Right-Wing Discussion Thread

[Lyras]

yes. that doesn't mean white people are innately superior to every group of people. it just means that by and large a white person, in say, the US, will have an easier life and more opportunities than a non-white person, because we spent centuries specifically making it that way. i like to use apartheid as my admittedly rather extreme example for the next part, there were well off black people and homeless poor white people but that doesn't change the fact that by and large being being white was clearly more advantageous and you would be a fool to deny it. and yes, there are countries where being white has different advantages and in many cases severe disadvantages, we do not live in those places.

just covering my bases here because white privilege discussion get toxic fast.

Yes it does. Any system that tries to place value of people based on their skin colour is a racist system.

And yet many places in the West do just that, under the guise of 'affirmative action' or 'diversity quotas'. People are thusly valued purely on the basis of their race, not the content of their character. Interesting how the progressives become oppressive, isn't it?

[Alyakia]

yes. that doesn't mean white people are innately superior to every group of people. it just means that by and large a white person, in say, the US, will have an easier life and more opportunities than a non-white person, because we spent centuries specifically making it that way. i like to use apartheid as my admittedly rather extreme example for the next part, there were well off black people and homeless poor white people but that doesn't change the fact that by and large being being white was clearly more advantageous and you would be a fool to deny it. and yes, there are countries where being white has different advantages and in many cases severe disadvantages, we do not live in those places.

just covering my bases here because white privilege discussion get toxic fast.

In my life I have yet to witness such an event. At 22 I may not have lived long enough but I doubt that is the issue. I have been discrmanted againist in my life. I have found no advantage to being white. I have fought and worked very hard to get anything at all. I find myself leaning toward the fact that "white privilege" Is just an excuse used by the lazy to justify why they have nothing.

I am not denying that racism does not exist. it surely does but in modern day america I have yet to witness anything like aparthied or Jim Crowe.

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

i'm tired but i hope this makes sense.

[Alyakia]

Yes it does. Any system that tries to place value of people based on their skin colour is a racist system.

And yet many places in the West do just that, under the guise of 'affirmative action' or 'diversity quotas'. People are thusly valued purely on the basis of their race, not the content of their character. Interesting how the progressives become oppressive, isn't it?

to build on a point from my last post, as we covered before these all stem from an obvious problem. you systematically deny people opportunities and drive them into shit areas then one day you declare people are equal. but... they're still in the shit areas. you need an active program to correct the racial differences caused by previous racial policies, and just declaring equal treatment for all races doesn't work because it doesn't account for the differences split down racial lines.

like i said before it's all horrible and i wish we really could just wave a magic wand and fix shit

[Unnamed island state]

Yes it does. Any system that tries to place value of people based on their skin colour is a racist system.

And yet many places in the West do just that, under the guise of 'affirmative action' or 'diversity quotas'. People are thusly valued purely on the basis of their race, not the content of their character. Interesting how the progressives become oppressive, isn't it?

The acceptability of discrimination really depends on the purpose of what institution is in question.

[Lyras]

In my life I have yet to witness such an event. At 22 I may not have lived long enough but I doubt that is the issue. I have been discrmanted againist in my life. I have found no advantage to being white. I have fought and worked very hard to get anything at all. I find myself leaning toward the fact that "white privilege" Is just an excuse used by the lazy to justify why they have nothing.

I am not denying that racism does not exist. it surely does but in modern day america I have yet to witness anything like aparthied or Jim Crowe.

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

i'm tired but i hope this makes sense.

I appreciate what is being asserted. Really, I do. But if we are to be equal under the law, and not breed either self-hatred, or resentment, or an underclass, we need to treat people equally, under the law. If you are socially disadvantaged, whatever your race, apply for the assistance that should be available across the board, if such assistance is available in any way at all.

But saying 'this is only available to people of X race, on the basis of their skin colour' is highly reprehensible, and I am borderline flabbergasted that people who nominally value equality consider this just.




Part of the problem is, the assertions are being made that everyone is interchangeable. Those who purport to value diversity seem to want identical outcomes from groups that are asserted to be 'diverse', 'unique', 'special', etc. If people and peoples are genuinely diverse, genuinely different, in any meaningful way (and I assert that they are, and that that fact is part of the beauty of humanity and its many and varied cultures and societies) then, by definition, there will be some differences in outcomes (on averages, anyway) between groups. This is ok, and normal. But if genuine diversity is purely an illusion, then people and societies must be hit by the hammer of equality to MAKE everyone the same, whether they want it or not.
At least, that's how the rhetoric seems to come across sometimes.

[Patrick OConner]

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

Here in America we several generation of 'black kids' removed from both slavery and Jim Crowe. Historical divison about slavery went back to the very founding of this nation as well. (look it up jerfferson wanted to put a bit in in declarion about it but was rejected out of fear of causing issues at the time.) But as I said we are several gneertaion removed from slavery and jim crowe. I think at some piont we have to admit that some people just do not want to be helped and would rather blame some else for there issues. I am not saying that is doesn not happen, but I think that certian people are making a bigger issue of it than it actaully is. Of course you can not just delcare everyone is equal. wqorld is not that nice and clean. It is dirty and cold. You want something you have fight for it and pray that you can win in the end.

