GOP Primary Megathread II—Electoral Boogaloo

[Khadgar]

True, but Trump's hostile takeover over the Republican Party has been the remarkable thing about this election.

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

[Diopolis]

True, but Trump's hostile takeover over the Republican Party has been the remarkable thing about this election.

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

Libertarians are the opposite of moderate.

[Zurkerx]

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

They'll have to become more moderate on issues, otherwise they'll never attract people. I am more moderate then your usual Libertarian here.

[Diopolis]

Given how Trump-centric this thread has become, perhaps it should be renamed "Orange Is the New White".

He is by far the most entertaining clown to stumble out of a car last fall. Getting a bit horrifying, but still it's riveting.

It's exactly like a reality show. TLC should host the next debate.

[Romalae]

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

I would agree with that. I think it's because their online presence is truly vast, and when you're surrounded by so many others in the same group, you probably assume that you are more numerous than you actually are.

[Diopolis]

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

I would agree with that. I think it's because their online presence is truly vast, and when you're surrounded by so many others in the same group, you probably assume that you are more numerous than you actually are.

Yep. Extreme economic views are not something a lot of people have an appetite for- the only reason the republicans get as far on them as they do is because they have a religious right coalition partner willing to overlook them. Without the correct noises on gay marriage and abortion, that's not the case.

[Romalae]

I would agree with that. I think it's because their online presence is truly vast, and when you're surrounded by so many others in the same group, you probably assume that you are more numerous than you actually are.

Yep. Extreme economic views are not something a lot of people have an appetite for- the only reason the republicans get as far on them as they do is because they have a religious right coalition partner willing to overlook them. Without the correct noises on gay marriage and abortion, that's not the case.

I honestly believe that some people who describe themselves as libertarians aren't actually libertarians. I think they want to characterize themselves that way because I guess it's more socially acceptable or fashionable or whatever in an online setting and among young people. I think they're just as conservative/Republican as their conservative/Republican parents, but have found a way to rebel while still being right-wing.

There are definitely real libertarians out there, but from my own interactions with a few self-described libertarians I'm starting to become a little skeptical.

[MolokoPlus]

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

Yeah, the libertarians can't court voters outside their small but loyal base unless they adopt more pragmatic stances. Until then, they can remain the token third party.

And I say this as someone who's been considering moving to the Libertarians. Unless the GOP ditches it's anti immigrant rhetoric and heavy social conservatism, I'll feel isolated from the party.

[Shrillland]

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

Yeah, the libertarians can't court voters outside their small but loyal base unless they adopt more pragmatic stances. Until then, they can remain the token third party.

And I say this as someone who's been considering moving to the Libertarians. Unless the GOP ditches it's anti immigrant rhetoric and heavy social conservatism, I'll feel isolated from the party.

I don't think they really can adopt more pragmatic stances and still remain Libertarian, though. When your party's ideology is simply "down with the state, up with the individual", it's hard to complicate that with saying that the state can do certain things and that individuals can't be trusted with others.

[Diopolis]

Yep. Extreme economic views are not something a lot of people have an appetite for- the only reason the republicans get as far on them as they do is because they have a religious right coalition partner willing to overlook them. Without the correct noises on gay marriage and abortion, that's not the case.

I honestly believe that some people who describe themselves as libertarians aren't actually libertarians. I think they want to characterize themselves that way because I guess it's more socially acceptable or fashionable or whatever in an online setting and among young people. I think they're just as conservative/Republican as their conservative/Republican parents, but have found a way to rebel while still being right-wing.

There are definitely real libertarians out there, but from my own interactions with a few self-described libertarians I'm starting to become a little skeptical.

It's definitely true that the majority of people who describe themselves as libertarians aren't. But, those people tend to vote republican anyway; they would have little to do with the libertarian revolution people seem to be so sure of.

[Novus America]

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

Yeah, the libertarians can't court voters outside their small but loyal base unless they adopt more pragmatic stances. Until then, they can remain the token third party.

And I say this as someone who's been considering moving to the Libertarians. Unless the GOP ditches it's anti immigrant rhetoric and heavy social conservatism, I'll feel isolated from the party.

Anti immigration setinments is only rising as I have shown. You cannot merely ditch it.

[Trumpostan]

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

Libertarianism is only great if you can afford it. But if you're not white-ish, young-ish, well-enough-to-do-ish (financially), healthy-ish and lived in a country where the government has provided relative stability and peace for a long time, then it isn't so great for you. Wonder not why there are no libertarians in Somalia or Afghanistan.

[Cymrea]

Anti immigration setinments is only rising as I have shown. You cannot merely ditch it.

Significantly aided and abetted by the deliberate slant of sensationalism in media and the unfortunate volume of more extreme minority views. One whacko yells fire and a whole lot of people begin fearing without thinking first.

[Novus America]

Anti immigration setinments is only rising as I have shown. You cannot merely ditch it.

