A libertarian who likes Bentham?
Why am I not surprised.
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by Alyakia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:29 pm
by Utilitarian Garibaldi » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:32 pm
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:33 pm
by Utilitarian Garibaldi » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:37 pm
Alyakia wrote:Utilitarian Garibaldi wrote:And why should I follow your civic "virtues" huh? I am the center of my own universe, no reason to go into collectivisim.
because a society where everyone is a dick to each other and only out for one another is a pretty shitty place to live
e: wait did i just get poe'd
by Utilitarian Garibaldi » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:41 pm
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:43 pm
by Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:46 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Utilitarian Garibaldi » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:46 pm
Morr wrote:Utilitarian Garibaldi wrote:That's a reasonable question man. But can you answer mine before I answer your's?
Duty. You have an obligation. The only reason you should honor it is a sense of morality and meaning. If you lack these, then it cannot be explained or argued to you, anymore than it can explained to a psychopath why he shouldn't mutilate children if it makes him happy.
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:48 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Morr wrote:Why should I respect your desire to be selfish and have nothing higher than yourself to live for?
Because every individual has the inborn right to be selfish as much as they can be generous. Some of us just want to be left alone; we never had an obligation to other people in the first place. We pay our taxes and our bills, and we want to leave it at that.
We do things for the same reasons you do, because it's a personal choice.
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:49 pm
Utilitarian Garibaldi wrote:Morr wrote:Duty. You have an obligation. The only reason you should honor it is a sense of morality and meaning. If you lack these, then it cannot be explained or argued to you, anymore than it can explained to a psychopath why he shouldn't mutilate children if it makes him happy.
I don't think everyone views communitarianism as moral.
by Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:58 pm
Morr wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:Because every individual has the inborn right to be selfish as much as they can be generous. Some of us just want to be left alone; we never had an obligation to other people in the first place. We pay our taxes and our bills, and we want to leave it at that.
We do things for the same reasons you do, because it's a personal choice.
You actually do owe a great deal to society, including your existence, your language and your culture.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Unnamed island state » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:04 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Morr wrote:You actually do owe a great deal to society, including your existence, your language and your culture.
The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
by Geilinor » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:07 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Morr wrote:You actually do owe a great deal to society, including your existence, your language and your culture.
The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:10 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Morr wrote:You actually do owe a great deal to society, including your existence, your language and your culture.
The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:17 pm
Unnamed island state wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
No. Without a society you would be a feral child, you owe something to society.
by Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:19 pm
Morr wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
Your culture and language where not something that were invented once and then existed for all time. They were a long process of effort and addition and preservation maintained by society.
Your existence is also not a once-and-done deal. Its is sustained by all the innovation and labor of thousands of years and continuing into the present. Your existence isn't just your physical occupation of space, it's your personality and soul and lifestyle.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Kubra » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:22 pm
Don't be silly, without society he would have learned to speak ancient hebrewUnnamed island state wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:The people who made my culture and my language have been dead for centuries. I owe nothing to them.
My existence, however, was never an event of my choosing. I'm glad to be alive, yes, but it's not something I have to repay.
No. Without a society you would be a feral child, you owe something to society.
by Morr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:24 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Morr wrote:Your culture and language where not something that were invented once and then existed for all time. They were a long process of effort and addition and preservation maintained by society.
Your existence is also not a once-and-done deal. Its is sustained by all the innovation and labor of thousands of years and continuing into the present. Your existence isn't just your physical occupation of space, it's your personality and soul and lifestyle.
You are correct in this instance. I am aware that civilization would be absent had it not been for social contributions across multiple generations. I am no stranger to the idea of civic duty, in fact, I have been planning to join the navy and serve my country when I am able. But here's the thing, all of those contributions were made by individuals. Most of those individuals, I hope, chose to contribute. Aside from paying taxes and bills and obeying the law, I see no need to enforce the idea of 'civic duty' on others.
It is a waste of time to impose my ideas for utopia on those who can't be bothered to care in the first place.
by The Republic of American Freedom » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:26 pm
Morr wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:You are correct in this instance. I am aware that civilization would be absent had it not been for social contributions across multiple generations. I am no stranger to the idea of civic duty, in fact, I have been planning to join the navy and serve my country when I am able. But here's the thing, all of those contributions were made by individuals. Most of those individuals, I hope, chose to contribute. Aside from paying taxes and bills and obeying the law, I see no need to enforce the idea of 'civic duty' on others.
It is a waste of time to impose my ideas for utopia on those who can't be bothered to care in the first place.
All these contributions were made by individuals who wouldn't exist without society.
by Palakistan » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:26 pm
Your worst In Character enemy should be your best Out Of Character friend.- to you who said that: genius!
by Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:29 pm
Morr wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:You are correct in this instance. I am aware that civilization would be absent had it not been for social contributions across multiple generations. I am no stranger to the idea of civic duty, in fact, I have been planning to join the navy and serve my country when I am able. But here's the thing, all of those contributions were made by individuals. Most of those individuals, I hope, chose to contribute. Aside from paying taxes and bills and obeying the law, I see no need to enforce the idea of 'civic duty' on others.
It is a waste of time to impose my ideas for utopia on those who can't be bothered to care in the first place.
All these contributions were made by individuals who wouldn't exist without society.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by The Republic of American Freedom » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:32 pm
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