[Alyakia]

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

Here in America we several generation of 'black kids' removed from both slavery and Jim Crowe. Historical divison about slavery went back to the very founding of this nation as well. (look it up jerfferson wanted to put a bit in in declarion about it but was rejected out of fear of causing issues at the time.) But as I said we are several gneertaion removed from slavery and jim crowe. I think at some piont we have to admit that some people just do not want to be helped and would rather blame some else for there issues. I am not saying that is doesn not happen, but I think that certian people are making a bigger issue of it than it actaully is.

this is what i honestly don't get. just because a generation or several generations have passed doesn't mean everything is now ok. to use another one of my favourite lines, baghdad still hasn't recovered from the mongols. areas that got destroyed by the collapse of industry and coal a generation ago are still feeling the pain of it, partially because there was no targeted policy to deal with the effects.

some people over blow it, some people under play it.

[Jochistan]

I've just noticed. The OP is pretty extreme.

[Patrick OConner]

Part of the problem is, the assertions are being made that everyone is interchangeable. Those who purport to value diversity seem to want identical outcomes from groups that are asserted to be 'diverse', 'unique', 'special', etc. If people and peoples are genuinely diverse, genuinely different, in any meaningful way (and I assert that they are, and that that fact is part of the beauty of humanity and its many and varied cultures and societies) then, by definition, there will be some differences in outcomes (on averages, anyway) between groups. This is ok, and normal. But if genuine diversity is purely an illusion, then people and societies must be hit by the hammer of equality to MAKE everyone the same, whether they want it or not.
At least, that's how the rhetoric seems to come across sometimes.

I do not want equall outcomes. Just equal starting ground. We are all not equal. That is a fact. some are smarter some stronger, etc, etc. We need equality before the law everyone should to start ouut the same or close to it. We should all have to finish the same.

And making everyone fit some predetermined mold in the name of equality? Sounds like a stripping of freedoms to me. Sounds like oppression to me. I like freedom.

[Jochistan]

Now when the poll says monarchist, it means Absolute, divine right type monarchist?

Those people are still here?

[Sociopia]

I've just noticed. The OP is pretty extreme.

Original post or original poster? Because if you mean the latter I very much agree.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I've just noticed. The OP is pretty extreme.

Original post or original poster? Because if you mean the latter I very much agree.

Considering he cites "the importance of traditional and moral values and the war against cultural marxism" in the OP, I think either fits.

[Jochistan]

I've just noticed. The OP is pretty extreme.

Original post or original poster? Because if you mean the latter I very much agree.

The Latter, yeah.

I've been seeing more and more of those types here.

[Jochistan]

Original post or original poster? Because if you mean the latter I very much agree.

Considering he cites "the importance of traditional and moral values and the war against cultural marxism" in the OP, I think either fits.

Well, it depends on what one means by traditional values. But supporting a strong presence of institutionalized morality and tradition in the state isn't all that extreme.

Hell, it isn't even exclusively right wing.

What tipped me off was the "cultural marxist" comment,the "White Nationalist" description in the sig and the...video in his sig.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Considering he cites "the importance of traditional and moral values and the war against cultural marxism" in the OP, I think either fits.

Well, it depends on what one means by traditional values. But supporting a strong presence of institutionalized morality and tradition in the state isn't all that extreme.

Hell, it isn't even exclusively right wing.

A damn good portion of right-wingers don't support "traditional values," and "cultural marxism" is a bullshit term almost exclusively used by far-right crypto-fascists.

[Jochistan]

I mean Cultural Marxism as in the way most natsocs use it to refer to "multiculturalism".

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I...don't...

Let's start over. What do you think that people mean when they talk about "white privilege"?

That white people are innately superior to every other group of people.

It's a disgusting belief system and it shames me to share a wing with them.

That's not even close to what "white privilege" means. I told you what it means earlier.

[Caninope]

Now when the poll says monarchist, it means Absolute, divine right type monarchist?

Those people are still here?

Monarchists don't have to believe in the divine right of kings.

In fact, it's a relatively new doctrine within European history, post-dating the Medieval Era and being an entirely modern conception.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

but that's not what the concept white privilege is

White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country

Right. And (traditionally), those on the left recognize this system, and oppose it, though not in all cases.

[Jochistan]

Well, it depends on what one means by traditional values. But supporting a strong presence of institutionalized morality and tradition in the state isn't all that extreme.

Hell, it isn't even exclusively right wing.

A damn good portion of right-wingers don't support "traditional values," and "cultural marxism" is a bullshit term almost exclusively used by far-right crypto-fascists.

Again, it depends on what you mean by traditional values.

Many of those traditional values, such as anti-promiscuity, social class structure, basic adherence to what's expected of you from family and from your country, certain social norms,respect and hierarchy in the family unit etc. are necessary and commendable. And should be upheld and encouraged by the state.

