Logical argument against Islamophobia?

[Teemant]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/

Look second graphic.

There's a .6 difference in birth rates in NA and Europe where there are white majorities. Still not seeing the exponential growth

Add migration to it as well and the growth is fast. 0.6 is a lot - it is birthrates we are talking about.

[Lost heros]

That means being able to criticise Islam without calls of "bigot" and "islamophobe."

I wonder why left thinks islam is that special? They have no problems with making jokes and calling names when it comes to christians and jews.

We don't. But I hope you realize there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and Jews, and saying Islamophobia is necessary.

[Tierra Prime]

I love it when people call degrade themselves by calling the followers of their opposite political ideology as retards, makes me warm inside.

Ridicule is the appropriate response for asinine beliefs statements.

It's a distraction rather than an actual logical argument, so it's therefore useless. It can also thread into ad hominem territory pretty quickly.

[Aggicificicerous]

(Image)

I like how all the Balkans and Ukraine are depicted as "No War".

[Tierra Prime]

I wonder why left thinks islam is that special? They have no problems with making jokes and calling names when it comes to christians and jews.

We don't. But I hope you realize there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and Jews, and saying Islamophobia is necessary.

Criticism of all religions, ideologies, and doctrines is necessary. When you take things literally, you become a fundamentalist.

[Tierra Prime]

(Image)

I like how all the Balkans and Ukraine are depicted as "No War".

Technically there isn't war in the Balkans and west/central Ukraine.

[Teemant]

I wonder why left thinks islam is that special? They have no problems with making jokes and calling names when it comes to christians and jews.

We don't. But I hope you realize there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and Jews, and saying Islamophobia is necessary.

Making jokes about islam is seen as islamophobia and racism but jokes about christians and jews freedom of expression. That's the thing that I wanted to point out.

[Lost heros]

There's a .6 difference in birth rates in NA and Europe where there are white majorities. Still not seeing the exponential growth

Add migration to it as well and the growth is fast. 0.6 is a lot - it is birthrates we are talking about.

2) Due to low birthrates in these cultures an influx of "outsiders" who breed at a higher rate means that demographically they (the outsiders) will become the majority in that country as growth will increase exponentially.

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the- ... opulation/

In Europe as a whole, the Muslim share of the population is expected to grow by nearly one-third over the next 20 years, rising from 6% of the region’s inhabitants in 2010 to 8% in 2030.

Oh noez, 8%! That's almost a majority! Also note that most of this increase will be because of immigration, not because of higher birthrates.

He says it better

We don't. But I hope you realize there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and Jews, and saying Islamophobia is necessary.

Criticism of all religions, ideologies, and doctrines is necessary. When you take things literally, you become a fundamentalist.

What?

[Ifreann]

I've been doing a lot of research for the past year or so and it seems that I have reached a conclusion where I want less immigrants/refugees from cultures that don't mimic a nations dominant one.

Here are some points I currently have:

1) Multiculturalism while in theory sounds great, is something only white/western societies seem to see as ideal. Is this not white suicide? I'd say suicide since they're literally doing it to themselves.

2) Due to low birthrates in these cultures an influx of "outsiders" who breed at a higher rate means that demographically they (the outsiders) will become the majority in that country as growth will increase exponentially.

3) Once a majority has been reached then democratically that country should follow the wishes of the majority of their population. Which would be the laws and traditions of the original "outsiders"

4) Bringing the failing ideologies, traditions, beliefs and way of life from failing country B to country A will turn country A into B overtime.

I have many more points, and statistics but there is already a lot here. Basically what I'm asking for is an intelligent, logical rebuttal. I unlike many others am a rational person and am willing to change my current view when presented with evidence.

Thoughts?

Your entire argument is founded on assumptions, but if there is one key assumption it is that the descendants of immigrants will be political clones of those immigrants, holding the same views and valuing the same things. There should be no question that this is not how humans work. Do you have the exact same political opinions as your parents? As your grandparents? Your great-grandparents? Do you even know the political opinions of your great-grandparents? Do you have the exact same political opinions as everyone in your country? As everyone of your religion? Of course you don't. Why would you? You're your own person with your own experiences, and these inform your political views.