Significantly aided and abetted by the deliberate slant of sensationalism in media and the unfortunate volume of more extreme minority views. One whacko yells fire and a whole lot of people begin fearing without thinking first.

And your point? The fire is already out of control. Sure it feeds on itself. But it keeps growing.
Yes. We could have put out the fire rather than panic. But we did not. We ran from it. Denied it. But that did not put it out. It will burn us all.

[Novus America]

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

Libertarianism is only great if you can afford it. But if you're not white-ish, young-ish, well-enough-to-do-ish (financially), healthy-ish and lived in a country where the government has provided relative stability and peace for a long time, then it isn't so great for you. Wonder not why there are no libertarians in Somalia or Afghanistan.

Somalia and Afganistan are not and never have been libertarian. Libertarian is not an oppressive regime followed by civil war.

The closest thing to Libertarianism in practice is Las Vegas.

[Kelinfort]

Libertarianism is only great if you can afford it. But if you're not white-ish, young-ish, well-enough-to-do-ish (financially), healthy-ish and lived in a country where the government has provided relative stability and peace for a long time, then it isn't so great for you. Wonder not why there are no libertarians in Somalia or Afghanistan.

Somalia and Afganistan are not and never have been libertarian. Libertarian is not an oppressive regime followed by civil war.

The closest thing to Libertarianism in practice is Las Vegas.

You could say rural Somalia is the closest society has gotten to anarcho-capitalism.

[Cymrea]

Significantly aided and abetted by the deliberate slant of sensationalism in media and the unfortunate volume of more extreme minority views. One whacko yells fire and a whole lot of people begin fearing without thinking first.

And your point? The fire is already out of control. Sure it feeds on itself. But it keeps growing.
Yes. We could have put out the fire rather than panic. But we did not. We ran from it. Denied it. But that did not put it out. It will burn us all.

I articulated some of why the anti-immigration sentiment is rising. We're in agreement, and I expanded on your point.

[Novus America]

Somalia and Afganistan are not and never have been libertarian. Libertarian is not an oppressive regime followed by civil war.

The closest thing to Libertarianism in practice is Las Vegas.

You could say rural Somalia is the closest society has gotten to anarcho-capitalism.

Well sure. To a degree, though Warlordism is not the goal of anarcho-capitalism. But few libertarians are anarcho capitalist.

[Arkinesia]

And the Libertarians will be waiting in the shadows to scope up those disenfranchise moderates.

I don't think there's as much appetite for libertarianism as libertarians like to think there is.

According to Gallup, 27% of Americans align with what would be classified as some kind of libertarian viewpoint. That is to say 27% of Americans fall on the greater freedom side both in economics and in social views when it comes to what leaders in government should push for.

By the way, that constitutes a plurality of the electorate.

So yes, I think there is plenty of appetite for libertarianism, but the fact that neither major party is showcasing an actual candidate favoring such positions has a lot to do with why libertarianism has the façade of unpopularity.

[Trumpostan]

More polls (yay... )

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Trump ahead by 16 (CNN/ORC) or 23 (Quinnipiac) in Florida.

Also, Trump ahead of Kasich in Ohio by 6 (both CNN/ORC and Quinnipiac) and trailing by 5 (Fox).

Let's kick the open door in: Ohio could be interesting

[MChitLers]

A young black Trump rally protester was sucker punched by 78 year old John McGraw while attempting to exit the venue in North Carolina today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... lly-videos

Reminds me of this song.... Lighten Up McGraw

[Neon Trotsky]

Yeah, the libertarians can't court voters outside their small but loyal base unless they adopt more pragmatic stances. Until then, they can remain the token third party.

And I say this as someone who's been considering moving to the Libertarians. Unless the GOP ditches it's anti immigrant rhetoric and heavy social conservatism, I'll feel isolated from the party.

I don't think they really can adopt more pragmatic stances and still remain Libertarian, though. When your party's ideology is simply "down with the state, up with the individual", it's hard to complicate that with saying that the state can do certain things and that individuals can't be trusted with others.

Pretty much. The deontological foundations of libertarianism don't leave much room for pragmatism or compromise.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A young black Trump rally protester was sucker punched by 78 year old John McGraw while attempting to exit the venue in North Carolina today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... lly-videos

Reminds me of this song.... Lighten Up McGraw

The problem is that his brand of violence is contagious.

He's a problematic candidate because of his approach by violence.

[MChitLers]

A young black Trump rally protester was sucker punched by 78 year old John McGraw while attempting to exit the venue in North Carolina today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... lly-videos

Reminds me of this song.... Lighten Up McGraw

The problem is that his brand of violence is contagious.

He's a problematic candidate because of his approach by violence.

It has usually been known in the past as "Mob Rule."

[Eol Sha]

In addition to his crowds assaulting protesters, Trump's campaign staff is assaulting and mandhandling reporters. This is gross and disturbing.