote:Isn't that quite the purpose of the independent judiciary? Of course, even that is imperfect, which is why we demand a preponderance of evidence before a conviction in civil procedure.
Raise that to beyond a reasonable doubt, then I wouldn't sperg out so much. Preponderance of evidence stacks the deck infavor of the side with the most money.

The East Marches wrote:Chinese Peoples wrote:I'm not versed in Canadian law either, but I am aware that equity plays a major part in enforcing covenants/contracts. For example, a case was heard before the Supreme Court of British Columbia, where a man, rendered paralyzed, was suing his insurer for not paying out. The company stated that the man (or his spouse, as the contract requires) did not report his injury to the insurance company within 90 days, thus disqualifying him from receiving his payout. The court ruled in law that the man had no case, but in equity that he did, and equity came before law, so the insurer was ordered to pay out. The Court of Appeal dismissed the insurer's appeal from the Supreme Court.
*Pukes over keyboard* God help us, how horrifying.
The East Marches wrote:Chinese Peoples wrote:I agree, which is why we discuss this in terms of monetary awards, in terms that all of us can appreciate.
While I think this idea is not feasible or practical; for the sake of argument, how would you price emotion in a quantifiable manner? Secondly; what if the person you are dealing with is emotionally damaged? Do you assume the emotional damages liability from somebody else when they are in your area? Even more off-topic; I can see a market for emotional liability insurance if that is the case.
The East Marches wrote:Chinese Peoples wrote:I'm hesitant to recognize such an enormously broad right. A right is a pretty absolute thing, and unjust results occurring thereunder could not be the subject of recovery. Which is why I support the term "freedom of the press", not "right of free press".
Again, due to previous abuses in the U.S., I can't support that. After the Snowden debacle, there are Senators who seriously considered licensing reporters. When you begin down that path, you again run into problems. right of a free press is absolute. Without it, the U.S. wouldn't have learned about many of our scandals. They'd remain shut up in the dark corners and swept under rugs. Even Nixon threw a shitfit over Watergate and that was done by a well respected news organization. We have had a our problems with yellow journalism in the past sure but I'd rather yellow journalism than white-washed.

by Chinese Peoples » Fri May 13, 2016 9:15 pm

by The Kievan People » Fri May 13, 2016 9:42 pm
The Rich Port wrote:It's the triumph of the right-wing in America.
All hail our new overlords, the corporations.


by The Rich Port » Fri May 13, 2016 9:56 pm
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