Muslims are not a hivemind. A country will not flip to a Caliphate the moment the Muslim population hits 50% + 1. It's an absurdity to think so. It is illogical. The descendants of Muslim immigrants may not even be Muslim if(if) they ever become a majority in your nation.

[Liberalpolitan]

Honestly there is no need to change your way of thinking. Take some time to read a Qur'an.

The "they are all peaceful" phrase is a complete lot of crap. There are I believe 100-117 open faced calls to violence (murder, rape, destruction). Now what an open face claim means is that it's not historically tied to one event. So an example current day would be America's calls for entering WWII. We were not given permission forever to kill and destroy but for that instance given the ability to fight for what was believed to be the right thing to do. The Qur'an allows over 100 times for random acts of violence and gives you ways to justify it.

The Qur'an literally declares that women are cattle
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:
"Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . "(MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

Any non believer is referred to as an infidel. While there are some verses that say convert, convert, convert with love and peace it then goes on to declare believers commit mass genocide of nonbelievers.


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense.

The Qur'an not only allows pedophillia but encourages it. In fact super prophet there took his cousin as his wife at 9 to engage with her. They used her menstral fluid to bath in.

Muhammad the supposed high prophet was literally an armed robber. Like Robin Hood! Oh but instead of giving to the poor he murdered traders and carrivans to get rich.

Besides that if we use modern examples of countries who have been inundated we can see they don't want to become part of the culture or aside by current laws. Their system dictates they follow only their laws. England, Germany, France, and other major European countries have all been dealing with this for several years.

I really also don't want to hear BS about who is more violent either. Statistically we can see major violent crimes committed have been a much higher ratio for Muslim culture. ISIS is not new, people tend to forget we were over there far longer than that. It's also not a new war caused by America. The Roman Empire, England (twice: once with the crusades and then with colonization), and Russia. The Marine Corps anthem even covers fighting Muslim piracy on the shores of Tripoli. anyways people tend to view Muslims in a small scope in comparison to their local crimes. Worldwide they have proven their violent nature in the name of their book.

(Statistically which means to view the numerical values for probability and occurrence ratios)

Whoever replies don't make this a Qur'an vs anything else conversation. I also won't engage in this vs any other religion.

Point being is you are risking your country and culture to think that it's all some phobia. There is enough information to demonstrate the danger Islam culture presents. Especially when conservative statics demonstrate that there are between 25-35 million "extremists". French and English polls also asked if the common Muslim condemned ISIS and it came back with astounding support.

[The Alma Mater]

I still do not get the point of that image. Of course a refugee will flee to a place where they have a shot of a new life. Do you expect them to spend the coming 30 years or so in a refugee camp or slum just because "it is safe there" ?

So Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Österreich, Slovakia, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia and Turkey are slums? Damn.

Correct. At least where the housing for refugees is concerned.

[Tierra Prime]

What?

You'll need to be more specific.

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Islamophobia is not useful. Assimilating these people is useful. Help them learn the language, teach the customs and culture, convince them to accept such things as LGBT and other non-Islamic beliefs (I'd do this to Christians as well) and make them your culture.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

No. This is point 2:



The claim is that the rate of growth of the Muslim population will increase exponentially, and that Muslims (well, "outsiders", but the topic is Islam) will become a majority. No evidence for this happening has been provided.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/

Look second graphic.

A valiant attempt Sir/Madam. Not particularly relevant to point 2, but a good try. Of course, a somewhat higher fertility rate at the moment does not mean Muslims will become a majority, or that the rate of growth will increase exponentially. Indeed, your source does not suggest that at all.

[Lost heros]

We don't. But I hope you realize there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and Jews, and saying Islamophobia is necessary.

Making jokes about islam is seen as islamophobia and racism but jokes about christians and jews freedom of expression. That's the thing that I wanted to point out.