When we're talking "traditional values" such as anti same sex marriage or anti race mixing, then yeah...most/many right wingers don't support that.

[Lyras]

Well, it depends on what one means by traditional values. But supporting a strong presence of institutionalized morality and tradition in the state isn't all that extreme.

Hell, it isn't even exclusively right wing.

A damn good portion of right-wingers don't support "traditional values," and "cultural marxism" is a bullshit term almost exclusively used by far-right crypto-fascists.

Actually, I disagree. There are even theories such as ‘intersectionality’ which do lump all forms of ‘socio-cultural-heteronormative oppression’ into one big bag, and argue for doing away with the lot of it.

I’m not saying that all, or indeed even many folks arguing for social change actively push in such a fashion, but it certainly is being taught in (at least some Australian) universities, and there are lobby groups that act in this manner.

Cultural marxism is used as a bit of a catch-all for cultural white-anting, so might not be entirely accurate, but it’s not entirely Inaccurate, either, as the foundational principles are often (at least loosely) rooted in marxist principles.

[Jochistan]

Now when the poll says monarchist, it means Absolute, divine right type monarchist?

Those people are still here?

Monarchists don't have to believe in the divine right of kings.

In fact, it's a relatively new doctrine within European history, post-dating the Medieval Era and being an entirely modern conception.

Yeah, what about absolute monarchy?

I guess, what I'm asking is what do the monarchists here mean by "monarchy"? Constitutional? Elective?

[USS Monitor]

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

Here in America we several generation of 'black kids' removed from both slavery and Jim Crowe. Historical divison about slavery went back to the very founding of this nation as well. (look it up jerfferson wanted to put a bit in in declarion about it but was rejected out of fear of causing issues at the time.) But as I said we are several gneertaion removed from slavery and jim crowe. I think at some piont we have to admit that some people just do not want to be helped and would rather blame some else for there issues. I am not saying that is doesn not happen, but I think that certian people are making a bigger issue of it than it actaully is. Of course you can not just delcare everyone is equal. wqorld is not that nice and clean. It is dirty and cold. You want something you have fight for it and pray that you can win in the end.

There are people still alive who grew up with Jim Crow laws. We really aren't that far removed from it.

[Sociopia]

Original post or original poster? Because if you mean the latter I very much agree.

The Latter, yeah.

I've been seeing more and more of those types here.

It is a shame.

[Lyras]

In my life I have yet to witness such an event. At 22 I may not have lived long enough but I doubt that is the issue. I have been discrmanted againist in my life. I have found no advantage to being white. I have fought and worked very hard to get anything at all. I find myself leaning toward the fact that "white privilege" Is just an excuse used by the lazy to justify why they have nothing.

I am not denying that racism does not exist. it surely does but in modern day america I have yet to witness anything like aparthied or Jim Crowe.

the point isn't that you're actively being helped for being white, it's passive and in some cases historical. you are still less likely than a black person to go to jail if you commit a crime. have you seen the studies about how people with non-white sounding names are less likely to get call backs than white sounding names for jobs? if your name is nice and white sounding that probably helped you. it's also not coincidental that good schools tend to be in white areas and white people are flat out more likely to be born into better off circumstances than black people.

in some cases it's just historical. you keep people as slaves for centuries and have them segregated with separate but equal (read: inferior) facilities and you think that all the differences this caused went away within one generation and a black child is just as likely to be born into the same circumstances and with the same opportunities in life as a white child? because that is why to say that white privilege does not exist requires.

don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that white people are evil, you are evil for being white or that you must be ashamed of your white devil skin and whip yourself while giving everything away to the closet family with skin darker than X pigmentation, it's just recognition that yeah we spent centuries trying to build a country where whites were on top and it kinda worked, and centuries of differences do not disappear by suddenly declaring everyone is equal now. that's just not how it works.

i'm tired but i hope this makes sense.

I appreciate what is being asserted. Really, I do. But if we are to be equal under the law, and not breed either self-hatred, or resentment, or an underclass, we need to treat people equally, under the law. If you are socially disadvantaged, whatever your race, apply for the assistance that should be available across the board, if such assistance is available in any way at all.

But saying 'this is only available to people of X race, on the basis of their skin colour' is highly reprehensible, and I am borderline flabbergasted that people who nominally value equality consider this just.




Part of the problem is, the assertions are being made that everyone is interchangeable. Those who purport to value diversity seem to want identical outcomes from groups that are asserted to be 'diverse', 'unique', 'special', etc. If people and peoples are genuinely diverse, genuinely different, in any meaningful way (and I assert that they are, and that that fact is part of the beauty of humanity and its many and varied cultures and societies) then, by definition, there will be some differences in outcomes (on averages, anyway) between groups. This is ok, and normal. But if genuine diversity is purely an illusion, then people and societies must be hit by the hammer of equality to MAKE everyone the same, whether they want it or not.
At least, that's how the rhetoric seems to come across sometimes.

EDIT: Repost
EDIT2: Meh. I'll leave it.