Strange, I thought calling for bans on Muslim refugees, advocating muslim free zones, and accusing all Muslims are rapists and murderers was islamophobia.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Making jokes about islam is seen as islamophobia and racism but jokes about christians and jews freedom of expression. That's the thing that I wanted to point out.

Strange, I thought calling for bans on Muslim refugees, advocating muslim free zones, and accusing all Muslims are rapists and murderers was islamophobia.

Ha! Is joke! Funny, no?

[Lost heros]

What?

You'll need to be more specific.

Your post makes no sense. There is no literal doctrines of not being bigoted.

[Tierra Prime]

Islamophobia is not useful. Assimilating these people is useful. Help them learn the language, teach the customs and culture, convince them to accept such things as LGBT and other non-Islamic beliefs (I'd do this to Christians as well) and make them your culture.

The thing is, Islamophobia is often seen as anything that criticises Islam. You can hate Islam based on legitimate criticism of it, that is not Islamophobia. Only the hatred of Islam because you know nothing about it (Or because "those people are brown" or whatever else) is Islamophobia. If you have a well researched and reasoned argument, then your criticism is valid.

[Teemant]

Making jokes about islam is seen as islamophobia and racism but jokes about christians and jews freedom of expression. That's the thing that I wanted to point out.

Strange, I thought calling for bans on Muslim refugees, advocating muslim free zones, and accusing all Muslims are rapists and murderers was islamophobia.

That's the bullshit you run into when trying to highlight problem. Of course you picked the worst things that have been said in recent times. I could pick things around the world said about Christians and Jews also but this is pointless.

[Tierra Prime]

You'll need to be more specific.

Your post makes no sense. There is no literal doctrines of not being bigoted.

I never mentioned being bigoted, I said that taking things too literally leads to fundamentalism, so we should criticise the doctrines that lead to it to prevent fundamentalism.

For example, consider the prohibitions on homosexuality in the Bible. A lot of people, who I would happen to believe, say it merely prohibits male prostitution, and that this was done to prevent the spread of disease, just like circumcision. Just as circumcision is no longer relevant, preventing homosexuality because it could lead to diseases is no longer relevant, because we have the technology and the knowledge to protect against and treat them. On the other hand, there are those who think this prohibition makes it okay to kill gays, or that circumcision must always be preformed.

That is what I mean by fundamentalism and criticising doctrines.

[Gauthier]

Making jokes about islam is seen as islamophobia and racism but jokes about christians and jews freedom of expression. That's the thing that I wanted to point out.

Strange, I thought calling for bans on Muslim refugees, advocating muslim free zones, and accusing all Muslims are rapists and murderers was islamophobia.

No silly, those are all jokes!

[Lost heros]

Strange, I thought calling for bans on Muslim refugees, advocating muslim free zones, and accusing all Muslims are rapists and murderers was islamophobia.

That's the bullshit you run into when trying to highlight problem. Of course you picked the worst things that have been said in recent times. I could pick things around the world said about Christians and Jews also but this is pointless.

What is the problem that apparently spews that bullshit? And you could, and I as well as others would probably condemn it as well as bigoted.

[Aggicificicerous]

I like how all the Balkans and Ukraine are depicted as "No War".

Technically there isn't war in the Balkans and west/central Ukraine.

Yeah, good thing the Balkans haven't featured a, oh let's say Christian, majority group slaughtering a, perhaps we'll go with Muslim, minority group in recent history. It's just a powder keg of peace and goodwill.

[Teemant]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/

Look second graphic.

A valiant attempt Sir/Madam. Not particularly relevant to point 2, but a good try. Of course, a somewhat higher fertility rate at the moment does not mean Muslims will become a majority, or that the rate of growth will increase exponentially. Indeed, your source does not suggest that at all.

Growth will increase because of the refugee numbers as well because they will probably start a family one day as well.
The growth doesn't seem much when we think of Europe as a whole but it is a wrong way to approach this. Because the immigration from muslim countries goes mainly to Western Europe not Eastern Europe. When we exclude Eastern European population in Europe, the growth rate and the current muslim % of European population will increase quite a bit.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

Can't we all just take humanist ideas?

WHITE GENOCIDE!!!!!111